I'd better see Martins and Arces taking Bolivia to the world cup

[Bolivar4ever]

:mad:

[Bolivar4ever]

It 's always the same sh>t @!

we're like

oh yeah now we got someone good and then plop everthing goes to hell

it happened with botero, alfredo castillo, and some other fellows like limberg mendez and this guy with pony tail playing in a cochabamba team umm ah yeah Diego Cabrera

Moreno it was the same story

although he's making it up... he played nice in the Copa America.... and maybe he can give us his last contribution in World Cup qualifiers helping us reach the World Cup ... because he is at an age almost to retire

i'm hopping this time is different with Arce and Martins... they are teh future.....specially Martins ... don't dissapoint us

my best wishes for both of them.... may they take Bolivia
to the next World Cup :rolleyes: :cool:

[MrNiloBraun]

Tranquilo hermano tranquilo, I think you and everyone needs to slow down a bit. En realidad a mi no me importa quien diablos lleva a la sele a la copa munidal. Ya sea Arce, Martins o Evo Morales:eek: solo me importa que lleguemos. Este chico Martins y tambien Arce todavia son jovenes y les falta muchisimo para llegar a ser grandes jugadores y menos para llevarnos a la copa mundial.

Para mi tipos como Cabrera, Botero y Castillo son casos diferentes que al de Arce y Martins. Primeramente yo nunca pense que estos serian grandes jugadores en la sele y menos a nivel internacional. Fueron nombrados la nueva esperanza del jugador Boliviano y parte del recambio que tanto esperabamos, pero la razon fue porque tuvieron bastante exito en la liga Boliviana. Y como ya sabemos tener exito en la liga Boliviana no significa la realidad del exito a nivel internacional o en la seleccion. Arce y Martins empiezan a cosechar sus triunfos en ligas externas y con competencia superior a la que encontrarian en nuestra liga.

Veremos lo que pasa pero por el momento a estos jugadores les falta muchisimo.

[Bolivar4ever]

well so you think age is a big factor?

i can respect your opinion but let me share something

so how about Robinho.... and Messi.... ?

these guys are young just like Arce and Martins

no one is saying that they need to learn a lot more

they are at their peak age already...and they have proven
themselves already that't why they are in Madrid and Barce

and hell you better believe they are doing their thing

the sad thing is that we bolivians always think ...

" lets have more time " and then we do it again
" a little more time " and we don't ever accomplish nothing
worse our players don't even get out of South America

the time is now... if they got talent now is the time to show it against Peru and in Brazil
tso that they can get picked by a European Team

only then ..they will learn more .... but that's in Europe ... once they've already proven their talent


Viva Bolivia Brothers ! :rolleyes: :cool:

[CHICO13]

Why are you dogging out Moreno? He didn't get called up by the FBF because of their anti-MLS bias. If you go back you'll see that most of the problems we've had are because of the idiots that run the national team, not the players.

[Bolivianfuego]

Yes, moreno had the talent, but IMO his talent now is more useful than that of the past. His playing style has changed, hes slower now, but IMO much better with the ball then before. Hes grown mentally where he lacks physically, and in the past in order for him to do well it all depended on good service. Now hes the guy giving the good service.



But back to martins and Arce, yes they have the talent, and yes we have a good DT and the backing of a president to do well. For once we are not hindered anymore. Remember a couple years back when the FBF was giving priority to the league and not the NT? They wouldnt release players early enough to be ready to play, and instead make them play with their respected club teams? And remember us getting destroyed? Those days are gone, thanks to Evo and Platini.


This is a different era from when botero got priority, he himself seems like playing for the NT is second priority, thats why platini saw his heart isnt there anymore, and why he doesnt get called up anymore. On the contrary, thats why martins did get the call up, hes playing good and from what the media and he says, it seems like his heart is in the right place.


And yes i see both him and arce going to europe, rumors of martins to holland is great! They are known for bringing young players to the top of their game, its a great league to accomodate Sotuh Americans.

[vivabolivar]

Just to add a little bit, in the past there was no continuity as to the players playing on the team. I hope that this time around that we have teh core players in all the qualifying games. It is a huge help that Evo is behind the team.
I agree with sentiments about Arce and Martins. I'm not worried about their age, they will get better with experience and scorring in Brazil (which you know there's a ton of preasure from the fans) is huge. We need both of them (together) for most if not all the matches.
We do still need that number 10. What do u guys think about nacho filling that role. I know everyone is more inclined to say Moreno, I would agree, but the question is who would be available from here until the end of qualifiers.

What i love about Moreno and is more evident this and the year before is that he has great vision to make that lob pass or threading the needle. He is dangerous enough to attract defenders and possibly leaving the attacker open. We know that both Arce and Martins can finish.

The key is consitancy in all aspects, from same players playing together to actually making goals.

My biggest worry to be honest is goalkeeping. we dont have a good number one and we dont know who can really be good keeping post. I really liked the kid from teh U20 i wish he would've gotten opps to show what he can do.

[MrNiloBraun]

The situation with Moreno is completely different to those of other guys like Botero, Castillo, etc. Moreno didn't get the chances he deserved in his prime and like Chico mentioned that had much more to do with FBF's bias against MLS than his form. I also think the comparison of guys like Robinho or Messi to our guys is not only ridiculous but unfair, and no I don't think it's an age factor but rather a development one.

The reason no one is saying guys like Robinho, Messi etc need to learn more is because their development as players is light years ahead of our guys. These two you mentioned have been competing against superior opponents for very long, they've played international tournaments and play for clubs under tremendous pressure. We've seen these guys coming since they were kids. Our guys, especially Martins, came out of nowhere. Between the 2 of them they barely have 10 starts combined for their respective teams, and when they were in Bolivia they didn't exactly light the league on fire. So yes I do say give them time, not because of age but because their development as players in professional high pressure situations has just began.

[Bolivianfuego]

IMO guys like arce, and martins have the tools to be awsome, it just takes the next stepping stone from here to develop into our robinho or a messi, or hell a Farfan(great example, didnt do shit for peru in CA but is awsome with PSV), or Pizarro. Those guys are better comparisons.


When you have talent like they do, it doesnt matter if your from brasil or not the talent is there, its all on them whether they can perform when they are picked up by a mid level european side, or say a PSV as they love shopping the SA market. Diego Tardelli, Farfan, Edison Mendez, etc.

Hopefully martins can show what hes made of in the libertadores like M. Fernanfez from chile. Or robinho for Santos. And hopefully him and Arce show the world wats up with these up and coming matches for bolivia.



And back on Moreno, IMO yes he was snuffed by bolivia, back then. But it doesnt matter. Big deal he didnt play for bolivia, we sucked after 99 up. Our 97 Copa america final team was done, they all were too old, and the only guy at that time still doing ok was Baldivieso. Even etch' couldnt cut it anymore with bolivia. Not becasue he wasnt good enough, but because there was no chemistry since he didnt play in bolivia, and the FBF gave no time for the outside players to integrate. But back to moreno, he is like argentina with redondo, in the sense he didnt do much with Arg. but more with Real madrid. Thats what moreno did, with DC... and finally is getting his due respects. But like i said above Moreno is a different player than he was, there is already new morenos in arce and Martins. He now has changed his playing style more like what etcheverry used to play like. A pulled back forward, who could still make runs but does more through balls than shots on goal unless he has the opp. to do so.


Im mumbling on right now but just read what i wrote. I speak the truth.

[Bolivar4ever]

Mr nilo brown


i think that you are trying to impose your opinion on all of us

so for you talent is something that you make ...not something that you're born with

here you are talking about Robinho and Messi that the comparison is ridiculous..and unfair
but yet you forget they are human beings just as Arce and Martings

you're telling us that playing against big opponents ..playing with a lot of pressure etc ... is the reason great players are made....

so we can say that Maradona was great because what? back then ..did they also had inferior leagues?
did Pele got a lot of training agaisnt big opponents ?
big leagues? nope... he even played in the Cosmos Club in USA...
so if it seems a lot of pressure to you...those stadiums barely got half filled

when you can play ball...you can play ball...
when you can play the piano...you can play the piono

talent is something you are born with...and then maybe you can polish it a bit

does a musician.... get better with a lot of training ?

so according to you ... a lot of Bolivians who play zamponas..etc
can become the Kjarkas

i tend to believe that these guys had the talent..they were good at it

you don't give talent to someone.... you can only make the person who has already talent... more efficient

by the time your time is up... they (martins and arce) will be Jaime Morenos age... don't wait that long... :rolleyes:

[MrNiloBraun]

Mr nilo brown

i think that you are trying to impose your opinion on all of us

so for you talent is something that you make ...not something that you're born with

you're telling us that playing against big opponents ..playing with a lot of pressure etc ... is the reason great players are made....

so according to you ... a lot of Bolivians who play zamponas..etc
can become the Kjarkas


Wow, talk about missing my point and putting words in my mouth:eek:
I'll stop "imposing" my opinion on everyone and we'll agree to disagree.

[Bolivianfuego]

Reminds me of the jaime moreno playing on the copa america squad thread..... i'll call it again. Martins will be a beast wed.

Watch i called it with moreno and now im calling it with Martins.

I think this squad has the talent and motivation with Sanchez as coach to get us to south africa, and Evo who has stated he wants bolivia to make it to the next world cup to show that we still got it.

[Bolivar4ever]

Mr Nilo Brown

why don't we stop the indifferences

i don't wanna argue with a patriot of mine
and probably you feel the same way

i guess the only good thing is that both
of us want the best for the National Team

it doesn't matter if we have different ways for it

only time will show... what happens..

for now


VIVA BOLIVIA BROTHERS ! :rolleyes:


but lets keep sharing opinions
everybody here has a story to share
and thats the best part :cool:

[Pzygote]

I see many of the points already mentioned - talent is a factor, experience is a factor, pressure, opponents, desires, etc, etc.

Martins and Arce are potentially the best we've got at the moment - will they be enough? Will they be inspired? Will our strengths outmatch our opponents? Time will tell. Martins is a compelling player (his height, vision, buen momento, etc) - Arce will probably try to keep up and he does try on the field. Overall, with a prendido Raldes, Garcia, J. Moreno, Alvarez, Darwin, Martins, Arce, and a super prendido #1, etc we've got the material and we've demonstrated that we now have the garra but that is not enough - we need the results. Viva Bolivia Karajo!!! (they don't like the C's around here!)