Greatest national teams in history???

[Excape Goat]

We have not talked bout this topic for awhile. I just wanted to refresh my memory on this.

National teams..
1) Brazil 1970
2) The Mighty Magyars
Other candidates:
West Germany 1972 to 1974
Holland 1988
Holland 1974
Brazil 1982
Brazil 1958
Brazil 1950
Brazil 1996
Italy 1934 & 1938
Italy 1968
France 1984

[babaorum]

We have not talked bout this topic for awhile. I just wanted to refresh my memory on this.

National teams..
1) Brazil 1970
2) The Mighty Magyars
Other candidates:
West Germany 1972 to 1974
Holland 1988
Holland 1974
Brazil 1982
Brazil 1958
Brazil 1950
Brazil 1996
Italy 1934 & 1938
Italy 1968
France 1984

France 1998-2000 should be picked somewhere.

[dor02]

France 1998-2000 should be added too as well as Uruguay from the 20s and 30s. As for Italy 68, you could extend that to 1968-70 as the teams were very similar at that time. Argentina haven't had a great team that has really gone on to win a tornament. Argentina 1957 is usually forgotten compared to the sides of Passarella, then Maradona and Batistuta.

[deejay]

Argentina of the late 40's, a team so good that Di Stefano was not the star.

[johan neeskens]

France 1998-2000 should be picked somewhere.

I disagree. They were not the best side of the tournament in 1998 and not in 2000 either.

[babaorum]

I disagree. They were not the best side of the tournament in 1998 and not in 2000 either.


In 98 France arguably had one of the two or three greatest defensive squads ever. It was certainly not sexy to watch but it was enough to win the world cup. And despite being 'poor' offensively They scored more goals than any other team including Brazil, Netherlands and Croatia which played the same amount of games as France. So which of these teams would you consider better than France ?

As for Euro2000 France had one of the most complete teams ever, both defensively and offensively. They had luck for sure but they reached a level that was umatched by other teams back then (for a 2 or 3 years period in fact).

[Catel]

I agree (with luck too: a great team must be lucky...). In 98 we won thanks to our 7-defenders base; Guivarc'h and Dugarry weren't exactly as strong as Henry and Trezeguet in 2000. In 2000-2001 we had the best team in the world, we were feeling unbeatable and that's probably why the "Korea disaster" is similar to our military defeat in 1940 against Germany.

98 team:
----------Dugarry
------Zidane-Djorkaeff
---Petit-----------Karembeu
--------Deschamps
Lizarazu-Blanc-Desailly-Thuram
----------Barthez

2000 team:
---------Trezeguet
Henry-----Zidane-----Dugarry
-----Vieira-Deschamps
Lizarazu-Blanc-Desailly-Thuram
----------Barthez


Our best team in the 80's was probably WC 1986's. It was a time of romantic football, made of useless glorious wins and cruel defeats...
---------Papin-Stopyra
-----Platini--------Giresse
-------Tigana-Fernandez
Tusseau-Battiston-Bossis-Amoros
--------------Bats

But of course, the Magic Magyars and the Brazil 70 are behind anybody. :)

[German Ham]

I agree (with luck too: a great team must be lucky...). In 98 we won thanks to our 7-defenders base; Guivarc'h and Dugarry weren't exactly as strong as Henry and Trezeguet in 2000. In 2000-2001 we had the best team in the world, we were feeling unbeatable and that's probably why the "Korea disaster" is similar to our military defeat in 1940 against Germany.

98 team:
----------Dugarry
------Zidane-Djorkaeff
---Petit-----------Karembeu
--------Deschamps
Lizarazu-Blanc-Desailly-Thuram
----------Barthez

2000 team:
---------Trezeguet
Henry-----Zidane-----Dugarry
-----Vieira-Deschamps
Lizarazu-Blanc-Desailly-Thuram
----------Barthez


Our best team in the 80's was probably WC 1986's. It was a time of romantic football, made of useless glorious wins and cruel defeats...
---------Papin-Stopyra
-----Platini--------Giresse
-------Tigana-Fernandez
Tusseau-Battiston-Bossis-Amoros
--------------Bats

But of course, the Magic Magyars and the Brazil 70 are behind anybody. :)


I would have to say that of those three, the 2000 French team was the best. After Euro 2000, there was just this general feeling that a new completely dominant football nation was going to overtake the era. Didn't quite go as planned, but France is still an elite team.

and I lol'ed at the comparing the Korea disaster to being defeated militarily in 1940. Didn't realize that Korea/Japan 2002 was THAT important :p
.......and Germany owns France in wars :cool:

[babaorum]

I agree (with luck too: a great team must be lucky...). In 98 we won thanks to our 7-defenders base; Guivarc'h and Dugarry weren't exactly as strong as Henry and Trezeguet in 2000. In 2000-2001 we had the best team in the world, we were feeling unbeatable and that's probably why the "Korea disaster" is similar to our military defeat in 1940 against Germany.

98 team:
----------Dugarry
------Zidane-Djorkaeff
---Petit-----------Karembeu
--------Deschamps
Lizarazu-Blanc-Desailly-Thuram
----------Barthez

2000 team:
---------Trezeguet
Henry-----Zidane-----Dugarry
-----Vieira-Deschamps
Lizarazu-Blanc-Desailly-Thuram
----------Barthez


Our best team in the 80's was probably WC 1986's. It was a time of romantic football, made of useless glorious wins and cruel defeats...
---------Papin-Stopyra
-----Platini--------Giresse
-------Tigana-Fernandez
Tusseau-Battiston-Bossis-Amoros
--------------Bats

But of course, the Magic Magyars and the Brazil 70 are behind anybody. :)

How could you compare the French 'Korea disaster' to our 1940 military defeat ? :confused: A sad WC defeat on one hand and 200000 dead shot soldiers on the other hand... That's a weird comparison to say the least... :rolleyes:

I agree that our best team in the 80's was the WC86's one. Dominique Rocheteau should be in your line-up however, instead of Papin who was mainly a sub back then.

[squidward123]

We have not talked bout this topic for awhile. I just wanted to refresh my memory on this.

National teams..
1) Brazil 1970
2) The Mighty Magyars
Other candidates:
West Germany 1972 to 1974
Holland 1988
Holland 1974
Brazil 1982
Brazil 1958
Brazil 1950
Brazil 1996
Italy 1934 & 1938
Italy 1968
France 1984

Sorry but what do brazil have, to have so many teams in there? a golden pass? Brazil 1994???!

Jesus.

Brazil 58 and 70 certainly deserve it, although 70 gets so much hype that it has become overrated. 82 maybe as well, but they could not pass the hurdles that mattered.

Germany 70 is rated by gerd mueller as the best one he played on, and if anyone watches the semifinal against italy they blitzed italy for an hour non-stop in normal time and it was only bad finishing and a rubbish referee that kept them from winning the game in normal time. The final would have been 50-50.

72 is also up there, and 74 was meant to be the strongest, but probably wasn't as good. 80 is almost as strong as the teams from that era.

I guess the next best is 1990, which deserves to be there if holland 88 are there as well.

France 84 were magnificent, and france 2000 were pretty much as good as well.

Anyway, the top group IMO are brazil 58,70, Germany 70-74, Holland 74.

The rest can piss off :p:cool:

I think the ultimate matchup would be brazil 70 v/s germany 72.

[nekkibasara]

I think the ultimate matchup would be brazil 70 v/s germany 72.

If that happened we may have seen the greatest display of team attacking football ever. What a match it would have been.

[sidis]

hungary 50's
brazil 58-62 (almost the same team)
brazil'70
germany 70-74
holland 74-78

the best soccer generations of all time.

[squidward123]

hungary 50's
brazil 58-62 (almost the same team)
brazil'70
germany 70-74
holland 74-78

the best soccer generations of all time.

I would extend that to 76 for germany. 79-81 could have been longer if not for absentees because of fights with the board.

I don't know much at all about football before the 60s, but wouldn't Italy's pre-WWII teams be there?

Aside from that, the thing with Italy is that they do not have sustained success to be able to form a "generation" as such. It is more in fits. But still highly succesful and only germany and brazil are ahead in world cup finals, semifinals and quarterfinals.

[sidis]

italy before WWII win 2 world cups but 1 with a bad refs and another without uruguai playing.

i thing before WWII only england and uruguay was really dominant sides.

[dor02]

italy before WWII win 2 world cups but 1 with a bad refs and another without uruguai playing.

i thing before WWII only england and uruguay was really dominant sides.This post illustrates clear ignorance on your part. You really need to do your research on players like Meazza, Ferrari, Combi and co as well as the great manager himself, Vittorio Pozzo.

[sidis]

This post illustrates clear ignorance on your part. You really need to do your research on players like Meazza, Ferrari, Combi and co as well as the great manager himself, Vittorio Pozzo.

why i need to search?
i know all of these players, where i say that i'm not know the italian squad?

and you, you know that the most resources about final against Czechoslovakia and the quarterfinals against spain talk about bad refereeing.

the same in 1938 final of world cup against hungary...

the england and uruguay ausences plus the Mussolini interference couldn't qualify the Italy 34-38 as a top tier team.

greetings.

[pippomo]

the same in 1938 final of world cup against hungary...




This is not true.
There was a thread going on and somebody raised suspicoins about the phrase form Mussolini: "Victory or Die" which would have pushed the hungarian keeper to let italians score goals. Obviously that's not true as it was clear also to contemporaries that it was a classical "motto" of italian fascist propaganda ( as Vincere e Vinceremo )...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWlQ7Z2mv7Y
This is the video.
As i already recalled italian victories over the hungarians in the period 1930-1939 are imporessive:
Since 1930 to the war.
In 1930: Italy-Hungary 5-0 ( Coppa Internazionale. Budapest )
In 1931: Italy.Hungary 3-2 ( Coppa Internazionale. Roma ) Italy-Hungary 3-2 ( Coppa Internazionale, Torino )
In 1932: Hungary-Italy 1-1 ( Coppa Internazionale, Budapest ), Italy-Hungary 4-2 ( Friendly. Milano )
1933: Italy-Hungary 1-0 ( Coppa Internazionale. Budapest )
1934: Italy-Hungary 4-1 ( Friendly. Milano )
1935: Italy-Hungary 2-2 ( Coppa internazionale. Milano )
1936: Italy-Hungary 2-1 ( Friendly. Budapest )
1937: Italy-Hungary 2-0 ( Coppa Internazionale. Torino )
1938: Italy-Hungary 4-2 ( World Cup. Paris )
1939: Italy-Hungary 3-1 ( Friendly. Budapest )
10 Italians Win ( 4 of them away ). 2 draws.

This is for 38 world cup.
£4 is another matter.

P.s.: in 1930 after the trashing in Budapest, there was also an HUngary B-Italy B match. The HUngarians, to avoid another bad defeat at home fielded what was in fact the "real" national team ( except a couple of players ) and lost again a real B Italian team.

[lanman]

thing before WWII only england and uruguay was really dominant sides.

Italy had three very close games with England in the 30's (2 draws & 1 narrow loss). Although they never played England or Uruguay (obviously not their fault), their record certainly qualifies them as one of the greatest pre-WWII sides and worthy of discussion here.

[lololol]

France 98-2000 could probably take on any team in the history of football and come out with a better than .500 record. A nasty DM combo in the midfield with one of the modern greats in Zidane combined with arguably the best back four ever as an unit. Sure the squad didn't score crazy amount of goals like the great teams of the past but really football has changed drastically from those eras. Defensive schemes has grown a lot more sophisticated and of course typical scoring line between good international teams has dwindled down to those 1-0 type games. Think of France as Chelsea 04-05. Sure the 1 nil game might not be impressive from the scoring pov but they pretty much choked the life out of their opponents. It's just another form of domination. People always bring out the luck factor which doesn't make any sense considering it's not like France can alter the physics of the universe and give themselves more luck than their opponents. Pure luck just doesn't make you the holder of WC and Euro at once. Remember the better team always appear to be more lucky. You make your own luck and finally luck is a skill. :D

[johan neeskens]

France 98-2000 could probably take on any team in the history of football and come out with a better than .500 record. A nasty DM combo in the midfield with one of the modern greats in Zidane combined with arguably the best back four ever as an unit. Sure the squad didn't score crazy amount of goals like the great teams of the past but really football has changed drastically from those eras. Defensive schemes has grown a lot more sophisticated and of course typical scoring line between good international teams has dwindled down to those 1-0 type games. Think of France as Chelsea 04-05. Sure the 1 nil game might not be impressive from the scoring pov but they pretty much choked the life out of their opponents. It's just another form of domination. People always bring out the luck factor which doesn't make any sense considering it's not like France can alter the physics of the universe and give themselves more luck than their opponents. Pure luck just doesn't make you the holder of WC and Euro at once. Remember the better team always appear to be more lucky. You make your own luck and finally luck is a skill. :D

There are quite a number of people who believe that Holland was the best side at the 1998 world cup. Not that I necessarily agree with that but it does indicate that France 98 wasn't a side that was vastly superior to everyone else.