Who is the greatest player to have ever worn the red shirt?

[Gino Franconni]

Anyways' with all the pro Beckham storm troopers' patroling the forum here I give you props' for making fun of Mr. Spice or should I say ... Mrs Cruise to begin with. Trust me, if you speak out against him in any way shape or form you get nice little death threats' from over the top deaf, dumb & blind posters' in personal messages' Like I do each time I come to post. Glad I live 3 hours' north of the pathetic circus of Los Angeles now. It's the perfect place for him. Between kickball sessions with the Galaxy & plugs' for his so called Tragic Kingdom (Disney) movies. I'm kind of wondering what pointless game or reality tv show they will make him court jester of! As you might have guessed he's low on my list of alltime United greats'! Fergie saw though the facade some years' back, gave him the boot & made some money off of it as well. True true! In Fergie we trust!:)

[BusbyBabes]

Isnt it reffered to 2 players? not sure. Obviously I didnt mean a guy who his first name is Busby and last name Babes...

It refers to the age of the players under Sir Matt. I read a quote by Duncan Edwards that when he went into the dressing room he felt he was back at school because the players where so young. (Edwards was 16 years old when he signed)

[TomClare]

The "Busby Babes" were the team that unfolded in the years between 1955 and 1958, notably; Wood; Foulkes, Byrne; Colman, Jones, Edwards; Berry, Whelan, Taylor, Viollet and Pegg. Also players who played a huge part were Blanchflower, Doherty, Bent, Morgans, Scanlon, Charlton, Greaves, Bent, McGuinness, Dawson, Goodwin, Cope, Webster. Harry Gregg only joined the Club in late December 1957 and played just 11 games before the tragedy.

[TomClare]

"Anyways' with all the pro Beckham storm troopers' patroling the forum here I give you props' for making fun of Mr. Spice or should I say ... Mrs Cruise to begin with. Trust me, if you speak out against him in any way shape or form you get nice little death threats' from over the top deaf, dumb & blind posters' in personal messages' Like I do each time I come to post. Glad I live 3 hours' north of the pathetic circus of Los Angeles now. It's the perfect place for him. Between kickball sessions with the Galaxy & plugs' for his so called Tragic Kingdom (Disney) movies. I'm kind of wondering what pointless game or reality tv show they will make him court jester of! As you might have guessed he's low on my list of alltime United greats'! Fergie saw though the facade some years' back, gave him the boot & made some money off of it as well. True true! In Fergie we trust!"



Sorry, but I think that you are so wrong in your assumptions. Becks played more than his part at Old Trafford and in the successes of the late 90's and early 2000's. Irrespective of what you feel, I can assure you that he is a top, top, performer even today. You have to divorce yourself from all the razz that ultimately surrounds him and try and look at things from a purely football angle. He is the and has been the business and his record speaks for itself.

[BusbyBabes]

The "Busby Babes" were the team that unfolded in the years between 1955 and 1958, notably; Wood; Foulkes, Byrne; Colman, Jones, Edwards; Berry, Whelan, Taylor, Viollet and Pegg. Also players who played a huge part were Blanchflower, Doherty, Bent, Morgans, Scanlon, Charlton, Greaves, Bent, McGuinness, Dawson, Goodwin, Cope, Webster. Harry Gregg only joined the Club in late December 1957 and played just 11 games before the tragedy.

Looking at all of those players who do you think was the best?

[TomClare]

They were a great, great team even then, but had still to reach their full potential. They'd already been champions for two consecutive years, FA Cup Finalists and EC semi-finalists. It's always difficult to nominate one player, but Edwards will always be the one to stand out because of his abilities as an ALL ROUND PLAYER.

[BusbyBabes]

They were a great, great team even then, but had still to reach their full potential. They'd already been champions for two consecutive years, FA Cup Finalists and EC semi-finalists. It's always difficult to nominate one player, but Edwards will always be the one to stand out because of his abilities as an ALL ROUND PLAYER.

I did think you would pick big Dunc. The most amazing thing about Edwards was his size even when he was young. Some described his legs as being as thick as 'tree trunks'. I have got his 'Tackle soccer this way' book which is an excellent insight into his life as a footballer and all the advice he is giving young footballers.

[Gino Franconni]

"Anyways' with all the pro Beckham storm troopers' patroling the forum here I give you props' for making fun of Mr. Spice or should I say ... Mrs Cruise to begin with. Trust me, if you speak out against him in any way shape or form you get nice little death threats' from over the top deaf, dumb & blind posters' in personal messages' Like I do each time I come to post. Glad I live 3 hours' north of the pathetic circus of Los Angeles now. It's the perfect place for him. Between kickball sessions with the Galaxy & plugs' for his so called Tragic Kingdom (Disney) movies. I'm kind of wondering what pointless game or reality tv show they will make him court jester of! As you might have guessed he's low on my list of alltime United greats'! Fergie saw though the facade some years' back, gave him the boot & made some money off of it as well. True true! In Fergie we trust!"



Sorry, but I think that you are so wrong in your assumptions. Becks played more than his part at Old Trafford and in the successes of the late 90's and early 2000's. Irrespective of what you feel, I can assure you that he is a top, top, performer even today. You have to divorce yourself from all the razz that ultimately surrounds him and try and look at things from a purely football angle. He is the and has been the business and his record speaks for itself.


Not to argue with you but I've never found Beckham to be a top flight, world class player. Is he a decent player? Yes. Can he take well placed free kicks? Of course. Can the man pass the ball well? Again yes. That being said doesn't make him a world class player. He's not even the best player in the MLS if you even want to count that as a Football league. If you want to talk about his time with United of course he did his part but stop & think about the great players' in his same era there that were his teammates I don't have to mention names as we all know who they are. If you or I or my Grandmother had the same teammates Beck's has had. Everybody would think we were world class players' as well!:rolleyes:

[Gino Franconni]

Tom ...


No pun intended aye? My post you refered to was chance's are a little over the top. You have to understand I live in California ... Thank God not in Los Angeles! For sometime there was alot of hype with Beckham here but it's already started to die down & again thank God! If you rate him as a world class player well, nothing wrong with that. I just do not happen to share the same opinion that's all. If anything Beckham should be given credit for being very media savy & understanding how important image is as out here that's what really count's. So if he could come here & get the deal he has then more power to him! I call it the fast food culture here. It's all about create a hype & a buzz, get the people in, take their money, get them out & laugh all the way to the bank counting your profits'! Yes I know that sounds' rather shallow & I do not agree with it but that's how it is out here.


I grew up in Europe & played the game, followed the game & been to many games in England, Italy, Spain, Germany, ect ... So you might understand why I'm not too impressed with what they have here this MLS. Not to be sarcastic but with all the Hype drummed up about Beckham coming here you would have thought God had landed & that's my point. It's been much more hype than actual substance. Most of the true Football fans' out here are from Latin America & you couldn't pay them to go see Beckham & the Galaxy. It's not that these people dislike Beckham or English people in general. They just don't consider him to be top flight. If the MLS were to bring over say a player like Rooney, Liverpool's Gerrard, Chelsea's Joe Cole & players' of the English game on top of their game then these same people would go to the games' in droves.


They brought Beckham over for his image more than anything else. To raise the face of the game & get a few more people in the stands' & get people to buy all the Beckham related nonsense that's flooded the market & then they take the money & run. It's not going to last or change anything about Football in America long term or should I say how they refer to it here Soccer. Your right in saying Beckham did his part in is time with United. He was lucky to have so many great top flight teammates' in his time there as it of course elevated his game. Look what's happening with him now. Nothing special. The Galaxy as usual are having another poor season. Beckham has created & scored the odd goal here & there but that's about it. He cannot carry the team as there's not much of a team to carry. The lookie loos' flocking to the Galaxy games' a month back feel cheated. Beckham in their minds' has not lived but to the bill. Maybe it's because they fail to understand the sport, I don't know but these moths' drawn to light are out chasing down the latest hype or trend that's why I knew all this Beckham mumbo jumbo wouldn't last. Again hope I didn't offend you as that was not my intention. You like Beckham as a player then that's fine. He's just not my cup of tea as a former United great or top flight player, that's all.:)

[TomClare]

No problems at all with your opinions, that's what the game is all about. I certainly respect what you say. Admittedly he is not everybody's cup of tea. Having said that, I watched him for long periods in England especially from him being a young boy,and know just how hard he worked at his game. I know that you have done the same - just that we see things a little differently. Yes, I certainly dislike all the hype surrounding the lad, but I don't think that it is entirely all of his fault. Listening to him this past year or so I don't think playing for Galaxy was the main reason that he came over here. Yes, the lifestyle's great and Los Angeles is where Posh wanted to be, but disregarding that side of things - he genuinely wanted to work with the youngsters over here and it's there that I think that he'll have the main impact. Yes, he's joined a poor, poor team, but can you fault his commitment to them? Whenever he steps out onto the field, you know that you are going to get 100% and more from him. I certainly understand what you say about what you call "the Lookie Loos" but for me, the fans who really know the game will know what he is trying to achieve and as I said, it's his work with the kids that will grow the game. At this moment in time MLS is never going to draw a young player in his prime at Premiership level. What I would hate to see in MLS is for a lot of "has been" jorneyman players from Europe start to appear in teams. So far that hasn't happened unlike the NASL year ago. I want to see the USA develop their own players into their own Rooney's, Cole etc and from what I am seeing so far, that is starting to happen. The MLS is a lot better than people give it credit for and I honestly believe it will get stronger. If it has faults; firstly there are not enough top class clubs for young players to progress into and that will have to be addressed; also they need to accept the promotion and relegation system; and thirdly, one of my biggest whinges about MLS - match officials have got to attain a much higher standard than what we say today.

As I said, no problems with your opinions - it just shows that we all perceive things very differently - and that's what makes it such a great game that it is.

[israbeckham]

Gino and Tom, I agree with both of your well developed posts. Gino is stuck too much about all the hype surrounding Beckham and yes I do live in California (not in LA) and understand that Beckhams arrival here is treated like God has come. By that mean you can say he is over rated because they treat him as if the best player in the world has come, but you are forgetting that that is not his fault. His marriage to Posh, his looks, and his contract with Adidas has made all the media fancy about him, but if it comes to you you should indeed laugh all the way to the Bank like you said.

Gino, the main thing that you are forgetting/Overlooking/simply not wanting to realize is that Becks IS a United legend. He has been at this club for over a decade and captained it/his country. YOU CANNOT LUCK INTO THAT. He is THE BEST, yes I mean the best crosser of the ball to have ever played the game. He is so consistent at it and gets an incredible amount of assists that way. He is one of the best free kick takers to have ever played the game, his passing ability is outstanding. Great shots, amazing first touch and ball control, 2 footed player..... etc etc etc. What else do you want? Ok so he doesn't have the pace and trickery of the Ronaldo, Cole's and Messi, but he doesnt need that because he makes up for it with his vision of the game, and that helps him today when he is in his 30's when most players pace
(Giggs, Figo ..) has gone.

One thing that you can never take away from Beckham is his passion and commitment to the game. That is why he is suck a great player. That is why England sucked when he was gone. Because that very passion was gone. That is why he got injured again a week ago because he never gave up an a ball that wasnt event hat important but he went in all the wya without backing out. He brings that passion and commitment everyday on the pitch whether he players for Untied, Madrid, England, or the Galaxy.

He played jet lagged less then 10 hours after he flew all the way from London!! I think you are being naive and said that he hasn't performed well for the Galaxy because he has been injured from he start, and now is injured again. Except for the game I mentioned earlier where he was jet lagged, he has been brilliant in every game he has played in and his stats do the talking as well. I am not exactly sure but in like 4 or 5 game he has 1 goal and 6 assists?

And where do you get off saying that Beckham is not the best player in the MLS...





btw Tom thanks for explainign the Busby Babes topic for me:D

[Gino Franconni]

Hello again ...


No offense but I just don't find Beckham to be the best player in the MLS. My opinion is there are younger more well rounded players' in the league than he. That was proven when the Galaxy played New York. There's a 17 year old American kid playing for New York who is mature beyond his years with first class skills' that just stole the show so to say. It was not just a once flash in the pan type of performance for this kid either. He's playing like that in every game he plays' in. His teammate Angel is another one I feel that plays' better than Beckham & Blanco who plays' for the Fire but again it's just my opinion.


Nobody which includes myself can deny that Beckham has trus passion for the game. Tom, if what you say is true & his long range goals' are to work with kids' here then that's a good thing as I think more kids' here play the sport than in any other country in the world. I know as I coach & run my own academy so at the youth level it's very healthy it just needs' to be pointed in the right direction. It's the people around Beckham I really don't care for as I think they are in it for the fast buck & they have overblown things' to the point where it's overkill. I just don't what to see history repeat it'self here like they did with the NASL. They brought Pele over for an insane amount of money & it opened the flood gates for former European & Latin American stars' all demanding & in most cases' getting near the same wages' & it all went belly up.


Tom & I are clear on most issues & we agree to disagree from time to time. No harm, no foul. As for the other person here I'm not getting off telling anyone anything beyond my opinions so relax please, Thank You. You happen to find Beckham to be a United great & I do not. This is not war, it's a forum where everyone here post their thoughts' & opinions. Everyone have a good day!

[Shrapnac]

I'm changing my vote to Jovan Kirovski, clearly the greatest of Fergie's Fledglings.

[sdotsom]

With Beckham, at least to me it seemed, it just started coming undone for him at United after 1999 with his marriage to a Spice Girl and his love of the limelight. Everyone will tell you how hard Beckham worked then and still does now - but all the papparazzi and after-work stuff, EVEN if his workrate was still great, had to irk Fergie. If you read Beckham's book, you'll see incidents that SAF just came after Beckham for stuff, like claiming Becks was in Barcelona one day when he was actually in Manchester. That's just one side of the story - but even then you knew that Fergie disapproved of Beckham's lifestyle.

Then there's the club v country issue - I don't even know what my opinion on Beckham regarding that is. He did seem to play harder for England once he had the armband - even the press here in the States were claiming that Becks was country>club when he recently was injured for weeks, then suited up for 45 minutes when McLaren was in town, only to sit back on the bench again.

If it could happen all over, I wish he would have just kept his head down and played his game like Scholes and the older Giggs. Obviously what you did off the pitch, as long as you worked hard in training, should be your own business - I mean, can anything Beckham ever did be worse than having an orgy with prostitutes? But when your manager is SAF, everything counts. Beckham saw players like Ince, Stam, etc leave because of disputes - departures that maybe shouldn't have happened (Fergie even said today that selling Stam was a bit questionable on his part) but did anyway. He should have buckled down - he would have still been here, or would have left on better terms. One of the hardest working players in the game - he didn't have as much talent as Giggs or Scholes IMO, but he worked so hard at perfecting the talents he did have that it made up for it.

[Gino Franconni]

Good post.

[Gino Franconni]

With Beckham, at least to me it seemed, it just started coming undone for him at United after 1999 with his marriage to a Spice Girl and his love of the limelight. Everyone will tell you how hard Beckham worked then and still does now - but all the papparazzi and after-work stuff, EVEN if his workrate was still great, had to irk Fergie. If you read Beckham's book, you'll see incidents that SAF just came after Beckham for stuff, like claiming Becks was in Barcelona one day when he was actually in Manchester. That's just one side of the story - but even then you knew that Fergie disapproved of Beckham's lifestyle.

Then there's the club v country issue - I don't even know what my opinion on Beckham regarding that is. He did seem to play harder for England once he had the armband - even the press here in the States were claiming that Becks was country>club when he recently was injured for weeks, then suited up for 45 minutes when McLaren was in town, only to sit back on the bench again.

If it could happen all over, I wish he would have just kept his head down and played his game like Scholes and the older Giggs. Obviously what you did off the pitch, as long as you worked hard in training, should be your own business - I mean, can anything Beckham ever did be worse than having an orgy with prostitutes? But when your manager is SAF, everything counts. Beckham saw players like Ince, Stam, etc leave because of disputes - departures that maybe shouldn't have happened (Fergie even said today that selling Stam was a bit questionable on his part) but did anyway. He should have buckled down - he would have still been here, or would have left on better terms. One of the hardest working players in the game - he didn't have as much talent as Giggs or Scholes IMO, but he worked so hard at perfecting the talents he did have that it made up for it.


Again very good post. As much as I like to joke around ...(Nothing wrong with that!) & maybe push a few buttons' now & then ...( As you might have guessed I can be a sarcastic SOB!) I still have a burning passion & support Man United like most of you here. Also like most of you I grew up playing Football & went beyond the rec level. I'm still rather new to the forum here but I can see there are quite a few people here that know what they are talking about so that being said I'll lighten up with my somewhat twisted sense of humor with you particular posters' ...(You know who you are!) As for the lookie loos' & storm trooper posters' well ... No mercy! You broght up Scholes & Giggs & you have a good point. Both these players' come from the same era as Beckham & are still very much a vital part of the club. Somebody here said nobody in the world can cross the ball better than Beckham. Though I have to admit his crossing is top notch I would have to say Scholes crossing is on par with his & as a great overall player Scholes is much more ballanced. Same goes for Giggs.


Both these players', in particular Scholes keep a very low profile off the pitch. They won't be seen in movies' or plugs' for this or that as they don't have what would be considered ... That look & image but then who really cares' anyway? They ar both great players' & great United players'! You are right about Fergie being a very tough person to please. He's from the old school & might be one of the only old school manager's in the sport that still is able to function & get good results' at the top level. Think about it. Since Sir Alex has been at the helm of United he's always had, even to this day big name, world class players' under his wing & unlike alot of clubs' where the players' seem to tell the manager to jump through the hoop we don't really see too much of that at United. Fergie seems to have all the players' respect & the one's that don't get with the program won't last long. What really happened between Fergie & Beckham we will never really know. I choose not to believe all the trash that has been spewed about in Football & sporting rags'. Maybe it's a case where Beckham's personality & will was on par with Fergie's which caused them to clash, but then again who really knows?


We all have our favorite United players'. Nothing wrong with that. I have my favorite's from different era's & though Beckham's a much better player then I could ever hope to be he's not one of them. From the Busby Babes right up to the present I have many Former & present United players' I admire & enjoy watching play Football. I'm just glad somebody here mentioned Scholes & Giggs as both deserve credit for being great players'.

[israbeckham]

In the documentary I watched about SAF and united class of 92, and they said that many consider that the class of 92 (Beckham, Giggs, Scholes, Neville's) and you can also add Cantona, Keane, and Ole to that list, as a better team then what the Busby Babes used to be.

Yes I know who THEY are now...:p

[israbeckham]

Forgot YORKE AND COLE!

[TomClare]

In the documentary I watched about SAF and united class of 92, and they said that many consider that the class of 92 (Beckham, Giggs, Scholes, Neville's) and you can also add Cantona, Keane, and Ole to that list, as a better team then what the Busby Babes used to be.

Yes I know who THEY are now...:p


Oh dear .............. that's a sweeping statement for somebody to make ............ i know where my money would lie in a game between those two sides!

Funnily enough, I was back in UK for the last game of last season against West Ham and on the Friday evening at our dinner, the conversation got around to a remark that Peter Schmeichel had made when there was a comparison made by a journalist between the 1968 team and the 1999 team. Schmeichel said that the 1999 team would have scored double figures against 1968 team. On the Sunday, I was talking to Paddy Crerand at Old Trafford before the game and mentioned this remark. I had to laugh, Paddy said; "Well yeah, maybe. But he has to remember, we are all in our 60's now and our legs have gone a little."

I know that I am biased, but for me, the 1957 team was the best team that Ihave seen from United in the time that i have been following them.

[israbeckham]

Ok well I have never seen them play but I guess I will have to take your word on it.
I never knew you knew former players such as Paddy Crerand, do you personally know any others?