Roster and Tactics discussion [R]

[tigerdave]

I only put the R in there in case anyone puts results in here. What I'm hoping is that we can evaluate the tactics and the roster over the course of the season in this thread and see what we armchair managers think of what's going on.

Here is our official roster (29 players) as of the transfer window slamming shut:

Goalkeepers:

1 Shay Given
13 Steve Harper
34 Fraser Forster
40 Tim Krul (on loan to Falkirk until 1 Jan 2008)

Defenders:

2 Stephen Carr
3 José Enrique Sánchez Díaz
4 David Rozehnal
6 Claudio Cacapa
21 Habib Beye
26 Peter Ramage (major knee injury, likely out for season)
27 Steven Taylor
30 David Edgar
33 Celestine Babayaro
-- Abdoulaye Diagne-Faye

Midfielders:

5 Belozoglu Emre
7 Joey Barton (metatarsal injury, out until mid-Sept.)
11 Damien Duff (knee injury, out until at least Oct.)
14 Charles N'Zogbia
16 James Milner
20 Nijtap Geremi
22 Nicky Butt
35 Matty Pattison
37 James Troisi

Forwards:

9 Obafemi Martins
10 Michael Owen
17 Alan Smith
23 Shola Ameobi
32 Mark Viduka
39 Andy Carroll (on loan to Preston until 1 Jan 2008)


So, with that in mind...start forming your starting XI and best formations/tactics!

[ZoomVT]

This is what i would like to see:


Given

Taylor Rozenhal Beye Jose Enrique

Milner Butt Geremi Nzgobia

Barton

Martins Owen



Its what i would liek to see. Interestingloy enough we have a lot of exchangeable piees in the back; so i wouldnt mind seeing Cacapa thrown in themix to give othes a break; as well as bringing Geremi back if need be. I think we are finally in a situation were the level of quality in our bench is pretty consistent with our starters (except for Carr)...
As far as the middle; i think that Smith has to come up front and not in the midfield. he could possibly do th job on the outside of the mid if the back behind him stays anchored to cover his back.
Geremi and Butt can break a lot of plays and with Barton in front of them, we'll get the support our strikers need and Smith doesnt provide; as well as good defending.
With all our pieces in place, we wont need a target man to boot it to as we will have much better quality in key positions... Milner and Nzgo can play into Bartons feet and/or Owen/Martins feet as well. we should be keeping the ball on the ground for the most part.
Personally i dont like the target man up top. Makes it easy to defend IMO. Knocking the bal around the defence is a better strategy. The big man can come in for a midfielder when we must score in the last 30 mins of the game; we would be going with 3 strikers plus the attacking midfielder (Barton). Sacrificing a midfielder (Geremi or Butt).

What do you guys think?


PS. Our midfield looks kind of thin; would have loved to see Nobby stay as Troisi and Pattison may not be ready yet...

[bburgarelli]

Considering the injuries, I have the following in mind:


José Zogs
Rozenhall Butt Martins
Given Caçapa Geremi Owen
Taylor Milner


But, my ideal lineup would be:


José Zogs
Rozenhall Emre Martins
Given Caçapa Barton Owen
Taylor Milner

[Dirt McGirt]

I don't want to see Geremi and Butt in the midfield together unless we're playing one of the big 4.

Alan Smith is useless as a midfielder and I suppose he was brought in for cover in case Martins or Owen left. I would prefer to see him play as a withdrawn striker or a target forward in Vidukas absences.

We look much better in a 4-4-2


i don't believe we always need a big forward/little forward all the time. I think a Martins /Owens partnership would slash some teams backlines.


Beye Cacapa Rozenthal Enrique

Milner Barton Geremi Zoggy

Owen Martin

[mplsTOON]

This is what i would like to see:


Given

Taylor Rozenhal Beye Jose Enrique

Milner Butt Geremi Nzgobia

Barton

Martins Owen




What do you guys think?


I think thats a 12 man side...:o

[tigerdave]

I think thats a 12 man side...:o

This is what i would like to see:


Given

Taylor Rozenhal Beye Jose Enrique

Milner Butt Geremi Nzgobia

Barton

Martins Owen




Are you Rafa Benitez in disguise? :p

[colinh9]

I'd probably go with:

GK: Given
RB: Taylor
LB: Jose
CB: Cacapa
CB: Rozenhal
ARM: Milner
LM: Zogs
CM: Barton
CM: Butt
ST: Owen
ST: Martins

Depending on the play of Barton would be important because if he isn't quality I would push Alan Smith to CAM and have Butt/Geremi play DM. In that case I might also drop Owen/Martins for Viduka depending on their form. Now I really haven't seen Beye, Rozenhal, Cacapa play enough so a lot in the future will depend on how I view their form. We have a lot of depth which is extremely nice.

Another situation is that I would drop Barton and put Emre in the middle with Geremi or Butt. We have a lot of experimenting to do if you ask me because we still can't be 100% sure what works the best. I'd hate to see us stick to big man little man up top though because I think we can effectively switch that up.

[mdfc]

Man, all I know is it's nice to have options! That's why this could be a cup run year. Even with Arsenal in the CC, they tend to put their younglings out there for that competition. Get past that one and we could be on our way!

[JaredSS07]

Even thought Owen and Martins are our most gifted strikers, I dont think we would be able to get them service. Because we don't have a strong short passing game in the midfield, i think we still need a big target man. I really like the idea of subbing Martins and Owen in for each other is a good way to keep them both fit.

Shola
Martins/Owen
Milner
Zog Barton
Butt/Geremi
Enrique Beye
Taylor Cacapa/Roz
Given

[toon_soldier_86]

---------------------------given

-----beye---------roz----------taylor-------zog

---------------------butt/geremi

----------milner---------smith--------barton

--------------------oba/shola

----------------------------vid/owen


im not sure that the midfield is the perfact choice formation wise, but i am more interested in which players are in the midfield. i do think that barton/zog could play well together on the left, with smith more towards the right

[colinh9]

Even thought Owen and Martins are our most gifted strikers, I dont think we would be able to get them service. Because we don't have a strong short passing game in the midfield, i think we still need a big target man.

[/CODE]

Fair enough but I don't think there is any reason not to give Owen/Martins a chance up top. Martins can hold the ball up pretty well if you ask me, and he is a pretty strong guy. The only reason he isn't a target player is because he has skill and speed.

[JaredSS07]

Fair enough but I don't think there is any reason not to give Owen/Martins a chance up top. Martins can hold the ball up pretty well if you ask me, and he is a pretty strong guy. The only reason he isn't a target player is because he has skill and speed.

Martins can jump for a long ball and dribble well enough to hold the ball up, but he isn't physical and won't battle for a ball. When he gets hit, he becomes Italian, falls over, and makes faces at the official.

[tigerdave]

Sam's tactics from today:

Starting XI vs. Man Citeh

--------Given--------
---Beye--Tayls--Rozey--Zoggy
-----------------------
---Geremi----Butt-----
--------Smith---------
-----------------------
---Milner-----Martins
---------Viduka--------


As I stated in the matchday thread, this was a recipe for disaster. Citeh have talented wing midfielders that, when not hassled through the midfield, have the ability to terrorize the fullbacks (one of whom isn't even a full back!) because we don't have any width. We also have no offensive creativity in that three-man midfield, only two hard men and a supersub utility player. That's not going to work against top-half sides.

I think the major issue in going to a 4-4-2, Sam's hot and sultry love affair with the 4-3-3 aside, is Jose Enrique's match fitness and his adaptation to the English game. If he can steady himself at the left back position, this opens up so much more for our game.

--------Given--------
---Beye---Taylor---Rozey---Jose Enrique
---------------Butt (Barton when healthy)----
------Milner------Emre-------Zog
------------------------------------------
-----------------------------Martins----
-------------------Vid-----------------

Conventional 4-4-2, CDM to help the center backs, width to pressure the wing play earlier so our full backs don't get quite so abused, and offensive-minded central midfielder and a little and large combination. This isn't complicated, and this is the best formation for the players we currently have (are you listening, Sam?).

[Zaphkiel]

I'm actually starrting to see that Sam will not change his tactics, he is stuck with his ways and will try to bend the plays to fit him, not the other way around...just my 2 cents.

[tigerdave]

I'm actually starrting to see that Sam will not change his tactics, he is stuck with his ways and will try to bend the plays to fit him, not the other way around...just my 2 cents.

If he does that, then we're not really that much better off than we were under Roeder or Souness and will continue to "underachieve". And I reckon he'd be sacked at the end of the season or thereabouts.

[mplsTOON]

<plug> FYI: great little site to help witth your tactical display: http://www.myeleven.co.uk/

IMO here is my 2¢ with who is currently available:

http://www.myeleven.co.uk/images/BdBCFDShHbFgNFsnDHCHgfgDCaFCdESH.jpg (http://myeleven.co.uk/)

[tigerdave]

http://www.myeleven.co.uk/images/BdfFgEsEASEDFfhNFDnSngFdbncHFFEa.jpg

And of course, Barton will bump Butt to the bench when healthy, and Duff will knock Emre to the subs as well. Basically, Barton in for Butt, Duff on the wing with Zogs as the CAM. And then I guess you drop Faye for Butt on the bench, and then don't worry about Emre because he'll get injured again. And of course, Owen is in the mix somewhere when not crocked.

[roxbury]

@Tigerdave


It looks classy line up.



4-3-1-2 = 4-3-3 (?)

[tigerdave]

@Tigerdave


It looks classy line up.



4-3-1-2 = 4-3-3 (?)

The difference between a 4-3-1-2 (I actually think I had it as a 4-4-2 diamond) and a 4-3-3 is fairly subtle. You just put an attacking midfielder like Emre or N'Zogbia in the hole behind the two out-and-out forwards rather than having the foil up top with two running off him. It's just changing the point of attack from direct football to a more continental passing game. Which is what I think everyone would like to see more of, and I believe that we have enough quality players to be able to do it.

[toon_soldier_86]

why are you guys saying that barton will replace butt? its butt/gerimi that are d-mid. Barton will play along side one of them in central mid. i dont think that barton is an attacking mid but goes far more forward than gerimi/butt. bsa isnt going to play him as a d-mid, barton and emre have the attacking quality that we are somehow missing!


-----butt/gerimi
-milner-barton-zog
-----owen
---------viduka
or

milner-butt/gerimi-barton-zog
-----owen
---------viduka