No more excuses, serious reflection

[soccerr9]

I'm sitting here reflecting after watching every game argentina has played in since world cup 98. When saying every game, I mean I have watch all competative matches and roughly 90 percent of the friendlies.

Argentina are a great team but to me it is now useless arguing ever again that argentina are the best footballing country (which i have been guilty of saying). They simply are not. They produce great talent, win the high majority of their matches, but are just not good enough to win a tournament. After each tournament lose they have suffered I reflect and the moments of brilliance in my mind always have pointed me to thinking that regardless of the final result they were the best team. Similarly to the last Copa and this past WC that is exactly how I felt. Now, after the latest disaster, my mind is clearly telling me that they just do not produce the class of football able of winning a championship.
It hurts more that it was Brazil, but in actually any opponent would have beaten Argentina today. From now on, I and no other intellegent football supporter should hold argentina as favorites. They should only be held as favorites in the fact that they will play entertaining beautiful football. That they never fail to show. Apart from being a die hard argentina supporter, as a football fan I thank them for entertaining me this month. In terms of being threats to win major competitions Argentina simply are not. Today I have moved past that chapter and regard Argentina as great football nation but one that is incapable of winning until they prove otherwise.

In terms of Brazil again you have shown why you are truly the only class of the Americas. This is coming again from someone you have broken so many times. Congrats.

[TKORL]

At the same time man, we're still probably better in the long run than England.

And we're still at least as good as France, Italy, Germany etc.

[soccerr9]

Being better then England gets us nowhere. As for the other teams you mentioned two have recently won WC and have something Argentine players and coaches lack, nerves.

[soccerr9]

After watching the success our youth programs have had (actually winning tournaments), where does the problem of Argentine football resonate from? The youth team play very fast, aggressive, physical, offensive football having tremendous success. When, where, and why does that tactic change in the senior team where lately we have played slow, overly controlled football. Has retention of aged favored players plague our senior team? I am really trying to figure out where the problems begin because it appears to happen after our promising youth graduate from the youth teams.

[EL MONO MARIO]

We need to become a TEAM. T E A M.


We play to the strengths of a few players and not as a WHOLE. We need to end the MAradona disease, of 1 player or 3 players making a difference when it needs to be EVERYONE on the same page. Until then we will keep beating the minos with our INDIVIDUAL talents and lose to the BIG FISHES when we rely on those INDIVIDUALS and not our TEAM.

[TKORL]

I think we need to ditch the "beautiful football" concept.

Start with a good defense, and work from there.

I think the most important thing for international football is the coach. He has to make the right substitution at the right time.

We need Capello to coach this team. Well, even Simeone looks promising.

[ElClu]

Well.we just lost a game,horribly,I must add
Is not the end of the world
Is just the way it is,and it has to be always in clutch games.
We have to regroup and think better.
Riquelme had us nowhere,so,why have him?
I had a bad feeling when he came back,but the way they have played told me otherwise.
But cannot play at the pace of riquelme,we have to stop thinking we need basically one man,who always choke in important games.

[atlanta]

ahh, what would be a major tournament without the obligatory "sky is falling" theory put forth by the losing side. There is nothing wrong with argentina and their players. They've played wonderful football but just had a off game in the final. I for one hope that alfio keeps the nucleus together and continue with his style of play.

[soccerr9]

to atlanta's post

This is a reoccurinng theme. Keeping the neuclus will result in the same end result. I seriously hope your thinking does not fall on the laps of all Argentine nsupports because if that is the case here comes more of the same mentality and loses to come.

[frasermc]

how different it would have been had one of riquelme's shots went in when it was 1-0. the one off the post was unlucky to say the least. i thought argentina looked the better side for a lot of the first half. although tevez was disappointing up front. messi looked lively in the first half. then just before half time a great ball is put across the 6yd box. ayala has to go for it and unluckily diverts it into his own net.

an intangible such as luck has a knack of having a big say in major finals.

the second half brazil knew that they had to stop argentina building up any pressure for the first 20 minutes or so. they then proceeded to commit niggling fouls all over the pitch with this objective in mind. it worked a treat.

as argentina pushed further forward there was always going to be the possibility of being picked off on the counter.

the main disappointment for me was the quality of riquelme's set pieces which i thought were pretty poor. the same free kick was knocked into the same area time after time after time..

just my opinion at the end of the day but if argentina had a bit more luck in that decisive first half then the result could have been very different.

[atlanta]

to atlanta's post

This is a reoccurinng theme. Keeping the neuclus will result in the same end result. I seriously hope your thinking does not fall on the laps of all Argentine nsupports because if that is the case here comes more of the same mentality and loses to come.


how do you know that. This is the first tournament with this group. Players like ayala, zanetti, crespo, veron needs to be dropped. But not because they've been playing badly or that argentina needs to change their tactics. They need to be dropped because they are getting old and it's unrealistic for argentina to win wc2010 with them on the squad. Bring on some new players and work out the growing pains thru wc qualifiers rather than stick with the older players.

But as far as tactics are concerned, I wouldn't change a SINGLE thing. Like I said, you lost a tournament, it happens, but just because you lose doesn't mean you should completely overhaul the team or take a u-turn as far as tactics are concerned.

[Saravakos]

Greetings to all forum members
The thing is that you lost to Brazil once again quite easily, and let me remind you 2 more things... 1. Very bad result string against Brazil. 2. They played without Ronaldinho and Kaka (Its like Argentina playing with Riquelme and Messi).

:mad: :mad: :mad:

You need to change alot of things, Fast!!!

[soccerr9]

tactically i would play a game that is fast paced on the ground... that means all players that are starting and coming in must be able to handle such a pace... lthey need to build a more dominant defense who can handle the pressure of fast paced teams and a defense that is better at handling crosses... including a solid goal keeper... the midfield should be conventional with all people capable of solid offense and defense... the forwards should be a mix of messi tevez and a front man... lthat was to me sorely lacking today... a batistuta esque player who can get to the end of crosses and make the front central defenders work... tevez and messi are great at wearing down the outside defenders but man alex never seemed troubled...the team needs to be more willing to play a complete team role rather then surround itself on just a few stars... italy was successful because of solid defending and team efforts, as brazil was today, and as greece was in the last edition of the euro cup... football has become too athletic, to fast, to phyrical for players who are not willing to have all the abilities... they will beat the minnows and lstruggle vs better organized opponents until they themselves become the organized bunch....

look at the frist goal... ayala was defending an area by himself for yes he say the long ball played but no other teammate came to support and it is not liek the play developed fast enough that the correct players could have repositioned themselves... its about a total effort commitment to play all over the pitch up and down at all times... defend together attack together total football

[soccerr9]

and lsome1 please tell argentines that it is no longer true that the team without the ball cannot win which seems to be the pressing idea... attack quickly and often if you ******** up come back on defense together work to get the ball and attack swiftly apply as much pressurue at all times... conditions the players to lplay in such a way and success will come

[Me+11]

Argentina just blow it.. Why they play like this in the final when they are so great from the begining? Here is what i can say from this final:

1. Defender is too slow.. they cannot overcome counter attact
2. Midfielder don't win the ball.. Cambiasso and Veron both have a bad day at the same time.
3. Requelme is very dissapointing.. yes, he've been man mark hardly but he also doesn't do well in set pieces.. He do pretty bad..
4. Tevez almost invissible.. Messi just ok..
5. Basille don't subs player as early as it should.. he should sub veron or cambiasso immideately on the start of 2nd half..

Argentina really have to think what's going wrong with this senior team and start play the youngster..

[Fgiriun]

One important point to bring up was the temperature. Basile insisted in not playing the final under this heat knowing how it would effect his players. Brazil has an advantage over any rival (except maybe the africans) under such exhausting heat. Argentine players just dont have the stamina and speed which the brazilians posses.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

4. Tevez almost invissible.. Messi just ok..


I saw Tevez do a lot more than Messi. The latter is not God people, you can criticise him when he deserves it. It is currently one of those times.

[DiVo0oNeH]

someone mentioned our youth? when was the last time we won a championship 2005? and how many players of that youth squad is playing in ur senior team today? 1? oh no wounder our senior team sucks!!!!

Palleta? Zabaleta? Aguero? Higuain? Belluschi? Sosa? Pavone? i thought this copa was going to be all about these guys and trust me if this team ever plays together they'll probably win instead of having some turtles running all over oh yeah bring back Riquelme and Veron they're pretty good yeah true they are so gooood that my friends think our u-20 team plays much better football than our senior team!

and those who wanted Palacio on NT are now saying hes not NT material!!!!! enough with the old guys plz just give our ********ing youngsters a chance!

[ElClu]

Greetings to all forum members
The thing is that you lost to Brazil once again quite easily, and let me remind you 2 more things... 1. Very bad result string against Brazil. 2. They played without Ronaldinho and Kaka (Its like Argentina playing with Riquelme and Messi).

:mad: :mad: :mad:

You need to change alot of things, Fast!!!
You have a false reading of what's going on.
We only lost ONE game,of course is important because it was the final,and we did play bad.(and we suffer for it)
But this is the reason people overlook the rest that's been done.
There are teams that can never play well and get nowhere.
There are teams that play well and get nowhere either.
There are regular teams that win,mainly because their opponent play bad.(probably this game we just witnessed)
We have a bad streak against brasil lately,still the win/loose ratio is balanced.(do you know this ratio??)
Maybe you don't know that,maybe you didn't watch any of the copa america games,but surely you only base your opinion in ONE game.
Is nothing like that.
We lost the final game,there is no drama.
In my view,is a deception because we had everything to win,but didn't happen,but this is what make futbol a beautiful game.
There is always a next game.

[cordobesenUS]

I simply cannot believe this.....thank god I never bet otherwise I'd be poor betting on these loosers, some way some how I know they don't have it.....Ayala, Zanetti, Heinze, Veron please get out of the team and let new blood in....there needs to be a generation change, .......no more zanetti ayala, these guys are bad vibes, negative and thats contagious, we need winners, guys who fight like messi, tevez....fu/..k the old guys, they never won spat........I'm tired of the same every year!!!Riquelme is a player less we have every time argentina looses the ball, he never defends, never recovers, I understand he is the greatest thing in argentine soccer but it's a game of 11 guys chasing the ball, when they attack the defense starts with the last forward, you have to do this rather than standing waiting to be served......he is too f...king slow!!!he should have put Gago and masche in the middle to kill any chance of counterattack....