Zidane or Riquelme?

[Volrath]

I thought about this some more...

I undestand where managers are coming from to a point and I would understand them if they don't have the players to accomadate Riquelme or are worried about his personality/adaptability to new surroundings but I don't understand how any manager would not fancy him because of his style of play. This is surely labelling him as style over substance when in fact he is one of the most efficient players around, usually at the top end of the assist tables and chipping in with a good number of goals too, not too mention that he is often if not directly the one giving the assist, integral in the move which leads to the goal. His influence could clearly be seen on his partnership with Diego Forlan which lead him to becoming the top scorer in Spain, and whilst Forlan is a very good striker a large part of the credit has to go down to Riquelme who set Forlan up time and time again.

Like I said, I certainly don't believe Riquelme to be a case of style over substance, although perhaps he is something of a difficult fit for many teams. He does put in some absolutely cracking performances and is obviously capable of dictating an entire game by himself, as well as providing assists by playing the ball short or long, scoring from outside the box, and generally making a team purr like a well oiled machine. He's also dynamite from a set piece situation, and that is an attribute that is highly coveted in this day and age.

The teams who he has played for bar Barcelona - where he was played out of position and wasn't the leader of the team because of Van Gaal - have been on the edge of sucess. Argentina probably should have at least went closer to World Cup success and should have beat Brazil in the Copa America but the team didn't perform in crucial matches, Riquelme wasn't at his best in either match but in both matches I think some of the blame could go down to the coaches (Pekerman's substitutions and Basile's inability to change his tactics) but these tournaments showed that a talented side can build a team around Riquelme and still be succesful. Where as for Villarreal and Boca Juniors, you can't question Riquelme's influence and the success he's brought to each club. With these sides it also shows that Riquelme can perform in the biggest matches, such as the Copa Libatadores final, the Champions League quarter against Inter Milan and he has often put in MOTM performances against the likes of Barcelona and Real Madrid in La Liga.

Considering that he's available for a relatively low price, still at the peak of his powers and that his inclusion in a team can bring a real edge and aesthetic qualites to a side I'm surprised that - even if none of the major clubs in Europe are willing to have a go - there is no sides from Spain or Italy in particular who are not desperately trying to get him.

Then we come to the psyche argument, that Riquelme isn't mentally strong enough and that this is the reason he will never be considered to be one of the greats and certainly not on the level of Zidane.

I wonder, though. There's been a vague association of big game choking attached to Riquelme, but plenty of more acclaimed and sought after players have struggled when it comes to big matches. Argentina as a whole got muscled out of that Copa America final against Brazil, so although Riquelme didn't perform, I'm not sure I want to single him out from his team mates. You've got to look at his performances over the entire tournament, which exceeded that of any other player, and you can't really argue with the way he virtually carried Villareal up on his shoulders, either. Perhaps Riquelme cost Villareal by missing the mark in a couple of vital games, but then Villareal wouldn't have even been in those important games without him.

I think Riquelme could have become a big player for Barca as well, but the move happened at the wrong time. Riquelme was signed up by the boardroom, and Van Gaal made it pretty obvious that he just didn't fancy the player. Riquelme was in and out of the squad, sometimes played on the flanks and just generally misused. A player like Riquelme needs to feel like he is an important part of the team, but Van Gaal obviously wasn't prepared to give him that. The fans started getting on his back and it wasn't really a surprise that things didn't work out. I guess Riquelme's somewhat fragile self confidence is always going to haunt him, but he comes up with the goods more often than he doesn't. There is scarcely a more influential player on the planet when Riquelme is on song.

I am I really one of the few that thinks like this? Discuss...

[Bartio88]

Roman By Far. Pure class. Zidane has nothing on Roman. Zidane has only preforemd brilliant on occasions where Roman mostly just is a semi-God.

[Dr.Phil]

Roman By Far. Pure class. Zidane has nothing on Roman. Zidane has only preforemd brilliant on occasions where Roman mostly just is a semi-God.

wow

What has Riquelme done that Zidane has not

[brassmonkey]

wow

What has Riquelme done that Zidane has not

He's stayed out of the public eye. Football snobs can stand around in a circle jerk talking about some South American matches no one cares about while trashing on people who like a player that has accomplished something, and denigrating a man because he may have been slightly overhyped.

[rivaldo legend]

I think that requelme is a good player but not as good as zidane
and it wasnt requelme's fault that they lost in the final(argentina=they)

[Teso Dos Bichos]

wow

What has Riquelme done that Zidane has not

Countless things, most detailed in this very thread.

[Bartio88]

wow

What has Riquelme done that Zidane has not

http://www.soccerod.com/images/gifs/riquelme1.gif

Sssssssssssssssst

[Hamilton]

Countless things, most detailed in this very thread.

...Just like there's countless things Zidane has done that Roman hasn't

[Moishe]

...Just like there's countless things Zidane has done that Roman hasn't

...like assaulting another player in a WC final over some sister smack:rolleyes: oh yeah Zizou has also been on all-star caliber squads most of his career. He's got Roman there.

[brassmonkey]

...like assaulting another player in a WC final over some sister smack:rolleyes: oh yeah Zizou has also been on all-star caliber squads most of his career. He's got Roman there.

Yeah because violent conduct on the pitch is totally unheard of amongst great players...

Roman wasn't on an all-star caliber squad at Barca? Oh right, he didn't achieve because they didn't build the team around him and stop everything they were doing to suit him, which is what he expects. If Queen Riquelme doesn't get her way she cries and throws tantrums until she gets sold to a club that will bow to her every demand. Then when that club gets fed up with her act she runs home to her sub-par league to be the big fish in the small pond.

[Bartio88]

Yeah because violent conduct on the pitch is totally unheard of amongst great players...

Roman wasn't on an all-star caliber squad at Barca? Oh right, he didn't achieve because they didn't build the team around him and stop everything they were doing to suit him, which is what he expects. If Queen Riquelme doesn't get her way she cries and throws tantrums until she gets sold to a club that will bow to her every demand. Then when that club gets fed up with her act she runs home to her sub-par league to be the big fish in the small pond.

Are you an American? Van Gaal is a moron in this case. Clearly. He played him as a winger mostly. He has to be f.u.ckin arrogant. http://pub.tv2.no/multimedia/TV2/archive/00232/Juan_Roman_Riquelme_232992s.jpg

He is world class and his face knows it. Zidane dreams of Riquelme qualities. Pure old deadly slow number 10 where Zidane was shit against the small clubs in Serie A and not that much better in La Liga. Only preformed brilliant on occasions. Zidane was fcking horrible in his first months of La Liga btw. Zidane did not lead France to shit as everybody seems to think. He was utter shit in the last world cup except for a brilliant game against Brazil. In 2002 he was injured and in 1998 he only played good in the final. (he didn’t play 2 games in the later stages. He got banned).

[brassmonkey]

Van Gaal is a moron in this case. Clearly. He played him as a winger mostly. He has to be f.u.ckin arrogant.

He is world class and his face knows it. Zidane dreams of Riquelme qualities. Pure old deadly slow number 10 where Zidane was shit against the small clubs in Serie A and not that much better in La Liga. Only preformed brilliant on occasions. Zidane was fcking horrible in his first months of La Liga btw. Zidane did not lead France to shit as everybody seems to think. He was utter shit in the last world cup except for a brilliant game against Brazil. In 2002 he was injured and in 1998 he only played good in the final. (he didn’t play 2 games in the later stages. He got banned).

Van Gaal is a moron for not changing around Barcelona's squad and formation for an unproven player fresh out of SA?

Zidane doesn't have to dream of Riquelme's qualities. The only one dreaming is Riquelme dreaming of having the awards and silverware Zidane has. I'm sure Zizou is quite content with his skill and accomplishments.

[Bartio88]

Van Gaal is a moron for not changing around Barcelona's squad and formation for an unproven player fresh out of SA?

Zidane doesn't have to dream of Riquelme's qualities. The only one dreaming is Riquelme dreaming of having the awards and silverware Zidane has. I'm sure Zizou is quite content with his skill and accomplishments.

Unproven… HAAHAHA. Get real yank. Go google it. So Seedorf who won 4 CL’s and so is the best player ever (great player but not even close to that)? You don’t need to win something to be better then Zidane who just got lucky *(brilliant) on the right times.

[brassmonkey]

Unproven… HAAHAHA. Get real yank. Go google it. So Seedorf who won 4 CL’s and so is the best player ever (great player but not even close to that)? You don’t need to win something to be better then Zidane who just got lucky *(brilliant) on the right times.

Well first off I'm not a "yank", and secondly a player who has never played in Europe before is always unproven. Oh wait, you forgot that he hadn't played in Europe before? Maybe you should have googled that. I didn't say anything about Seedorf, and I didn't say Zidane was the greatest player ever, and I didn't say that his trophies and awards would make him such. I just said Riquelme would love to have won two world cups and a golden ball, a champions league, three player of the year awards, and a ballon d'or. And I'm sure he would give up the love of snobby jerkoffs on message boards to get them.

[Bartio88]

Well first off I'm not a "yank", and secondly a player who has never played in Europe before is always unproven. Oh wait, you forgot that he hadn't played in Europe before? Maybe you should have googled that. I didn't say anything about Seedorf, and I didn't say Zidane was the greatest player ever, and I didn't say that his trophies and awards would make him such. I just said Riquelme would love to have won two world cups and a golden ball, a champions league, three player of the year awards, and a ballon d'or. And I'm sure he would give up the love of snobby jerkoffs on message boards to get them.


WOwwwwwwwwww just wow.

So you googled Zidane's prices. Thats nice.

I forgot He didnt play in Europe before. Maybe some People rate SA as the best after Europe?

I know everything monkeyboy. You are a moron. So Pele and Co are unproven. Interesting indeed. You shoud watch some South American footy first. Well start with actually watching football it self first. When you are done eating your brothers bananas of course.

[Bartio88]

I thought about this some more...

I undestand where managers are coming from to a point and I would understand them if they don't have the players to accomadate Riquelme or are worried about his personality/adaptability to new surroundings but I don't understand how any manager would not fancy him because of his style of play. This is surely labelling him as style over substance when in fact he is one of the most efficient players around, usually at the top end of the assist tables and chipping in with a good number of goals too, not too mention that he is often if not directly the one giving the assist, integral in the move which leads to the goal. His influence could clearly be seen on his partnership with Diego Forlan which lead him to becoming the top scorer in Spain, and whilst Forlan is a very good striker a large part of the credit has to go down to Riquelme who set Forlan up time and time again.

Like I said, I certainly don't believe Riquelme to be a case of style over substance, although perhaps he is something of a difficult fit for many teams. He does put in some absolutely cracking performances and is obviously capable of dictating an entire game by himself, as well as providing assists by playing the ball short or long, scoring from outside the box, and generally making a team purr like a well oiled machine. He's also dynamite from a set piece situation, and that is an attribute that is highly coveted in this day and age.

The teams who he has played for bar Barcelona - where he was played out of position and wasn't the leader of the team because of Van Gaal - have been on the edge of sucess. Argentina probably should have at least went closer to World Cup success and should have beat Brazil in the Copa America but the team didn't perform in crucial matches, Riquelme wasn't at his best in either match but in both matches I think some of the blame could go down to the coaches (Pekerman's substitutions and Basile's inability to change his tactics) but these tournaments showed that a talented side can build a team around Riquelme and still be succesful. Where as for Villarreal and Boca Juniors, you can't question Riquelme's influence and the success he's brought to each club. With these sides it also shows that Riquelme can perform in the biggest matches, such as the Copa Libatadores final, the Champions League quarter against Inter Milan and he has often put in MOTM performances against the likes of Barcelona and Real Madrid in La Liga.

Considering that he's available for a relatively low price, still at the peak of his powers and that his inclusion in a team can bring a real edge and aesthetic qualites to a side I'm surprised that - even if none of the major clubs in Europe are willing to have a go - there is no sides from Spain or Italy in particular who are not desperately trying to get him.

Then we come to the psyche argument, that Riquelme isn't mentally strong enough and that this is the reason he will never be considered to be one of the greats and certainly not on the level of Zidane.

I wonder, though. There's been a vague association of big game choking attached to Riquelme, but plenty of more acclaimed and sought after players have struggled when it comes to big matches. Argentina as a whole got muscled out of that Copa America final against Brazil, so although Riquelme didn't perform, I'm not sure I want to single him out from his team mates. You've got to look at his performances over the entire tournament, which exceeded that of any other player, and you can't really argue with the way he virtually carried Villareal up on his shoulders, either. Perhaps Riquelme cost Villareal by missing the mark in a couple of vital games, but then Villareal wouldn't have even been in those important games without him.

I think Riquelme could have become a big player for Barca as well, but the move happened at the wrong time. Riquelme was signed up by the boardroom, and Van Gaal made it pretty obvious that he just didn't fancy the player. Riquelme was in and out of the squad, sometimes played on the flanks and just generally misused. A player like Riquelme needs to feel like he is an important part of the team, but Van Gaal obviously wasn't prepared to give him that. The fans started getting on his back and it wasn't really a surprise that things didn't work out. I guess Riquelme's somewhat fragile self confidence is always going to haunt him, but he comes up with the goods more often than he doesn't. There is scarcely a more influential player on the planet when Riquelme is on song.

I am I really one of the few that thinks like this? Discuss...

Seriously I have not read 1 word of what you have written. Just get a life and for f.u.ck sake get laid.

[phil80]

Countless things, most detailed in this very thread.
This is a joke, right? First you say Ballack is better than Zidane (which I cant begin to comprehend how anyone could back that statement) and now Riquelme? Did you see Riquelme in the world cup? He stole yes STOLE it from his own teammate twice, under the perception that he would be more productive that his teammate (by the way, his teammate was not laying it off for him, Riquelme went up and took it, which is a great way to create team unity). In contrast, Zidane got everyone involved on the field and made the right pass on just about every single touch....Im not even going to address the Ballack being better issue that you mentioned in your other post.

[brassmonkey]

WOwwwwwwwwww just wow.

So you googled Zidane's prices. Thats nice.

I forgot He didnt play in Europe before. Maybe some People rate SA as the best after Europe?

I know everything monkeyboy. You are a moron. So Pele and Co are unproven. Interesting indeed. You shoud watch some South American footy first. Well start with actually watching football it self first. When you are done eating your brothers bananas of course.

No I didn't have to google his prizes, its pretty much common knowledge amongst football fans. And really, dont even go into comparing the South America of Pele's day to the South America of today. It's bogus and you know it. I don't expect you to reply as I see you've been red-carded. I guess you and Zizou have something in common :P

[Volrath]

This is a joke, right? First you say Ballack is better than Zidane (which I cant begin to comprehend how anyone could back that statement) and now Riquelme? Did you see Riquelme in the world cup? He stole yes STOLE it from his own teammate twice, under the perception that he would be more productive that his teammate (by the way, his teammate was not laying it off for him, Riquelme went up and took it, which is a great way to create team unity). In contrast, Zidane got everyone involved on the field and made the right pass on just about every single touch....Im not even going to address the Ballack being better issue that you mentioned in your other post.
What the hell are you talking about?

[Teso Dos Bichos]

I have no idea what the hell he is talking about. Not just here but on other boards as well. The newbie should stop posting and talk some time to read first.