Coaching the 3-5-2

[Kevin8833]

Hey, I am a coach and am very interested in using the 3-5-2 I feel it gives you just enough defense but allows you lots of attack are there any pointers you have to make this alignment succesfull such as defensive rotation, defending the flanks and other things, I would have one center mid up with the forwards and two sitting back as holding mids

[ClarkC]

http://www.worldclasscoaching.com/

Best formation/tactics coaching materials.

The key is that the wide mids track all the way back to defend, else you have no wide defense. They are the first candidates to get subbed as a result. They run the whole touchline. As DC United found out this year, if you don't have a stable of such players, you cannot make the 3-5-2 work.

[Mr Martin]

What age group would this be for?

The 3-5-2 is a bit more complex for players to use and might not be the best choice for your typical U11 youth team. It requires a fair amount of player interchanging/coordination during the run of play, and as ClarkC already noted, the outside mids have to be able to cover a ton of ground and will need quality subs ready to contribute.

It may also favor positional specialization somewhat, because of the special characteristics needed by the outside mids, the tendency to specialize only the best defenders in the 3-back setup, and the need for a couple of very active, assertive defensive mids. You may find yourself unwilling to test players in new positions, especially in the back, due to the potential lack of cover and resulting defensive gaps.

If you have a younger team of players who are still learning their strengths and weaknesses, and who you still want to move around and test in different roles, you may be better off with a more basic 4-3-3 or 4-4-2. The 4-backs provide enough regular cover to allow for player experiments both in the back and in midfield.

If you have an older team of experienced players who have much more defined roles, then a 3-5-2 may be possible, assuming you have the right kind of skills and talents = several speedy, fit outside mid-types; 2 or 3 workhorse central midfield types; several strong, reliable defender types.

I tried the 3-5-2 with my son's U11 team 6 years ago, to very mixed results. My backs were often exposed when the mids didn't track back and cover. The outside mids often didn't have the speed or stamina to handle all the running/covering required. Moreover, it also turned out that central midfield was our biggest weakness talent-wise, so using a system that basically required three starting central mids was a problem. :D I should have been more patient with a simpler setup initially, and learned about the team's lack of quality central mids before trying something like the 3-5-2. You really need to know your players well to try this.

Good luck!

[Kevin8833]

Ya i plan on using a 4-4-2, 3-5-2 was just a thought, but 4-4-2 will be my system, I saw teams use the 3-5-2 and really like how it can work but these posts came to the conclusion I did that it requires excellent skill and soccer smarts.

[goyoureddevils]

So how old is the team you are coaching?

[Kevin8833]

13 and 14 year olds

[rca2]

I would not attempt to use a 352 unless all the players had already learned the 433 and 442 systems. I start with the 433 because I think its much easier to learn wing play in a system with dedicated wingers. In addition to the points Mr. Martin made, I also think I am developing a better player if he has learned the most commonly used systems. Once you learn those two systems, the other systems such as 352 can be taught more simply as variations of the previous systems (i.e., advance the stopper into the defensive midfield and the 442 becomes 352). But it takes quite a while to learn a system, even the basic 433.

[DoctorK]

I would not attempt to use a 352 unless all the players had already learned the 433 and 442 systems.

Amen!!!

I think 352 a great system for more advanced players but I've coached high school freshman and sophomores who had trouble shifting to a 442 from the 443 (with a diamond d) that seemed to cling to mentally. Trying to coach them into using a flat back four was difficult enough. Two fullbacks and a halfback can be difficult for them to figure out responsibilities, five midfielders can all-too-easily bunch into one another (again, just at this developmental stage) while getting wings to work like wings in relation to where and how you want the forwards to operate can take far too much tactical time in training when you still need to focus a great deal of attention on skills.

At older ages it should be a question of personnel more than a coach's favorite system. That and what the opposition throw at you.

[Kevin8833]

so for best development start out as a 4-3-3 and then get them used to a 4-4-2 and once they understand those two basic formations I can begin getting more complex a few years down the road?

[DoctorK]

so for best development start out as a 4-3-3 and then get them used to a 4-4-2 and once they understand those two basic formations I can begin getting more complex a few years down the road?

Yup.
:)

[rca2]

Yes. Which system a team uses is not that important. What is more important is that the team plays well. A system is just a tool that makes it easier for the players to combine together. The field, ball and rules don't change. Skills and tactics don't change with the system. I would rather spend more time working on improving team tactics than teach a second system of play in the same season.

[Kevin8833]

What about the 3-4-3 isn't that the third and last basic system a player should learn? And if so should it be the first system a team learns, 2nd or 3rd for best development?

[rca2]

What about the 3-4-3 isn't that the third and last basic system a player should learn? And if so should it be the first system a team learns, 2nd or 3rd for best development?

The 343 is rarely used today. In my view, this is the modern classification of the old WM system. My adult team plays a 433. The 343 makes a lot of sense for us as all our opponents only play 2 forwards against us, but I can't sell that system to my players. Nobody on the team including myself has ever used it before.

[ClarkC]

The 343 is rarely used today. In my view, this is the modern classification of the old WM system. My adult team plays a 433. The 343 makes a lot of sense for us as all our opponents only play 2 forwards against us, but I can't sell that system to my players. Nobody on the team including myself has ever used it before.

??? The W-M and the 3-4-3 have almost nothing in common, so I don't understand the comparison.

Anson Dorrance likes the 3-4-3 for the UNC women, and some Italian teams were playing it a decade or so ago, but it is uncommon to see it at a high level today. It could be useful to surprise teams and coaches that never prepare for it.

One more idea on the 3-5-2: It can be useful on narrow fields (relative to the running ability of the players in your age group). It provides depth at the expense of width, which fits a narrow field well. I know of some high schools that find themselves always playing on football fields that are narrow by soccer standards, and the 3-5-2 suits them well.

[DoctorK]

The 343 is rarely used today. In my view, this is the modern classification of the old WM system. My adult team plays a 433. The 343 makes a lot of sense for us as all our opponents only play 2 forwards against us, but I can't sell that system to my players. Nobody on the team including myself has ever used it before.

My adult team used the WM last year in a couple of matches, and this wasn't just a Chapman nod. However, I explained it as a 343 with a box midfield.

ClarkC, would you explain why you say the WM and 343 "have almost nothing in common"???

[ClarkC]

ClarkC, would you explain why you say the WM and 343 "have almost nothing in common"???

Because I was confusing the WM with another antique formation, a Danubian variation often called the 2-3-5! I could not see how two in the back, with three just in front of them, had much in common with the 3-4-3. My mistake.

[Val1]

Try this link. There's an interesting article on the 3-5-2 you can download in the first post.

http://www.grassrootscoaching.com/forum/downloads-other-goodies/527-coaching-3-5-2-a.html