Zidane or Riquelme?

[TKORL]

no, i think what he is getting at, is that most (not all) of those guys, like gago, messi, robinho, pato, and others are geniuine talents and stars before they leave, but since they leave at 19, and continue to get better (well usually at least, sometimes, they don't adjust or can't handle the pressure or get injured or whatever), so relative to what they were at 19, they were still emerging, though they may have already shown great talent already. of course, there are guys who do stay longer, or play during their prime in south america, like riquelme last year, but a lot of the best players, by 21-22 from brazil and argentina are poached away.

I think that is the argument he is getting at.
More or less. Of course, like anything else there are exceptions.

In the end, what happened when Saviola's talent was recognized? He ended up in Europe. When talent is recognized, European clubs will poach them.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Once again, completely delusional Teso. You are seriously confusing your ridiculous posts with mine. If you are going to choose to attack people atleast have something intelligent to say. Your inane motto "try reading before posting" is overused and pathetic, nothing original to contribute i suppose. To claim zidane is simply an aesthetics player, just got lucky to be on good teams, and is a dirtier player than materazzi (your stupidest claim as of yet) is beyond ignorant and just plain laughable. You continue to amaze and it's the reason noone takes you seriously.

Read what I posted for a change. :rolleyes:

Noone would ever consider Riquelme better than Zidane except argentinan biaised fans and Teso who is a notourious Zidane hater (he manages to always jump on any thread in which the word "Zidane" appears, spreading his hate) and, more generaly, most french players.

*yawn*

See above.

Cant believe this stupid thread is still going. Zidane put in consistent match winning performances for Juventus in the Champions League for five years, the highest level of football any player can reach. Riquelme has not even come close to that.

Hahahahahaha... :rolleyes:

Five years might be a bit of a stretch. Juventus only won 2 CL games in 98/99 and 1 in 00/01. They weren't even in the competition in 99/00.

How dare you bring facts and common sense into this thread. You should know that Zidane single handedly took Juventus to CL glory in each and every season.

You see what I'm saying? You think that players are just 'emerging talents' and they they go to Europe, hit it big and all of a sudden they are now considered stars

For every example you named there are countless more than came to Europe and failed to impress. You earn your 'star' rating by proving yourself against the best in the world, which can only happen in Europe. Until you do so then you will always be considered to be a 'what if'.

[CyberAce100]

Dominating a quarter final against a star strudded Inter Milan squad isn't coming through? Just what the hell does Riquelme have to then to get the recognition he deserves?
I was at that quarter final at Madrigal, I witnessed something special. He delivered the best individual performance I have ever seen against world class players all across the field!

You can't ignore Riquelme's intercontinental cup game against Madrid because they came in full force to that game, and the Real Madrid that won the '99 Champions League is considered to be one of the best Real teams of all time.
Seriously Riquelme made Makelele cry like a little girl in that match.

What about choking with Villareal in the semi-finals of the Champions? His penalty kick miss didn't help Villareal. What about his dissapearance in the World Cup against Mexico and Germany(which Argentina still managed to play well)? A lot of players get to quarter finals and semi finals, but the great ones find a way to actually win them, just like Zidane.

[TKORL]

What did Zidane do in the WC final? He put in a PK which malouda dived to win. Real great playmaker.

What did he do in the sems? PK. Again, great playmaker.

Quarters: Set up henry via FK. Which is good, but that's it...

Second round: scored after the game was won.

Third group game: suspended
Second group game: didn't do jack
First group game: see above.


Now whatever Zidane did, Andrea Pirlo did better all world cup and didn't win Golden Ball. I don't think Pirlo is a "great" player, but he was certainly better than Zidane this summer.

What it really comes down to is that Zidane scored a few more penalties than Riquelme, backed by an outstanding defense and central midfield.

[jpick]

zidane did more in the quarters than just set up henry. he had a great game versus brazil (who yes, was overrated and played less than what was expected admittedly).

pirlo, over the whole tournament outplayed zidane, though. that is true.

oh, and pirlo is damn good, look at my sig :p (well, not sure if el pais or el mundo said it, but you get the point)

[TKORL]

Right, the idea is that Zidane was a top level footballer who did contribute to both club and country regularly. But he's not God's greatest gift to football as some would have you believe. However, if you were to compile a list of the best CAMs over the last few years, he would deserve a mention.

[Dr. Know]

That Inter Milan side was nothing special.

Zidane put superior performances than that even in his old age, like aganst Brazil in WC 06.

Yeah and that Brasil side was brilliant :rolleyes:.

How about comparing the quality of players Riquelme played with at Villarreal with the ones Zidane played with inthe WC.

Edit: I'm hardly close-minded, I normally change my opinion if presented with a strong argument that is well-reasoned.

ROFLMAO!!! Good one.

[Moishe]

I would put anyone under age 23 as an emerging talent. You're clearly forgetting one thing: top players = talent + top level experience/success. Once they get to europe and succeed, they verifiably have both.


I'm curious, you admit that the best South American players go to Europe, but I ask you, what does that leave South America?

South America still has some of the most entertaining futbol in the world as well as the income of selling players to continue making european futbol what it is.

[Moishe]

What about choking with Villareal in the semi-finals of the Champions? His penalty kick miss didn't help Villareal. What about his dissapearance in the World Cup against Mexico and Germany(which Argentina still managed to play well)? A lot of players get to quarter finals and semi finals, but the great ones find a way to actually win them, just like Zidane.

You didn't watch any of those games did you?:rolleyes:

[TKORL]

South America still has some of the most entertaining futbol in the world as well as the income of selling players to continue making european futbol what it is.
Entertaining is a matter of taste, however his argument was that talent in S.America is at least equal to that in Europe, which was the point I was refuting.

[User Name]

What did Zidane do in the WC final? He put in a PK which malouda dived to win. Real great playmaker.

[quote=TKORL;12685280] What did he do in the sems? PK. Again, great playmaker.

He was highly influential in that game against Portugal.

Quarters: Set up henry via FK. Which is good, but that's it...

YOu just lost all credibility there, thats it? how about this http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tvZwirDVouI&mode=related&search=



Game was won? 2-1 going into injury time. You are either bending facts for your cause or you are hopeless. Zidane killed the game in extra time with a brilliantly executed goal.

Third group game: suspended
[quote=TKORL;12685280] Second group game: didn't do jack
First group game: see above.

Even an over the hill, old, physically and mentally exausted Zidane was still the only player making things happen in those drudgy games. The whole team started flat. But no matter how bad Zidane plays, as the commentator on ITV said, 'even when he is playing bad he is still open for passes and looking for plays'.

[bosterosoy]

Entertaining is a matter of taste, however his argument was that talent in S.America is at least equal to that in Europe, which was the point I was refuting.

im saying that the teams in South America are at least equal to those in Europe

[User Name]

im saying that the teams in South America are at least equal to those in Europe

Nonsense, the premier European teams such as the (AC-Inter)- Milan Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester United and Chelsea have the cream of the crop of the entire world on their rosters and that includes the best South American players.

South American teams might win knock of games like the toyata cup or whatever that crap is called nowadays but then MLS All stars beat Chelsea.

The only way to judge is on player rosters and in that respect top European teams are the pinnacle of world football.

[User Name]

Back to the subject, Zidane's goal Vs Bayer Leverkusen in the 2002 CL final.


The precision, timing and out of this world technical execution of that volley betters anything Riquelme has ever done or will do, ever.

[Dr. Know]

South American teams might win knock of games like the toyata cup or whatever that crap is called nowadays but then MLS All stars beat Chelsea.


Are you seriously trying to compare the Intercontinental with a friendly that was played in the USA? Are you that stupid?

The precision, timing and out of this world technical execution of that volley betters anything Riquelme has ever done or will do, ever.

Something tells me that the only things you've seen of Riquelme are the Villarreal match againt Arsenal and maybe a few matches with Argentina. Get a clue before you come to argue on here.

[User Name]

Are you seriously trying to compare the Intercontinental with a friendly that was played in the USA? Are you that stupid?



Something tells me that the only things you've seen of Riquelme are the Villarreal match againt Arsenal and maybe a few matches with Argentina. Get a clue before you come to argue on here.

Perhaps provide a play or goal that can compare to Zidane's champions league winning volley.

[Dr. Know]

Perhaps provide a play or goal that can compare to Zidane's champions league winning volley.

So that's the end all? I've seen goals better than that from many other players. It doesn't mean they're better than Zidane or Riquelme.

But either way here you go two goals from this years Libertadores both golazos by Roman. The second one was in the final:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ_KfFmepd8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6T5SpvubHk

By the way in this year's Libertadores Riquelme put one of the best individual performances I have seen in a long time. Of course since it was in South America you are going to dismiss it.

[TKORL]

He was highly influential in that game against Portugal.

Really? yay for vague assertions.


YOu just lost all credibility there, thats it? how about this http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tvZwirDVouI&mode=related&search=

This video contains a few flicks and tricks, one incisive pass, and another pass to use width. I remember this game, I admit he played well, but no better than a good Riquelme game.


Game was won? 2-1 going into injury time. You are either bending facts for your cause or you are hopeless. Zidane killed the game in extra time with a brilliantly executed goal.

I will grant you that Zidane killed it. So chalk one up for Zidane.



Even an over the hill, old, physically and mentally exausted Zidane was still the only player making things happen in those drudgy games. The whole team started flat. But no matter how bad Zidane plays, as the commentator on ITV said, 'even when he is playing bad he is still open for passes and looking for plays'.

The only player making things happen? Really? And yet I don't remember anything happening at all. That's the point. France started playing well once it's considerably talented XI woke up against Togo. It was a team effort of many top players, not Zidane wowing us with his brilliance. Zidane played ok in his first two games, "killed off" the third, did nothing of note against in the fourth Portugal, and again, did nothing in the final.

Zidane isn't much older than Makelele or Thuram.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Perhaps provide a play or goal that can compare to Zidane's champions league winning volley.

GA6MTPGg40Q

OMFG! Enzooooooooooooo! He's better than Zizou and the greatest player ever seen! Legend. Greatest human ever! Enzo FTW! :rolleyes:



Note: I like Enzo.

[TKORL]

At the same time,

"Zidane's been the best at this level for years now and he doesn't smile"
- J.R.R.