Argentina vs Brazil (Copa America) Final

[DiVo0oNeH]

what do u guys think? what will the score be and who will perform well?

[Leon12]

Well, this is it, the big one. You can say what you want about this Brazil team, they are dull, will do anything to win, but like the Brazil team from the last Copa they manage to win one by hook or by crook. Argentina team have the better side and players but they need to overcome the mental hurdle of failing when it matters, if they can do that then I can see them winning by 2 or 3 goals, if not, well.........

I liked the fact that the players did really celebrate the fact they got past Mexico, it showed they were'nt just happy with getting to the final, they seem determined this time, lets do Brazil we owe them big time.

[DiVo0oNeH]

Well, this is it, the big one. You can say what you want about this Brazil team, they are dull, will do anything to win, but like the Brazil team from the last Copa they manage to win one by hook or by crook. Argentina team have the better side and players but they need to overcome the mental hurdle of failing when it matters, if they can do that then I can see them winning by 2 or 3 goals, if not, well.........

I liked the fact that the players did really celebrate the fact they got past Mexico, it showed they were'nt just happy with getting to the final, they seem determined this time, lets do Brazil we owe them big time.


Yeah i also think that we can thrash Brazil but the defense needs to tighten up and do the exact same thing they did to Castillo today! Millito should take on Love and Ayala for Robinho i heard Brazil are planning to play on our left wing because Heinze is supposively our weakeness cause hes slow for Robinho but i think Heinze can take on Robinho thought and dont forget masche will help Messi, Tevez, Riquelme, Veron will pick up the offense

[Leon12]

Yeah i also think that we can thrash Brazil but the defense needs to tighten up and do the exact same thing they did to Castillo today! Millito should take on Love and Ayala for Robinho i heard Brazil are planning to play on our left wing because Heinze is supposively our weakeness cause hes slow for Robinho but i think Heinze can take on Robinho thought and dont forget masche will help Messi, Tevez, Riquelme, Veron will pick up the offense

They can take on Heinze if they want, but who in their team is going to stop Messi. ;)

[bsas]

I'm more confident for this game than against Mexico, even though you can never discard Brazil, specially when they face Argentina. But the level at which we are playing is far above theirs, so I expect a large win by Argentina. Specially that our team counts many players who were deprived of the victory in 2003, and others for whom it's the last occasion to win something of importance.

In fact, I feel some of the Brazilians must start feeling butterflies in their stomach at the idea of representing their country against such a strong Argie side.

[Leon12]

I get the impression (I hope I am proven right in this) that the team are holding something in reserve, they haven't gone flat out in any of the games they have played. I think Messi/Tevez and Riquelme are keeping that little bit extra for Brazil, hope so because if that is the case Brazil are going to be in for a long evening.

[argentine soccer fan]

Brazil always saves their best for Argentina, it's the one team they really get up for. So, they will give it their best shot, and it's going to be a very tough test.

But, I think this Argentina team is too good, if they play the way they are capable of, there is no way we don't win.

I say 3-1, with Messi and Tevez getting the goals.

[Leon12]

The one thing I don't want to see, and it is something the team have been guilty of numerous times, if for them to start show boating before the game is won. They need to concentrate for the full 90 minutes, win the game and then start giving it the big one.:D

[hoss23]

I thought Heinze looked a bit slow against Mexico...was it Heinze or Milito (or both) that had a few passes to Ayala intercepted (1st half against Mexico)?

I know Argentina is playing better than Brazil, but the things that scare me about Brazil are a) size/physical strength, and b) finishing ability. They always seem to nail their chances when they get them, at least in the last few Copas. 1 or 2 bad plays (such as lazy passes through the middle) will end up as 1 or 2 goals for Brazil.

I really, really hope that I am wrong, but this all seems to familiar to 2004.

[BusbyBabes]

Heinze although I love him does get caught out of position very often and sometimes is near the half-way line rather than the penalty area where he is meant to be.

[Leon12]

I thought Heinze looked a bit slow against Mexico...was it Heinze or Milito (or both) that had a few passes to Ayala intercepted (1st half against Mexico)?

I know Argentina is playing better than Brazil, but the things that scare me about Brazil are a) size/physical strength, and b) finishing ability. They always seem to nail their chances when they get them, at least in the last few Copas. 1 or 2 bad plays (such as lazy passes through the middle) will end up as 1 or 2 goals for Brazil.

I really, really hope that I am wrong, but this all seems to familiar to 2004.


I know what you mean and I think probably all of us on this board (even if we won't admit it) share your feeling of dread. Brazil, as they did at the last Copa, have looked ordinary, there one major win came against a shambolic Chile side (most of whose players had been on the lash the night before the game), their defence looks dodgy, the midfield pedestrian and upfront they only have Robhinio and just as in the last Copa they should have lost to Uruguay in the semi final (anyone remember Da Silva missing an open goal from 2 inches out when Uruguay were leading 1-0 in 2004?). And yet, and yet, they are in the final again, and all it will take is a lapse in concentration by Argentina and it could me more heartbreak for us. The team has to concentrate for the full 90 minutes against Brazil, there can be no lapses in defence, no showboating, we have to play well for the whole game to win. If we do that and Messi/Tevez/Riquelme shine then we will win.

[kevinucho]

brasilero brasileroooo....
que amargo se te veeeee.....
Maradona es mas grandeeee....
Es mas grande que Peleeeeee!!!

[ElClu]

The feeling is,for me,that argentina should outclass brasil this time,giving the way both teams come into the final,and the motivation, desire,concentration shown so far.
Undoubtly,argentina play his game and no team had the power ,so far, to change the course of the unstoppable train.
I'd say we are 2 goals ahead of brasil,so 3-1 or 4-2.
But then,my biggest fear is AFTER this tournament.
I hope this teamwork doesn't get diluted with many changes for future competitions.
There is magic out there when argentina plays I would hate to loose.

[vipnerd]

Just like in 2004, this Brazil side is dull. Yet they are huge for the set pieces.

This team really rests on the creativity of Robinho and the defensive order. Then the set pieces will open the game for them.

This is worrisome, as Argentina has good headers but that are simply outplayed against a team like Brazil. It will take lots of concentration, not to commit fouls unnecessarily around the box, nor give senseless corner kicks.

Don't forget that Brazil got both goals in 2004 this way. They will bombard the box in the last minutes should they be behind in the score. For this sole reason, Argentina needs to pick up the their speed one notch in this game ... and try to finish the game early on.

This keeper, Doni, is a bit shaky ... ask Man Utd for references. ;)

Argentina should be heavy favorites despite the Clasico status of the game. The team is confident and has variables to open up Brazil's defense. Forecast a 3-1.


.

[big daddy]

Set pieces are crucial, because Brazil has some big guys, whereas Argentina lack a little bit of height. However, Argentina has the quality, and this will hopefully tell. This team is so well balanced, not just in the sense of both flanks being equally strong, but in terms of the right amount of emphasis on defence and attack. Basile deserves so much credit.

I'm glad Brazil made the final. To progress on a psychological level, which they must do sometime, Argentina needs to put the hoodoo to bed, and this provides the perfect opportunity. In terms of belief, this Argentine side, and particulary the guys who will still be around in 210, willl make great strides by not only winning a major tournament, but by beating Brazil in the final. This game provides a test of their mental strength, but if they come through it, it should bode well for the future.

I have far less worries about the defence than others. As I have said before, this is the best back four Argentina currently possesses, and the fact they are yet to concede from open play in the Copa illustrates that.

Of course, Mascherano's presence always helps.

[hoss23]

Ouch, same official as in 2004 (http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2007/07/12/um/01456298.html). My level of disgust with the outcome of that game prevents me from recalling how he called it.

[TKORL]

I hope Messi really displays his dribbling powers. We all know he can score really well, but the dribbling just scares defenders, and the best part is I love how the stadium erupts every time Messi beats a defender.

[rios]

Just like in 2004, this Brazil side is dull. Yet they are huge for the set pieces.

This team really rests on the creativity of Robinho and the defensive order. Then the set pieces will open the game for them.

This is worrisome, as Argentina has good headers but that are simply outplayed against a team like Brazil. It will take lots of concentration, not to commit fouls unnecessarily around the box, nor give senseless corner kicks.

that's why i think we should play 2 holding mids. set up a 2 men screen further away from the goal. give more time for our back line to react to their 'creactivities'.
It should also allow the fullbacks to concentrate more on the wing routes.

Also, we seemed to be playing some man marking last game. I noticed Heinze recovering from other side of our box... We can't do that against brazil. they switch way too much. winger and wingback switch, left and right side switch, forward and midfield swap.... so 2 holding midfielders should also allow us to play zone defense better. more supports for the defenders.

The brazilian defense didn't look too hard to crack, especially now they're missing gilberto silva too... 4-2-3-1 with 4 offensive players and occasionally help from one of the holding mids, plus our fullbacks providing some width... should be enough to score couple goals. Our focus should be on defense. Not give up setplays and restrict their through balls/runs.

This keeper, Doni, is a bit shaky ... ask Man Utd for references. ;)

he looked pretty scary against uruguay.


Don't forget that Brazil got both goals in 2004 this way. They will bombard the box in the last minutes should they be behind in the score. For this sole reason, Argentina needs to pick up the their speed one notch in this game ... and try to finish the game early on.
Argentina should be heavy favorites despite the Clasico status of the game. The team is confident and has variables to open up Brazil's defense. Forecast a 3-1.

If we use 4-2-3-1 (which i think there's a chance since basile been testing it with the garbage time of these past matches) i think 3-1 or 2-1 is probable. if 4-3-1-2 I expect more brazilian scores.
Man, we really gotta minimize their damage. This game is a defensive matchup.

[DiVo0oNeH]

that's why i think we should play 2 holding mids. set up a 2 men screen further away from the goal. give more time for our back line to react to their 'creactivities'.
It should also allow the fullbacks to concentrate more on the wing routes.

Also, we seemed to be playing some man marking last game. I noticed Heinze recovering from other side of our box... We can't do that against brazil. they switch way too much. winger and wingback switch, left and right side switch, forward and midfield swap.... so 2 holding midfielders should also allow us to play zone defense better. more supports for the defenders.

The brazilian defense didn't look too hard to crack, especially now they're missing gilberto silva too... 4-2-3-1 with 4 offensive players and occasionally help from one of the holding mids, plus our fullbacks providing some width... should be enough to score couple goals. Our focus should be on defense. Not give up setplays and restrict their through balls/runs.



he looked pretty scary against uruguay.




If we use 4-2-3-1 (which i think there's a chance since basile been testing it with the garbage time of these past matches) i think 3-1 or 2-1 is probable. if 4-3-1-2 I expect more brazilian scores.
Man, we really gotta minimize their damage. This game is a defensive matchup.


I agree but that means Aimar will start? so who would be ur subs?

[Leon12]

The ideal scenario in this game would be if Argentina could take an early lead, that would open up gaps in a vulnerable Brazil defence and allow the likes of Messi/Tevez/Riquelme to cause havoc on the counter attack. Having said that Argentina have shown that they have no problems with coming from going a goal down. Also in every single game Argentina have gotten stronger in the second half of matches and especially towards the end of the 90 minutes, which makes a pleasant change as usually that is the time we concede goals.

Brazil has a mental edge over Argentina, they are used to winning tournaments and know they can do so even if they do not play well, if the Argentina players can overcome this then they will win.