FAO Dark Savante

[omar_mufc]

Hi mate,

I tried PMing you this, but you're acount was full, anyways, just wanted to know if you were watching the youth tourney we won in malaysia? Its been showing on Setanta, and highlights have been on MUTV. Anyways, the one guy who caught my eye yet again, was Febian Brandy, the kid was REALLY special, he was the lone-frontman, great runs into the channels, dribbling past players at will, tenacious, and he seems to me, to have been a lot stronger than he was last season, he was regularly holding off big players, particularly against Porto and Flamengo.
Anyways, just wanted to know if you have seen the tourney, and if so, whether he was playing like that before his ankle break two years ago. I had only just started to have a proper look at him last year, and so I dont know how he was pre-injury. I assume you have seen him a lot more than me and hence, I wanna know how this Brandy is compared to the Brandy pre-injury?

If you could reply bakc, it would be much appreciated.

Thanks if you could do it mate....

[Dark Savante]

Hi mate,

I tried PMing you this, but you're acount was full, anyways, just wanted to know if you were watching the youth tourney we won in malaysia? Its been showing on Setanta, and highlights have been on MUTV. Anyways, the one guy who caught my eye yet again, was Febian Brandy, the kid was REALLY special, he was the lone-frontman, great runs into the channels, dribbling past players at will, tenacious, and he seems to me, to have been a lot stronger than he was last season, he was regularly holding off big players, particularly against Porto and Flamengo.
Anyways, just wanted to know if you have seen the tourney, and if so, whether he was playing like that before his ankle break two years ago. I had only just started to have a proper look at him last year, and so I dont know how he was pre-injury. I assume you have seen him a lot more than me and hence, I wanna know how this Brandy is compared to the Brandy pre-injury?

If you could reply bakc, it would be much appreciated.

Thanks if you could do it mate....

Whoops, sorry about that. Cleaned it now. :o

Brandy was better than he is now before his injury. I have watched the tourney and I have been impressed with some of our lads. The quality of the oppo has been something serious - we've been up against the best clubs in the world out there and acquitted ourselves perfectly!

Anyway, Brandy. He's just not going to grow, is he? 5'5 he is and he's going to fill out and be one of those nightmarish, squat little chaps that never get knocked off the ball and even if they do their low centre of gravity and instant recovery time will set them right immediately. When his game is put together and he plays like he can he looks like an absolute star. He's got the lot in terms of skill-set and it's good to see him coming back to something like what he once was. He's not as sharp or tight as he used to be and he's wary of having the ball in certain situations since the break, which leads to rushed plays or panic. For the most part though, you're seeing what he's capable of and when a team is set up right for him he's one of those lads who will always shine. His footwork and nimblefeet allayed to his height makes him a nightmare in the penalty area and I think that will be his best asset when he turns professional. There's no defender on earth who likes going up against those really tiny strikers who can dribble quickly and have the turn of pace Brandy does. His centre of gravity is so low that he'll be curious to watch.

Don't really know how far he can go for us. After the Rossi affair I'm not sure what to think what to think. He has talent, not as much as Rossi, but he is rapid and there won't be the same questions about whether he can handle English football from any quarters with him because his game is essentially English where has Rossi's always looked displaced and obviously foreign.

Brandy's height means he could well be turned into a full-time wing forward or he has to play SS in a 4-4-2. There's no other role for him as a pro, imo. He can play #9 very well, but you don't see 5'5 strikers in the top flight of EPL. I reckon you can count 5'5 strikers in all of English professional football on one hand, actually.

He needs a full season in the reserves next or if a Championship club can use him, well!!, then he could go there. His height and the systems played in the Championship is going to block chances for him that wouldn't be closed on taller players though. I could usually tell you which club I think each reserve player should go to to improve and develop. With Brandy's height I find that impossible to do because whereever he's sent I think he'll just be used a 'dumb' speed merchant down the wing. Clubs in the Championship aren't going to readily play to his feet and unless he was used in the way Owen was by Houllier (go fetch donkey) Brandy won't really get a chance as a #9 on almost any loan he was sent on.

[F@ndango]

Nice assessment DS. I have the vague recollection a young Febian Brandy was the talk of a Nike Soccer Sevens tournament back in the day (his performances led to talk of alleged interest from Barca; their Brazilian born coach eulogising about his skills, drawing comparisons with a certain Mr Ronaldo Luiz Nazario De Lima at the same age). When pitched against his peers, young Brandy looks a fine prospect but I share the view his diminutive statue is such that he'll have it all on to make a career for himself in the English game.

[Dark Savante]

Nice assessment DS. I have the vague recollection a young Febian Brandy was the talk of a Nike Soccer Sevens tournament back in the day (his performances led to talk of alleged interest from Barca; their Brazilian born coach eulogising about his skills, drawing comparisons with a certain Mr Ronaldo Luiz Nazario De Lima at the same age). When pitched against his peers, young Brandy looks a fine prospect but I share the view his diminutive statue is such that he'll have it all on to make a career for himself in the English game.

I wouldn't go that far. Pre-injury Ronaldo was :eek:

But he (Brandy) was fantastic pre-injury and he made laugh out loud, literally on many an occassion with his ability to humiliate players at full pelt. He was the talk of Europe for his age group for a couple of years before the break and had been tapped up on a few occassions!

I think he'd be perfect for Spanish football, tbh. Like Jones I feel that'd be the ideal league for him.

[F@ndango]

Utd released a 'soccer' skills video a good few years ago and a pal o mine told me that Brandy was the young lad that had Scholes grinning after flicking the ball (Ozzie Ardiles style) over his head during one demonstration.

[Dark Savante]

Utd brought out a 'soccer' skills video a good few years ago and a pal o mine told me that Brandy was the young lad that had Scholes grinning after flicking the ball (Ozzie Ardiles style) over his head during one demonstration.

There are very few players that can make me 'lol' but some of the things he used to be able to do at full pelt would have me really laughing loudly and he'd have the cheek to do things more than once to make a defence know who is in charge. I don't like to talk about him as if he's a retired player, but the old Brandy is probably never going to return. Maybe the injury has taken some of his confidence away as well as a piece of his ability, I don't know. But he was a 90 minute show-stopper before the injury, now he's more of a moments man who does a few flash or great things a game rather than capturing you from kick off to full time.

[F@ndango]

I missed the early part of his Manchester United career but it’s clear he still has a bit of the old ebullience about him (I enjoyed his celebration after screaming in his first goal for the reserves last year). Here’s hoping he keeps us smiling this coming season.

[cr7torossi]

We seem to be developing (attacking)players with a lot of technique but not physically strong enough to play in the top flight. On the other hand, Citeh have the biggest lads in their youth ranks who might not end up world-beaters but have more of them capable of playing in the top-flight. DS, you see a compromise between the two?

[Dark Savante]

We seem to be developing (attacking)players with a lot of technique but not physically strong enough to play in the top flight. On the other hand, Citeh have the biggest lads in their youth ranks who might not end up world-beaters but have more of them capable of playing in the top-flight. DS, you see a compromise between the two?

Brandy lacks height, not strength. He's really hard to dispossess because of his low centre, but generally I don't see a way of bridging the gap. As I've said before, City relied (or used to before the Thai) on some of those reserves making it for them, for us it hasn't been a reliance in an age, more of a tradition or preference, so we have always looked to preen away the cream who so happen to make it regardless of their build or physical weaknesses.

I don't think we'll compromise on this score at all, we don't need to and as such, we won't.

Our policy appears to be changing now anyway.. if we're just going to take the best players from other academies, this issue will matter naught in the future.. if that Thai fella sticks around and isn’t locked up, you’ll probably see City’s academy change as well.

[cr7torossi]

Brandy lacks height, not strength. He's really hard to dispossess because of his low centre, but generally I don't see a way of bridging the gap. As I've said before, City relied (or used to before the Thai) on some of those reserves making it for them, for us it hasn't been a reliance in an age, more of a tradition or preference, so we have always looked to preen away the cream who so happen to make it regardless of their build or physical weaknesses.

I don't think we'll compromise on this score at all, we don't need to and as such, we won't.

Our policy appears to be changing now anyway.. if we're just going to take the best players from other academies, this issue will matter naught in the future.. if that Thai fella sticks around and isn’t locked up, you’ll probably see City’s academy change as well.

But if we continually have a policy of buying the best players available(Tevez vs Rossi), then we wouldn't be too successful in persuading the best talent from foreign academies to join us if it appears that there is little or no chance of their ever making it @ OT. Or is it that our academy will just become a means to keep creating talent that plays at lower levels and earn some money in the while(but surely the cost of maintaining the academy would be higher).

[Vermont Red]

Or is it that our academy will just become a means to keep creating talent that plays at lower levels and earn some money in the while(but surely the cost of maintaining the academy would be higher).

We made a nice sum off of Rossi and could no doubt do the same with Pique. Pretty good business.

[cr7torossi]

We made a nice sum off of Rossi and could no doubt do the same with Pique. Pretty good business.

But will we continue to attract the next lot of Piques and Rossis if there is no future for them at the club?

[sdotsom]

That is pretty much what the academy is becoming. A way to make money, and nothing else.

I think it's also a telling sign that we have some of the best Academy teams, Reserves teams, etc. in the world yet can't get them a game in the EPL.

[cr7torossi]

That is pretty much what the academy is becoming. A way to make money, and nothing else.

I think it's also a telling sign that we have some of the best Academy teams, Reserves teams, etc. in the world yet can't get them a game in the EPL.

Exactly.

We reach the FA Youth Cup final, Milk Cup final, win the Champions Youth Cup. Our reserves win quadruples. I sometimes think Fergie has lost a bit of his spine or sometimes that our academy training has become too continental in nature which was what my original question to DS was for.

[Vermont Red]

But will we continue to attract the next lot of Piques and Rossis if there is no future for them at the club?

When young soccer players stop being ambitious, then this strategy will fail.

I think it's also a telling sign that we have some of the best Academy teams, Reserves teams, etc. in the world yet can't get them a game in the EPL.

It may be telling, but I'm not sure what. Do the winners of youth medals always go on to be successful pros? How many World Cups did Portugal's "Golden Generation" win? So much can happen on the way to the big club. It is disappointing that more youth haven't made it, but its always a longshot.

We reach the FA Youth Cup final, Milk Cup final, win the Champions Youth Cup. Our reserves win quadruples. I sometimes think Fergie has lost a bit of his spine or sometimes that our academy training has become too continental in nature which was what my original question to DS was for.

I don't think our academy training has become too continental. I think its always been that way. As for Fergie's spine, check how many points we won the league with during the treble year and how many have won the league in the past three years.

[sdotsom]

It may be telling, but I'm not sure what. Do the winners of youth medals always go on to be successful pros? How many World Cups did Portugal's "Golden Generation" win? So much can happen on the way to the big club. It is disappointing that more youth haven't made it, but its always a longshot.

No doubt. But we're a club that's always managed to integrate some youth - just some - into most of our sides as significant players. But if you take out Scholes/Giggs/Gaz -they're gone in 2 seasons - what else do we have from our academy? No starters - just Brown, O'Shea, Fletch on the bench. And that lot will be gone soon enough.

Guess that's just football these days.

To play devil's advocate, I think many have overestimated the number of successful youth players to the first team that we've had at this club over time because of Busby's Babes and the Class of 92.

[cr7torossi]

When young soccer players stop being ambitious, then this strategy will fail.



It may be telling, but I'm not sure what. Do the winners of youth medals always go on to be successful pros? How many World Cups did Portugal's "Golden Generation" win? So much can happen on the way to the big club. It is disappointing that more youth haven't made it, but its always a longshot.



I don't think our academy training has become too continental. I think its always been that way. As for Fergie's spine, check how many points we won the league with during the treble year and how many have won the league in the past three years.

Them being ambitious would mean that they would end up going to teams like Arsenal.

sdotsom has already said the point about "some"

So, in essence, what you are trying to say is that since we can't afford to drop points, irrespective of what you do, you won't get any chances.

PS: a lot of old points will get rehashed if we continue this, I am just concerned that almost no-one of us is excited any longer about our youth teams doing so well because most of us know that hardly anyone of them will make it.

[Vermont Red]

Them being ambitious would mean that they would end up going to teams like Arsenal.

You underestimate the ambitions and egos of young players.

PS: a lot of old points will get rehashed if we continue this, I am just concerned that almost no-one of us is excited any longer about our youth teams doing so well because most of us know that hardly anyone of them will make it.

The lack of youths breaking through is very depressing to me. I wish more of the players from that great team a few seasons ago were with the first team making (or trying to make) their marks. It isn't to be.

[sdotsom]

I agree with VR about ambition - if you were a youth player offered a chance from United, you'd take it. You would think that you were the one who could rise above the rest and and fulfill your potential. So we won't ever be lacking in prospects.

But as fans, we are seeing that no one is coming up, and that no one in the near future seems to be either. In 2 years Giggs, Scholes, and Gaz will be gone, O'Shea and Brown may well have moved on - we may have Fletch still. But other than Johnny Evans, I see no one that could make the jump anytime soon, maybe Chris Eagles but that's it.

[Vermont Red]

I agree with VR about ambition - if you were a youth player offered a chance from United, you'd take it. You would think that you were the one who could rise above the rest and and fulfill your potential. So we won't ever be lacking in prospects.

Exactly my point.

But as fans, we are seeing that no one is coming up, and that no one in the near future seems to be either. In 2 years Giggs, Scholes, and Gaz will be gone, O'Shea and Brown may well have moved on - we may have Fletch still. But other than Johnny Evans, I see no one that could make the jump anytime soon, maybe Chris Eagles but that's it.

To play devil's advocate, Giggs was never going to be blocked while Scholes and Neville didn't have anyone in front of them who could keep them out of the side. The youngsters on the cusp this season (Evans and Pique) may be able to break through since only Vidic is blocking them. In the past, Rossi had Rooney and Tevez in his way. Jones never developed enough physically.