Former Players Thread

[zizou555]

I didn't take it personal or got angry,actually i respect you opinions and read them very often.

That aside,everything Real wants they usually get but since Real are the richest club and there are few players that are good enough to play for them(even talent is not enough to cut in Madrid,Anelka for example),the price gets inflated.

It is not stupid as you put it,it is just the idea they got the money so our job as a selling club to milk them dry.
(Aulas is one hell of a negotiator,so it is rather he is good then the buyer is stupid).
Before i speak of Gago and Higuain i would like to point out,while because of lack of money and players who would agree to go to France(sadly not a lot,and i love the Ligue 1),Lyon have to scout harder.
Never less,You guys had Pedretti,Nilmar,Baros,Carew to name a few that were busts and expensive ones at it.

Finally Higuain has not gotten his chance and thus not developed as quick but he has shown more than enough potential scoring very important and beautiful goals,Gago is slowly becoming our starting DM and the oldest one is 21.
Gago will become better than Mascherano and if higauin is given a chance he will prove that he is good enough to be wanted by both the french and argentine FA.

[Inara]

That aside,everything Real wants they usually get but since Real are the richest club and there are few players that are good enough to play for them(even talent is not enough to cut in Madrid,Anelka for example),the price gets inflated.

It is not stupid as you put it,it is just the idea they got the money so our job as a selling club to milk them dry.
(Aulas is one hell of a negotiator,so it is rather he is good then the buyer is stupid).

I understand where you're coming from, but just because a club has money doesn't mean that they need to spend it carelessly. I also disagree about Madrid's selectivity - they buy the same amount of players every year as all other top ten clubs. So prices aren't just inflated for Real - they are inflated for everyone. Every club complains about a "special tax" - Chelsea, United, Madrid, etc.

And yes, Aulas is a good negotiator, which is why Lyon get amply compensated, but that was my original point - clubs buy his marketing hook, line, and sinker. The only big sale that I think Lyon didn't get a good deal was the sale of Abidal. Barca were really firm on not paying a single cent more.



Before i speak of Gago and Higuain i would like to point out,while because of lack of money and players who would agree to go to France(sadly not a lot,and i love the Ligue 1),Lyon have to scout harder.
Never less,You guys had Pedretti,Nilmar,Baros,Carew to name a few that were busts and expensive ones at it.

I agree with you in that Lyon can't spend as much due to necessity. But our poor buys are few and far between. Of the ones you listed - Pedretti was a good player but wasn't getting enough time on the pitch. Carew was a poor choice, and we did lose money on him. But between Pedretti and Carew, we lost only a total of 5m. We received every penny back regarding Nilmar, and Baros was a straight swap - as things stand, Lyon actually look to make a profit on him.

But I disagree that Lyon have to scout harder. Why can Madrid set up a more efficient scouting system like Lyon? What's stopping them? Wouldn't you like it if you could find these players on your own a la Wenger?

And that's my beef with Madrid (and other clubs with similar habits) - poor scouting. The fact that they buy players based more on hype than whether they'll actually fit in the squad - and spend a lot of money doing it - is dumb imo.

Right now, the market is a seller's market, and this is good for Lyon. I'm glad that the clubs that buy from Lyon (at the end of the day, it's only a select few clubs who can) are poor buyers. But just remember that the reason Madrid pay high prices is because of...Madrid! Lyon don't inflate prices, you (and similar clubs do) by your willingness to pay it.

So thanks. :D

[zizou555]

with all respect to Abidal,he wouldn't get into our first team.
He is old and he only wanted Barcelona,Barcelona wanted any dependable LB.
You wanted him off because you had cheaper and better backup.no negotiation power.(you got the point)

Diarra was the man that single handedly ****** Real when u guys beat us,he was very very impressive,Diarra is a man consisted purely of muscle and nothing else who does not get tired.Diarra is special(remember Capello said forget Kaka give me Diarra and i get you the title),sadly he hasn't been a bust but didn't live to expectations.

I m a life long fan of real,we do not buy randomly we buy players for the future some for depth and the ones we intend to use right now.
This was lacking in the galactico years as we bought guys like garcia,gravesen....

Recently and before the famous zidanes and pavons theory of Perez ,we didn't buy stupidly.
Check the new managements buy:first season are Capello buys and we kept what we wanted,we had loaned reyes but were not convinced enough and we upgraded to Robben and emerson ,well age just caught up to him.

As for scouting,we have great scouting but we still have to pay more than the rest,what i meant is because you guys can not compete financially with big clubs,you have to search harder to find gems rather then buy sure players like we do.

Finally i wanted to tell you that the inflation is not just because we can not negotiate but because 2 reasons:information,people tend to know now how much each club has in their books and want more for their players.
Managers and general managers tend to choose a player who is young talented versatile and has the personality to work well under pressure.(the white shirt has had several victims:anelka,cambiasso,woodgate,samuel....)
That leaves very few options and thus less power in negotiations.


The difference between Barcelona and other clubs is that you will never see us or man utd chasing edmilson(talent),abidal(talent and age),milito(injury and age).
We go for better and younger.
If we want to go for old we had ruud for 10 and heinze for 5.
Way better and cheaper that any player they have bought.
(i think you got my point).

Your welcome and i hope this will get us a first option on your star player:p.

[SuperSebGrimaldi]

with all respect to Abidal,he wouldn't get into our first team.
He is old and he only wanted Barcelona,Barcelona wanted any dependable LB.
You wanted him off because you had cheaper and better backup.no negotiation power.(you got the point)

No offense dude, I mean I can't hate on anyone with zizou in their handle, but am I the only one who's been laughing at this?

Abidal was voted left back of the season by UEFA. I like Marcelo a lot and think he can develop into one of the best left backs in the world, but at the moment, how can Abidal be mentioned as anything other than a starter at any club?

And yes, I think Robben would be an upgrade over Reyes, but neither of them has done much of anything of significance in the white shirt.

Look, I'm not trying to be overly anti-Real here, but I do think that you (don't worry, as almost everybody who loves a club will do this) tend to see only the good, not the bad, of Real's big dealings in the transfer market.

FYI, Higuaín's already been capped by Argentina, there's no arguing over him now. To this point, he has yet to validate why there should have been any argument at all back then (he did score in his Argentine debut, though against weak opposition).

[Inara]

with all respect to Abidal,he wouldn't get into our first team.
He is old and he only wanted Barcelona,Barcelona wanted any dependable LB.
You wanted him off because you had cheaper and better backup.no negotiation power.(you got the point)

Abidal is younger than Heinze. And better than Marcelo. ;) He's definitely one of the top LBs in Europe. Also, Lyon didn't have cheaper and better backup and didn't want to sell him at all. But Abidal was dead set on Barca and refused to extend his contract (it was due to end in 2009), so Lyon couldn't milk his transfer. In the end, Lyon replaced him with Fabio Grosso, which wasn't an improvement by any means.



Diarra was the man that single handedly ****** Real when u guys beat us,he was very very impressive,Diarra is a man consisted purely of muscle and nothing else who does not get tired.Diarra is special(remember Capello said forget Kaka give me Diarra and i get you the title),sadly he hasn't been a bust but didn't live to expectations.

I gotta disagree. The man that caused you problems was Juninho, not Diarra. After all, where was Diarra when Madrid came to Lyon last year? Lyon once again ran rod shod all over your midfield, this time with Juninho, Tiago, and Toulalan.



As for scouting,we have great scouting but we still have to pay more than the rest,what i meant is because you guys can not compete financially with big clubs,you have to search harder to find gems rather then buy sure players like we do.

When was the last time Madrid bought a player that wasn't already hyped up? Gago, Marcelo, and Higuian, the "players for the future" purchased last season, were already well known players in Europe. You want Benzema, Ronaldo, Kaka, etc, all who require no scouting whatsoever. Essentially, Madrid ask other clubs to do scouting for them - which you admit to. And I disagree that rich clubs don't scout players. Take a look at Arsenal - Wenger is great at spotting young talent. And Barca are good at utilizing their own youth products instead of trying to solely depend on bringing in kids from the outside. Admittedly, clubs like this are few, and it's not just a Madrid problem. I also take issue with United, Chelsea, and Inter for example.



Finally i wanted to tell you that the inflation is not just because we can not negotiate but because 2 reasons:information,people tend to know now how much each club has in their books and want more for their players.
Managers and general managers tend to choose a player who is young talented versatile and has the personality to work well under pressure.(the white shirt has had several victims:anelka,cambiasso,woodgate,samuel....)
That leaves very few options and thus less power in negotiations.

Yeah, but again, it all comes down to prices the clubs are willing to pay. Demands for good players have always been the same in the last several decades, but as clubs get more money, they are willing to spend it more easily. At the end of the day, if a player wants to leave, he'll leave. Most clubs would rather get what money they can than keep an unwilling player who will walk out for free at the end of their contract. So a buying club will almost always get what they want. The problem is when there is competition. Diarra for example was wanted by Madrid and United. Madrid offered more money and got the player. The fact that Madrid are now willing willing to sell him at a loss two years later (despite the fact that you won a title with him and are close to doing so again) sends the message: "Here, take my wallet."



The difference between Barcelona and other clubs is that you will never see us or man utd chasing edmilson(talent),abidal(talent and age),milito(injury and age).
We go for better and younger.
If we want to go for old we had ruud for 10 and heinze for 5.
Way better and cheaper that any player they have bought.
(i think you got my point).


When Barca purchased Edmilson, he was playing quite well at Lyon, had won a World Cup, and was a dominant man in our midfield. In fact, they bought Edmilson for the same reason you bought Diarra. Abidal was good enough that your man Capello called him the best left back in the world after Roberto Carlos and made him a transfer target. As for Milito, he was a very good defender at Zaragoza and is only 27 - a full seven years younger than Cannavaro.

[zizou555]

You shouldn't be laughing because uefa is crap,they forgot to put in Totti,who was the best player in Italy but chose to put Puyol who underperformed(they left out Ramos who was the second best defender after Alves).wasn't voted in the best 10 defenders in spain.

OK,i will play along,clichy isn't better offensively and much younger,A cole,evra.
Maxwell??screw it cicinho(out of posistion)????(Milan need a hole new Defnese so maybe he could go there)lahm???
Of course Abidal can find a place in most teams just not big ones.
But you are right,i didn't explain myself well enough,we has no potential because he is old and he isn't good enough to build on.

The point is Abidal and by some Barcelona fans opinions,dependable rather than great.(explain to me silvhino s numerous appearances...)

Robben had a recurring problem but his latest injury is from the same tackle that broke Eduardo s ankle and he is back soon so ,we will see if he will give anything,but u did admit it was an upgrade.

I know about Higuain i said he would be a player that would validate 2 FA fighting over.
I know he played against Guatemala and scored twice.

I m not defending the transfers,i mentioned some that were done badly in the last couple of years.but the new management has done a good job,something u do not want to admit.the buys were not stupid they were justified.only flops were emerson,saviola and maybe Metzelder because of injuries.Emerson,we made a small profit after selling him and the other 2 were free and very unlucky with injury.

[Inara]

Anyway, to go back to my original point like ten posts back, I don't miss a single player Lyon have sold in recent years except Essien (who was never going to stay anyway). While Abidal's departure has hurt, I know we'll eventually get that position taken care of. Or teach Grosso how to defend more consistently. One of the two. ;)

The fact that Lyon cut the fat out of their squad and earned a lot of money in the process tells you how great our president is.

Jean-mimi, you are so wonderful!

[SuperSebGrimaldi]

You shouldn't be laughing because uefa is crap,they forgot to put in Totti,who was the best player in Italy but chose to put Puyol who underperformed(they left out Ramos who was the second best defender after Alves).wasn't voted in the best 10 defenders in spain.

OK,i will play along,clichy isn't better offensively and much younger,A cole,evra.
Maxwell??screw it cicinho(out of posistion)????(Milan need a hole new Defnese so maybe he could go there)lahm???
Of course Abidal can find a place in most teams just not big ones.
But you are right,i didn't explain myself well enough,we has no potential because he is old and he isn't good enough to build on.

The point is Abidal and by some Barcelona fans opinions,dependable rather than great.(explain to me silvhino s numerous appearances...)

Robben had a recurring problem but his latest injury is from the same tackle that broke Eduardo s ankle and he is back soon so ,we will see if he will give anything,but u did admit it was an upgrade.

I know about Higuain i said he would be a player that would validate 2 FA fighting over.
I know he played against Guatemala and scored twice.

I m not defending the transfers,i mentioned some that were done badly in the last couple of years.but the new management has done a good job,something u do not want to admit.the buys were not stupid they were justified.only flops were emerson,saviola and maybe Metzelder because of injuries.Emerson,we made a small profit after selling him and the other 2 were free and very unlucky with injury.

Fair enough, buddy, you did a good job defending your opinions, but I'll stick with mine. :)

After all, players are dynamic, their situations, except a few, are not always that stable, as a guy can look the best in the world in one season, a big disappointment in another. I think as long as you keep that in mind with an objective point of view, hey, good analysis then. I only dislike those who defend their club's buys blindly, which definitely wasn't the case here, though for now, I will continue to doubt that Gago and Higuaín will become superstars, though I do expect them to be good players. Of course, we will see who is right in a few years. ;)

Anyway, cheers, thank you for the good discussion. Oh, and I agree that UEFA isn't always right, especially as it is fan voting after all, though I think if Schuster had Abidal on the team sheet, he would play him. Besides, Abidal didn't develop much early on like Marcelo is doing now, so he can actually go on for a few more years, years in which he'll remain, quite likely, one of the best left backs in the world. Though I definitely agree that UEFA were idiots to not have Sergio Ramos over Puyol (that's insane, actually) and no Totti.

[zizou555]

Inara,Aulas is gonna have more trouble doing his stuff when u reach that level ,when you can afford and attract the top players.
You are very close ,cheers for you guys and to your president who has done a great job.


10x i enjoyed it 2.

Since i have a thing for OM,i m wishing you guys a win over PSG today.(but i don't want them relegated,the derby is special).

[SportBoy333]

I was surprised to read that Mick McCarthy played for Lyon. I guess Im surprised because Im so used to modern football where you dont see British players playing in France.

Also how good of a player was Jacek Bąk for Les Gones ?

[Gnafron]

I was surprised to read that Mick McCarthy played for Lyon. I guess Im surprised because Im so used to modern football where you dont see British players playing in France.

Also how good of a player was Jacek Bąk for Les Gones ?

Hehe, Millwall is my favourite club in England :D

[Inara]

I once came across an interview of McCarthy and his time at Lyon. He was a Domenech signing, which always makes things interesting.

I'll dig up the link for you.

Edit: here it is (http://www.channel4.com/sport/french_football/interviews/mccarthy.html).