Use of hand signals

[IASocFan]

Originally posted by Claymore
Mods -

Are we done yet?

This thread appears to be the place to rant about NFHS v. FIFA/USSF or to explain how the two interact in your given state. My thought was to continue to leave the thread open, and those who are no longer interested can ignore it.

Alberto, I also have no problems with closing the thread.

[Craig the Aussie]

Hey Keith, I don't know why you are having a go at me - for all I know US High School rules may be better than FIFA rules. I don't know, and don't really care. I was just interested that there was a difference. As I said, it is impossible for us to get any 'local' changes made for social 'pub team' football here.

It seems to be the only sport where different rules can be played in this way. If you take your rugby example, rules are rules - in whatever country you play, the International Rugby Board rules apply.

[Alberto]

Looks like there is a lot of life left in this thread. As long as the discussion stay civil, it will remain open.

[Greyhnd00]

Okay........Now you are all really going to hate me.........I did my first NFHS game of the fall last night.......I couldnt help myself....I used some signals. It seemed to placate the coaches and it really doesnt take that much time....I am going to try it some more before I stand by my old assertion that I am against it.

[whipple]

Well, Grey, join the club. After a week of scrimmages, I had my first regular game of the season yesterday as well. I have been trying to use the signals jsut to make sure I am comfortable with them. However, in MA at least, there has been no mention of them in our most recent newsletter, nor do any of our brother or sister officials seem to be paying much attention.

The funny thing I am experiencing is that no-one seems to notice them. When you blow the whistle, make the signal, and show direction, the players aren't watching for a signal, neither are the coaches,they are looking at the game and the opponents.

To illustrate, this past weekend I worked a little jamboree/scrimmage where four boys varisty teams did a round robin and before his game, one of the coaches asked me if I would be giving the signals. I made sure to clearly signal every call. After the game I asked him whether they had help and, he admitted that, aside from the direction of the throws, he had not been aware that I had made any signals at all.

It should be an interesting season.

[Greyhnd00]

Originally posted by whipple
Well, Grey, join the club. After a week of scrimmages, I had my first regular game of the season yesterday as well. I have been trying to use the signals jsut to make sure I am comfortable with them. However, in MA at least, there has been no mention of them in our most recent newsletter, nor do any of our brother or sister officials seem to be paying much attention.

The funny thing I am experiencing is that no-one seems to notice them. When you blow the whistle, make the signal, and show direction, the players aren't watching for a signal, neither are the coaches,they are looking at the game and the opponents.

To illustrate, this past weekend I worked a little jamboree/scrimmage where four boys varisty teams did a round robin and before his game, one of the coaches asked me if I would be giving the signals. I made sure to clearly signal every call. After the game I asked him whether they had help and, he admitted that, aside from the direction of the throws, he had not been aware that I had made any signals at all.

It should be an interesting season.
I had a similar experience with the easy/obvious calls....But with the close ones they seemed to accept the signals as an explanation.

[kevbrunton]

Originally posted by Keith
But if you simply asked any average player would you like to play for one team and their parents, in a restricted atmosphere of just our team and parents, . . .or play for your home school, represent your community, play with friends, rather than strangers. . I think they would pick high school.
If you're suggesting that playing with the high school players is playing with your friends, then that's where you'd be wrong. These guys spend 9 months a year with their club team -- that's where their friends are.

Originally posted by Keith
You have an obvious bias Kevin, and your integrity is only based on your word as is mine, but I seriously doubt if you have your son and his friends a choice to play on a club team with may 1 or 2 other teams they would choose this, when they could play for their school, and play against ALL his peers and teams in a full competition, with hundreds of teams.
Again, you seem to be confused. In high school, we play the same 16 to 18 teams year after year. When we advance in the state championship, we may see some new opponents, but since we attempt to schedule the best in the state, we've frequently already played some of them too.

In club soccer, we play 25-40 games from teams ALL OVER the country -- literally thousands of possible opponents. Where are you from that your club teams play only 1 or 2 opponents.

Originally posted by Keith
If the kid is more realistic, and not living through the vicarious dreams of his parents, I believe as an alternative one season during the year, they will pick high school. I'm sorry your son feel offended having to play with sub-standard players he's not accustomed to on his club team, where all the players are elite and are at the same level. Sorry about this "down side" of of high school soccer, having to mix with the riff raff, but it comes with the territory . . . and life. Once again, my elitist allegation proves out. Nothing personal.
Well, you're going to have to allow me to take the first state of this blurb personally. My son is not living through my vicarious dreams. I had my dreams of playing college ball (pointy football). I had barely even seen a soccer ball let alone played one until my son started playing. Once he fell in love with it and told me at about age 11 that his (note HIS, not mine) dream was to play for the US National Team, I started doing the best I could do as a parent to provide him that opportunity. Now, he's probably never going to play for the Nats, but he is garnering some interest from colleges and may be good enough to make it to the pro level if he keeps working at it.

Saying that he should play soccer with the riff raff (your term, not mine) is like saying that someone smart enough to get a degree at MIT should be going to the local community college. Life is about striving to be your best. I don't call that elitist -- I call that setting goals and reaching for them.

[kevbrunton]

Originally posted by Greyhnd00
Okay........Now you are all really going to hate me.........I did my first NFHS game of the fall last night.......I couldnt help myself....I used some signals. It seemed to placate the coaches and it really doesnt take that much time....I am going to try it some more before I stand by my old assertion that I am against it.

I've got 15 HS games under my belt this season. In the first 4 or 5, I was trying to give my signals -- particularly in the JV games that move a little slower. But when I got into Boys Varsity games, I found myself just moving with the flow of game and I completely forgot about the signals. I didn't get any complaints.

[Greyhnd00]

Originally posted by kevbrunton


I've got 15 HS games under my belt this season. In the first 4 or 5, I was trying to give my signals -- particularly in the JV games that move a little slower. But when I got into Boys Varsity games, I found myself just moving with the flow of game and I completely forgot about the signals. I didn't get any complaints. Did you get to a rules meeting this fall? They(MHSAA) was VERY proud of the fact that while most of the NFHS teams dropped the hand signals a few years ago, Michigan has kept them. Surprised to hear that someone from downstate is so anti-signal!!! I wonder where exactly in michigan all of this signaling was going on because it wasnt in the northern lower peninsula!

[pkCrouse]

Originally posted by Greyhnd00
... while most of the NFHS teams dropped the hand signals a few years ago, Michigan has kept them. ... I wonder where exactly in michigan all of this signaling was going on because it wasnt in the northern lower peninsula!
I meant to ask you about that earlier Greyhnd. When PA readopted the signals last year, the comment was made that Michigan and a few other states never dropped them. However, from what you natives have said, it sounds like they haven't been used recently in Michigan, at least not in your areas of the state. Although PA is divided into numerous districts, PIAA keeps a fairly tight, centralized grip from one end of the state to the other. Are the different regions in Michigan permitted greater autonomy to set their own standards and procedures?

[kevbrunton]

Originally posted by Greyhnd00
Did you get to a rules meeting this fall? They(MHSAA) was VERY proud of the fact that while most of the NFHS teams dropped the hand signals a few years ago, Michigan has kept them. Surprised to hear that someone from downstate is so anti-signal!!! I wonder where exactly in michigan all of this signaling was going on because it wasnt in the northern lower peninsula!

I don't referee MHSAA. I live in Indiana. My son plays club out of Kalamazoo (an hour away) and high school in Indiana. I referee club in both Indiana and Michigan as well as around the country at tournaments. I referee HS in Indiana only.

Some of my Michigan compadre's and some of my NISOA compadre's have been trying to get me to do MHSAA and/or NISOA but I've got 47 HS games on the schedule in Indiana the way it is, so between that, travel and adult league games, I keep telling them that I've got all the games I could possibly handle. Why complicate my life by having to deal with 2 or 3 assignors pulling me different directions instead of just 1.

[Greyhnd00]

Originally posted by pkCrouse

I meant to ask you about that earlier Greyhnd. When PA readopted the signals last year, the comment was made that Michigan and a few other states never dropped them. However, from what you natives have said, it sounds like they haven't been used recently in Michigan, at least not in your areas of the state. Although PA is divided into numerous districts, PIAA keeps a fairly tight, centralized grip from one end of the state to the other. Are the different regions in Michigan permitted greater autonomy to set their own standards and procedures? Not officially of course :) ..........the clause "when able" is included and we just havent found it practical to use the darn things in the past. Strange set of coincidences.