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big daddy
15 Jul 2007, 08:01 PM
All very sad. They key moments in the game happened early on. Brazil scored, Argentina hit the post. Brazil could then afford to put men behind the ball and make it very difficult to break them down, and as Argentina committed bodies forward they became more vulnerable to the counter. However, it must be said, despite this, Argentina didn't create nowhere near enough, neither from open-play or set-pieces, where Brazil's extra height told, although it was a shame that Riquelme didn't vary his set-pieces.

Brazil correctly identified Riquelme as the main man and they didn't give him room to breathe, fouling him incessantly. Veron and Cambiasso needed to provide more from an attacking sense but both of them failed miserably in this aspect. For me, Basile should have risked taking off Cambiasso at half-time, as Argentina were more fluent when Aimar came on, even though they still failed to prise Brazil open.

At 1-0, the Brazil keeper pulled off a stunning save. When called upon, he was up to the task. Sadly this didn't apply to Abbondanzieri.

I had a feeling before the final that Pato may be the weak link. The defeat wasn't his fault, far from it, but the fact remains he only made one save the whole game, from a deflected shot that he should have dealt with comfortably and he fumbled round the post. He just doesn't inspire confidence.

Admittedly, I didn't see the game against Paraguay, where by all accounts he played well. However, against Colombia, I felt his reactions for both goals were totally non-existant. He just didn't anticipate the ball coming towards his net. Against Peru, he set up the fourth goal by rushing out of his area and booting the ball upfield to Tevez. However, the need to rush out was only caused by him getting into all sorts of trouble with a cross. However, it was the semi against Mexico where the alarm bells really started ringing in my mind. There were two instances. The first when Castillo hit the bar, Pato needed to rush off his line and narrow the angle, instead he stayed rooted to the spot, making it far easier for Castillo, who should have scored. Secondly, with the game dead and buried, in the last minutes, a cross floated over to the far post and a Mexican volleyed the ball across goal. Pato didn't move, instead he raised his arm like he knew it was going wide, which it was, but only by an inch or two. Both times he was very lucky, and the Castillo chance occured when it was only 1-0. Of course, if chances are created it's not his fault, but he should be doing all in his power to stop a goal. Standing frozen isn't good enough.

Today, in the final, he could have done more. Maybe Ayala could have got slightly tighter to Baptista for the first goal, and certainly Argentina were cruelly exposed by one single long pass down the middle. However, Baptista's shot, though powerfully hit, wasn't very far from Pato. It didn't go in the corner of the net or anything. His position was very bad, as if he wasn't sure whether to come out or stay on his line, but his reactions were even worse, he just stood completely still, didn't even stick out an arm, let alone move his body. He needs to react instantly and he needs to anticipate that his goal may be threatened at any moment. The second goal isn't Ayala's fault at all in my book, he has no choice but to go for the ball. If the keeper is going to come out, which in my opinion was the wrong decision, he needs to give Ayala a shout to leave the ball. Sadly this wasn't forthcoming. Even the third goal, he covers his near post too much, allowing Alves an easier opportunity to score. That said, it was a good goal and maybe this is being hyper-critical.

The team as a whole were disappointing but from what I've seen of Abbondanzieri, he isn't good enough at the top level. I don't know if Argentina have any better keepers, but I sincerely hope they do by the time 2010 comes round.

Barring the Paraguay game, which I didn't see, he didn't make a single save of note during the whole tournament.

The Sundance Kid
16 Jul 2007, 07:16 AM
anyone who thinks pato's good enough needs to get their eyes tested. he's nervous. all the time. nervous. in goal you need a calm presence, not someone who has a heart attack every twenty seconds. when roman shot against the post, it was hard and fast inside the box, doni makes the move, he flings himself towards the ball. then roman shoots again inside the box. doni's reflexes are grease lightening and he makes the save. then pato.........baptista shoots, pato's eyes follow the ball all the way into the goal. he stands and watches and stays frozen. like a statue. like he's paralysed from the neck down. i'm surprised he didn't clap as he watched it go in. he looked more like a spectator admiring the shot instead of realising he's the guy who's meant to stop it!!!!!!!! everytime i saw that goal i wanted to take the jersey off him and put it on myself. he may be better than me but at least i would try and make a save. i will put my body and my life in the way of that shot for the sake of argentina. i will do everything in my power. i will dive even if it's a hopeless case. and he didn't need to dive he just needed to stick out an arm. the second goal was pato's fault. a calm keeper would stay on his line because he sees the defender moving towards the ball. he comes out and doesn't even tell ayala to leave the ball. his mouth is as paralysed as his body. the third goal good analysis. correcto. he comes too far across because he's nervous he will be beaten at his near post. he makes alves' mind up for him, he says "look, there's the gap, go and score, i'll clap as it goes in, and give me your shirt to give to my son". alves can't believe his luck he thinks he's died and gone to heaven. also the shot he fumbled. it was an easy catch. it was like a little golf putt he could have trapped the ball with his foot and put it in his pocket. instead he was lucky it didn't squirm in. n-e-r-v-o-u-s.

andywhat
16 Jul 2007, 09:52 AM
I agree, he was a good keep but he's gotten older and we need new blood. I think either Carrizo or Caranta. Now watching Caranta in Copa Libertadores I would vote more him than Carrizo but either one seem pretty solid.

El viejo Matias
16 Jul 2007, 11:48 AM
I would take Romero even:rolleyes: , Pato blows and I have been saying this all along for the whole time I have been a member on this board!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:

leoriver
16 Jul 2007, 04:50 PM
It's been time for us to change keepers!!

I've never seen el Pato do a great save to get a ball out of the air,never seen his feet leave the ground.

With the way we played at keeper I don't see why we didn't go with Carrizo or Ustari from the begining.

elbp
16 Jul 2007, 07:13 PM
NT-material: Carrizo, Ustari, Montoya, Orion, Barbosa, Caranta

NT-material?: Vega, Luchetti, Ojeda, Medran, Romerito, Andujar

Too old but outside chance: Lux, Campagnuolo, Olave, Bossio,

Dark-horse: Saja

Dark-hole: Abbondanfieri

Anyway, finding a new long-term NT keeper is one of the most dificult things. We ougth to think about short-run pain, long-run gain.

Suyuntuy
17 Jul 2007, 12:34 AM
El Pato siempre ha sido un nervioso de m.

I'd like to see Carrizo as 1st keeper, with Caranta as 2nd and my cousin Romerito as 3rd.

The first goal el Pato could have done something, most definitely. The second, he failed to speak up, but that is typical with him. A good keeper must keep in contact with his defense. The third was inevitable, though.

Argentina didn't lose because of him, but his presence back there, all the time at the edge of a heart attack, must have a negative influence on the rest of the team.

Daman75
17 Jul 2007, 02:11 AM
I agree with you. Pato has to go. He dose not inspire me and his reflex not that good. I relay Like the kid from the under 20 team. He looks really confident maybe he is the future.

The Sundance Kid
17 Jul 2007, 07:45 AM
I would take Romero even:rolleyes: , Pato blows and I have been saying this all along for the whole time I have been a member on this board!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:

good for you. you recognised a turkey. we need a keeper with cojones. a man between the sticks not a little kid who looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights. man, move your arse when the opposition shoot. stick out your arm. i feel sick just thinking about it. the stage was too big for you now move along. any national coach who picks pato again has to be instantly dismissed. his name must never be mentioned in the same breath as la seleccion. it's over. time to move on.

efernandez9
17 Jul 2007, 03:38 PM
welcome to the 2 new guys posting from england!

what part?

TKORL
17 Jul 2007, 04:33 PM
heh?

Suyuntuy
17 Jul 2007, 07:39 PM
Hi. I'm in Canada, not England. I used to live in England, though. I guess I decided it's time to go from lurker to poster.

As someone else mentioned, Argentina is the last great team still playing beautiful football. I'm still angry over the loss to Brazil. But, truth be told, they played a great game and Dunga outwitted Basile completely.

Y no sólo el Pato es un nervioso. El domingo Riquelme estaba sudando de nervios, también. There's a psych factor there, when they play Brazil. I agree with everyone else: adiós Pato!

rios
17 Jul 2007, 10:52 PM
carrizo signed with lazio. so he's going to get some serious experience.
if nothing going better for ustari, carrizo will become our #1 soon.

The Sundance Kid
18 Jul 2007, 02:57 AM
Y no sólo el Pato es un nervioso. El domingo Riquelme estaba sudando de nervios, también. There's a psych factor there, when they play Brazil. I agree with everyone else: adiós Pato!

it's hard to argue with any of that.

Leon12
18 Jul 2007, 03:53 AM
It's time for Pato to leave the international scene. He has had a good run, he should now move aside and a younger goalie should be given a go.

rios
18 Jul 2007, 04:58 AM
pato sucks in important games. not just at international level, club level also.

but look at our keepers after Goycochea and Pumpido,
Scoponi, Islas (worst shit), Roa, Bonano, Lux, Franco.... all POO!

DiVo0oNeH
18 Jul 2007, 05:14 AM
pato sucks in important games. not just at international level, club level also.

but look at our keepers after Goycochea and Pumpido,
Scoponi, Islas (worst shit), Roa, Bonano, Lux, Franco.... all POO!


Carrizo, Ustari, Montoya, Romero.... all woooow!!!

rios
18 Jul 2007, 05:19 AM
Carrizo, Ustari, Montoya, Romero.... all woooow!!!
:)
these guys need to get playing time. I'm kinda worried about Ustari's future.

DiVo0oNeH
18 Jul 2007, 05:21 AM
:)
these guys need to get playing time. I'm kinda worried about Ustari's future.


They're playing with their clubs for 2 yrs now!

rios
18 Jul 2007, 05:37 AM
They're playing with their clubs for 2 yrs now!
carrizo probably will start in lazio. but ustari.... unless if getafe sells pato. if osky gets loaned then he'll be pretty screwed.