Please Read and Comment

[Telewheels]

Can anyone enlighten me on how US Soccer is set up regarding youth soccer and state organizations?

Are there any other credible national organizations for rec and competitive youth soccer ?

Does anyone know about the workings of NJYSA (NJ Youth Soccer Association) ?

To make a long story short, I am a referee and referee assignor in NJ. The NJ Referee Committee has a stranglehold on most leagues in our state. They have been successful at creating an inner circle of a few members who dominate the referee programs. What I mean by this is they set their OWN standards for instructors, assessors, referees etc. – which are different than US Soccer guidelines, which makes it nearly impossible for more people to enter this inner circle. The committee limits classes that would allow for advancement, and has a record of handing out favors to a few, while ostracizing the majority.

I am interested in creating or joining an organization that can challenge the heavily political referee committee.

This all came to light when my club offered to host an entry referee course. Our course was full months prior to the course date. In the eleventh hour, the SYRA (State Youth Referee Administrator) and our Area Referee Administrator pushed to get more than the maximum number of allowed students into the class (They get paid per student, not for instruction time). This happened after we had already told more than 100 candidates that they could not gain entry due to the USSF regulations about class size and the limitations of the classroom.

The room that we provided might handle about 45 or 50 people, but can handle only the 40 students (max required class) comfortably. We refused to “squeeze” in extra students who were allowed to “bypass” the registration process due to politics. There was an extensive waiting list, and more students would mean the need to acquire more volunteer staff to supervise students, going to other clubs for more tables/chairs, equipment, reapplying to the club and township for an exception to the room capacity, and all of the other things that we were doing for free. All of these things I would have been willing to organize two months ago, not at the last minute, and not for “appointed” extra students.

Anyway, as opposed to disallowing the last minute adds, the SYRA cancelled the course entirely. This left 40 new referee candidates without a class. This alone would not be an issue, but there were only 120 seats offered for entry referees ANYWHERE in NJ between April and August (and this includes our 40 seats). (How pathetic). So these students now are forced to wait to maybe find a new course in the upcoming months and/or years if they can find one.

At a time when referees are so badly needed, I strongly object to the actions of the committee. I would like to start a new organization that could “rival” this old-boy network that clearly is only interested in the needs of a few key people.

Any insight or comments would be helpful. I have some means to help finance the start of such a program, but I don’t really know how the whole thing works.

FYI: US Soccer admits that there appears to be abuse of power by some of the members, but refused to address my complaints in any capacity - stating that the state committee can do as they wish.

[nonya]

Good luck in NJ, they are horrible. I started my officiating there and talk about a good old boy network. If you live in South Jersey it is even worse because you were viewed as a second class citizen from the referee office. Unless you drove 2 hours each way to do some ethnic league game in upper Newark they wouldn't want to have anything to do with you. And if you have to turn back a game for any reason, forget it... you are black listed for a long time.

No offense, but it comes from the top down, I had some problems a couple of years back with my certification class being out of state (I couldn't attend one in NJ) and I received a very nasty email from Vinnie Mauro the SRA who threatened everything short of a public execution, including accusing me (through email which I still have kept) of lying about my grade, threatening to suspend me with the state office and getting me suspended with USSF. When it all straightened itself out and I was found not to be lying, I didn't even get an apology, just my badge in the mail. NJ has always been that way, and they always will. I was so glad to move out of there and recertify in a less political and hostile atmosphere. So, unless you pucker up, kiss the big rear ends who run the state office you are out of luck.

[Telewheels]

For what it's worth , Vinnie is MIA and hasn't been heard from in months (apparently he went to visit family in Italy - sold his house and furniture here, and never said anything). He left us with the brain dead Mike Kodack and Barry Tobin (no wonder a spectactor threw a bottle at him - he replays the story at EVERY class that we instructs - maybe if he wasn't such an ***). I am not renewing my patch or assignor's card for next year. It makes my sick that these guys are in control, and US Soccer admits that they are abusing the position, and then say that they don't want to get involved.

Good luck in your new state !!!

[ref2coach]

Telewheels you may be "barking up the wrong tree" thinking USSF can help you. In most states the SRA and SDI serve at the pleasure of the State Director/President of soccer. You would most likely get further by working through the state President. I have copied the below portion of the "NJ Bylaws", as you can see you should work through your State Board & Executive committee to have your referee administration problems delt with

A. PRESIDENT
The duties of the President shall be:
1. to serve as the Chief Executive Officer, with the responsibility for overall operation of the NJSYSA

4. to make permanent appointments to standing committees with the approval of the Board of Directors and interim appointments with the approval of the Executive Committee.

[Telewheels]

Thank you for your reply. I will start there.

[Claymore]

I don't doubt your story, but it strikes me as odd that the SYRA would cancel a class with that many people out of simple spite. Are there no problems with game coverage or referee retention in NJ?

[Rufusabc]

This is a tough subject to discuss on boards like this. I am a refereee from NJ, and although I have no aspirations beyond an 8, I have had solid dealings with the ref office, and the leagues where I referee. I have had a few email discussions with Barry Tobin, and all of them have been helpful and cordial.

There are about 35 courses for referees in NJ throughout the year, including one scheduled in two weeks to benefit the largest Youth soccer league in the state, MNJ. There are 4 other courses scheduled in August as well. At full attendence, that would mean about 200 new referees.

I think personal attacks, whether true or not, come across as sour grapes on a message board. I am not doubting the troubles you have come across, but I am cautioning you abut the forum you are discussing this in. Calling someone a name, whether deserved or not, is not a way for your problem to go away.

R

[nonya]

I don't doubt your story, but it strikes me as odd that the SYRA would cancel a class with that many people out of simple spite.




Then you don't know NJ soccer.

No offense.

[sandaroo]

Are there any other credible national organizations for rec and competitive youth soccer ?



Ever tried AYSO?

[Claymore]

I don't doubt your story, but it strikes me as odd that the SYRA would cancel a class with that many people out of simple spite.




Then you don't know NJ soccer.

No offense.
I guess not. Given the universal problem of ref retention, I can't see how an organization like that could sustain itself.

[USSF REF]

I did a lot of my early career refereeing in NJ. I also was on the pro-list in NJ for one year (last year).

There is not a whole lot of merrit to what you're saying. I will admit, getting to know the right people in NJ is exceedingly difficult. Why? Because there are 5000 referees/assessors/instructors etc. That problem is compounded by the fact that there is very little in the way of local district administration. There are DRA's but that system is under utilized.

Now I will not comment on the allegations you have put forward. Partly because I know and like many of the top players in NJ, but also because doing so is unprofessional.

I will say this, currently the SRA post in NJ is in turmoil (the last I heard) and no one is controling that office at the moment. I have to think that once this situation is resolved you may find the administrative stuff will become easier to take care of.

[Telewheels]

OK, I admit, that I could have spared everyone my personal feelings. My first experience with Barry Tobin was when he responded to an e-mail when I was looking for a course to recertify in 2001. It was a sarcastic, callous, and belittling response to a well thought out request for help getting into a class.

I can’t say that I am accustomed to this type of situation. I run a very successful business, and I wouldn’t even think of addressing one of my employees in the manner he addressed my simple request in that e-mail.

I also took lots of the frustration from refs in my leagues that could not recert, because they could not get into a class. He was not interested in retaining any of them - all active. So I guess that all of this contributed.

I can at least say that my leagues (all rec) agreed to discontinue the requirement for USSF certified refs for games this season, and arranged for a training course to train their own officials. (and yes, contrary to what USSF wants you to believe, clubs and leagues CAN buy insurance to cover referees). Now all of my refs who could not get into a recert class can still referee.

As far as statistics, the previous post grossly over estimates the numbers in referees, instructors, assessors, etc. in NJ. I have the correct numbers, but I am not sure that I can post them here . What I can say is that NJ offers about 10 courses a year, provided that clubs jump through hoops. There were only 3 courses offered during the past 5 months. Many of the student who were in my class complained that the last course they were signed up for ended in the same way.

I just want to know how to get involved in an organization that is not corrupt. I am going o spare you the "it;s for the kids" speech. It isn;t. "I" like doing it.

I will not renew in NJ or with USSF. I am a quality official that has received many awards, and I just am disgusted by this silliness. I want to be involved, but if that is not possible, so be it.

Good luck to all of you, and thank you for taking the time and thought to respond. I am packing this one up. I can enjoy the game from the stands.

[Alberto]

The problem is that this is not new in New Jersey, this has been ongoing since I became a referee over 11 years ago. Instability in the organization is the standard.

I know NJ best, but having observed how the USSF is run at the national level and how referees are selected for nationals , there is no doubt that the problems in terms of the lack of professionalism and the chaotic structure of the organization starts in USSF headquarters and filters it's way down to the individual states. When we see the USSF's referee program run in a more professional and unbiased manner. When ass kissing is eliminated as a means of climbing the ladder, then we will also see improvements at the lower levels. I have strong doubts on the ability of the USSF to effectively manage the development of high caliber referees give how the organization is run.

USSF REF for what it's worth there is a lot of pettiness and vindictiveness in how certain people operate in NJ. John Zangrilli who is the state referee assigner is just such an individual. I refused some assignments and then either did not receive similar assignments or ended up at fields without matches. This was not an isolated incident. It happened on several occasions. I have also heard similar complaints from other referees, many of the State 1 or 2's. Why this individual is still assigning matches is amazing to me. Perhaps he does service to the Professional matches, but for the men's amateur matches I and many others do, he should resign.

I agree with Telewheels that Barry can be sarcastic, but generally speaking I think his intentions are good and he does the best job possible. With respect to Mike Kodach, I always found Mike to be a gentleman and infinitely better as an assigner (my experience is limited to only State Cup and Tournaments, with Mike) than some others.

[USSF REF]

I know a lot of guys in the USSF. I can say that every interaction I've had with Barry T has been a positive one. He works hard for youth development and really knows his stuff. I do not like that there are remarks here tarnishing his good name. To me he is one of the good guys in NJ.

[MassachusettsRef]

Three points.

1) The irony--and inappropriateness--of complaining about professionalism while posting your grievances in a public forum is apparently lost on you.

2) To further expand point one, I'll repeat that this is a public forum. If you don't think some of the people you mention by name read this forum, you should now stand corrected. I'm not suggesting retribution nor am I suggesting they would even know who you are--just that it's something that you don't seem aware of fully.

3) Finally, I'm not going to wade into the politics but I am going to voice support for Barry Towbin, since he is seen within Region I and around the country and it's not fair for him to get smeared in front of dozens/hundreds of people that might later encounter him. He is without a doubt one of the nicest and most supportive administrators I've met in the country. If anyone reading here ever encounters him at a tournament, he's the kind of guy that is approachable and helpful and you should take the opportunity to get to know him. He also knows how to do the right thing; at the conclusion of perhaps the toughest game I ever had, he was right there next to me--before my assistants and 4th--warding off angry players and coaches (both from the team that lost and the team that watched from the sidelines and was eliminated because they lost). You may have had different experiences with him, but it's only fair to get two sides of the story out there.

[nonya]

I agree with Mass Ref about professionalism to a point. However, when you have individuals running a state wide organization they way they have been for years that has been nothing but problems it needs to be stated, whether in public or not, otherwise it will never change. I related my story about Vinny and his email because it is a fact not my opinion, it was sent over a public email system using the NJ referee email system with a NJ referee email address.

I want someone who doesn't know anything about NJ soccer to be prepared, and to know what they are dealing with when registering with the state or if they try to get games, so that they don't make the same mistakes I made when dealing with these people. I want that young referees to do well and move up the ranks, but if you don't warn them of what could happen to them and give them advice, they will get eaten up alive, and eventually drop out of it. To me, by allowing the true unprofessional behavior of those administrators to continue, without calling them on the carpet on it and warning people about it, just continues the problem and makes it worse.

[nsa]

Can anyone enlighten me on how US Soccer is set up regarding youth soccer and state organizations?

Are there any other credible national organizations for rec and competitive youth soccer ?

Does anyone know about the workings of NJYSA (NJ Youth Soccer Association) ?
Echoing MR, this is where your initial post should have stopped. Great questions that could have elicited some informative responses.

[Alberto]

Echoing MR, this is where your initial post should have stopped. Great questions that could have elicited some informative responses.

This may not be the best location to air one's personal gripes with the USSF or a particular state organization, but to dismiss the post other than your observations on the initial question is akin to sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the obvious. The USSF and the individual States have issues in terms of their level of professionalism and ethical behavior that have been discussed for a long time and still remain unresolved. When you have people with agendas at the national level in places of authority you have to admit that our second profession is not be adequately served. We deserve better than this. There is a need for more ethical behavior on the part of the officials appointed to these positions. They should be unbiased and working towards the improvement of the sport. There is no room for ass kissing and playing favorites if we are to take the craft of refereeing from the amateur to the professional level.

When you have referees that know better, but are afraid to voice their concerns, disappointment and displeasure for fear of retribution, because they will lose their chance at appointment to the Panel or nationals, there is clearly something very wrong.

[nsa]

Alberto, I am not denying the validity of the accusations. However, the only useful response in this whole thread is the suggestion that the matter be brought to the attention of the Presidents of the state organizations, youth and adult. The initial story simply bloodied the waters making the subsequent responses very predictable. ("He's a saint!" ... "He's the devil incarnate!" Rinse. Repeat.)

Interesting to note that the fee structure doc on the website lists a "maximum" fee. The doc is dated 2004-5. Is that still true? Isn't that restraint of trade?

NJ also still links to the 2005 version of the LOTG. :rolleyes:

[sandaroo]

Echoing MR, this is where your initial post should have stopped. Great questions that could have elicited some informative responses.

Yep....let's get back on track:

Apart from AYSO, is there another soccer organization that can offer a quality opportunity to put together a youth soccer program?

I'm from Southern California the only experience I have is with CalSouth (US Youth Soccer) and AYSO. Are there other national organizations?