Kirovski and Cherundolo Experiment Over. Please.

[Northside Rovers]

So can we call the Jovan Kirovski experiment over now? Please.

He may be a talented player, relegation bubble EPL teams don't keep players on the team just because they look good. He must be just awesome at practice. I am sure he is a great guy.

But he is as dangerous as the Easter Bunny in national team games. That shot against Cameroon he looped over the bar from 5 yards out just did it for me. Top class forwards at least put that on goal, if not in the back of the net.

And I lost track of how many times Cherundolo passed the ball to Cameroon. He wasn't the only one giving it away - but I think he did it the most.

I know this wasn't our A-Team but I think their performances showed that they will not contribute to the WC 2006 and it is time to remove them from the pool and get 3 more folks in there.

[gnk]

Originally posted by Northside Rovers
So can we call the Jovan Kirovski experiment over now? Please.

He may be a talented player, relegation bubble EPL teams don't keep players on the team just because they look good. He must be just awesome at practice. I am sure he is a great guy.

But he is as dangerous as the Easter Bunny in national team games. That shot against Cameroon he looped over the bar from 5 yards out just did it for me. Top class forwards at least put that on goal, if not in the back of the net.

And I lost track of how many times Cherundolo passed the ball to Cameroon. He wasn't the only one giving it away - but I think he did it the most.

I know this wasn't our A-Team but I think their performances showed that they will not contribute to the WC 2006 and it is time to remove them from the pool and get 3 more folks in there.

I am, admittedly, a Kiro apologist. I still do not think Bruce uses him correctly. Bruce seems to want to put Kiro in the McBride "target" role when that's not Kiro's game. Kiro has had his best games in England when playing behind the 2 strikers. (Seems like a lot of guys on the US nats seem to fit that role, but I digress.) He cannot play the target forward - period. I don't know why Bruce keeps putting him in that role. That being said, even I have to admit that Kiro was simply horrible this tourney, and he hasn't exactly lit it up in previous Nats appearances - positions aside. I still think the guy can play, but I certainly will not call for his inclusion in the Nats (or cry if he's not included).

Re Cherundolo: I think you're being too harsh. Steve came forward on occasion well, and defended decently well. He certainly, IMHO, did nothing to warrant his exclusion, although he didn't do a lot to make anyone stand up and take notice. Then again, other than maybe Timmy H, who did?

[Mason16]

Originally posted by Northside Rovers
So can we call the Jovan Kirovski experiment over now? Please.

He may be a talented player, relegation bubble EPL teams don't keep players on the team just because they look good. He must be just awesome at practice. I am sure he is a great guy.

But he is as dangerous as the Easter Bunny in national team games. That shot against Cameroon he looped over the bar from 5 yards out just did it for me. Top class forwards at least put that on goal, if not in the back of the net.

And I lost track of how many times Cherundolo passed the ball to Cameroon. He wasn't the only one giving it away - but I think he did it the most.

I know this wasn't our A-Team but I think their performances showed that they will not contribute to the WC 2006 and it is time to remove them from the pool and get 3 more folks in there.

YOu have a good (if not repetitive) argument regarding Kiro but Cherundolo is a quality RB and has improved after his first season in the B1. Cherundolo was a lot more physical than I remember and he is pretty good on the ball. He is relatively young still and will continue to develop. Who else are you thinking would be better??

[Pyro]

Cherundolo - Stay

Kirovsky - Go and take Berhalter with you.

[matador11]

Regardless of what position he plays, a quality player will show his class. Or, in the case of Kirovski, lack thereof. This kid may have been a good fit for the Nats in the late 80s or early 90s, but we've come too far to have players of his caliber still on the squad.

Ditto for Califf.

Cherundolo is marginal at this point. Performances good enough to justify his inclusion, but not good enough to warrant becoming a fixture. For the time being, the jury is still out on him.

[Scoey]

Re: Kirovski. Get over it already, folks. It's not an "experiement" anymore. Bruce has seen what Kirovski brings for five years now, and he apparently likes it, because he keeps bringing him back. Don't be surprised to see him continue to get call-ups when certain first choice players are unavailable. For whatever reason, Bruce likes Kirovski. I'll say it again. Bruce likes Kirovski. Stop whining about it. It's not likely to change soon.

Re: Cherundolo. He looked good in the two games I saw him. Composed on the ball, solid positioning, good tackling, effective in advancing the offense. He's a keeper.

[graywolfe81]

Kiro is a no brainer. Some poster recently sent in the minutes Kiro has garnered with the National team compared to other guys whose heads are being called for (Twellmen, Cunningham, Convey by Metro fans, Berhalter etc) and it's horrifying, he's logged more minutes combined then all our forwards put together if you exclude McBride. And he hasn't done jack squat with the minutes.

He should have been done a long time ago. In fact, as many Razov threads can attest, couldn't he have come along instead? He hasn't gotten nearly the looks as Kiro, and he's done a lot more with his looks. That being said, I don't see Razov as a long term answer either, just a nice big Forward to have around when we're in the Gold Cup, or playing early in Qualifying and have a lot of injuries.

As for Dolo, I don't see at all why you want him gone. In previous caps he looked out of his depth, w/one exception that I remember. But this time I thought he played terrific, he didn't give up much on his side of the field, I don't even know if anyone he was handling got a sog, and he did a great job moving forward as well. His passing may need a little more work, but it's certainly better than any other defenders passing in this tournament. Even a guy I like alot in Gibbs didn't pass as effectively as Dolo. Don't get me started on Berhalter (have fun with Cottbus, and don't come back), and Boca wasn't nearly as effective with his passing although his defending was okay. Right now Dolo is the best RB we have, better than Hejduk, and Sanneh is getting up there in age, so we could definitely use him.

[Northside Rovers]

Originally posted by Scoey
Re: Kirovski. Get over it already, folks. It's not an "experiement" anymore. Bruce has seen what Kirovski brings for five years now, and he apparently likes it, because he keeps bringing him back. Don't be surprised to see him continue to get call-ups when certain first choice players are unavailable. For whatever reason, Bruce likes Kirovski. I'll say it again. Bruce likes Kirovski. Stop whining about it. It's not likely to change soon.

But what is it Bruce sees in him?

If ussoccer.com put actual stats on the website (like mlsnet does) I could easily find out how many games, minutes and goals Kirovski has racked up. But I know he ain't racking up many goals for as many games / chances he has had.

That is job # 1 for forwards and he is not doing it and I will bet you dollars to donuts he will never do it. Cut your losses and start getting folks some experience like Twellman, Mullan, Ching and whoever else you like and see what they can do.

Maybe Arena was giving him one last chance to do show what he can do a relatively major intl tournament. If so - Jovan didn't do much with it. And he never has.

[uniteo]

Originally posted by Scoey
Re: Cherundolo. He looked good in the two games I saw him. Composed on the ball, solid positioning, good tackling, effective in advancing the offense. He's a keeper.

Let's not forget his contributions during qualifying

[jordsosa]

I've liked Cherundolo when I've seen him.

I listened to the Eurosport TV commentators yesterfday and, FWIW, they repeatedly praised Cherundolo and said he impressed them. I think he deserves to be in the mix.

[socrne1]

I agree that kiro needs to be out of the forward position, maybe he would be better in that right mid role, as you guys are saying he has performed well or behind the 2 in the past.

On Chero, last night I thought he did a good job pushed forward well and there wasn't much coming from his side of the field, I could be wrong but most of Cam's good chances last night came from their crosses on Gibbs' side of the field.

Also GB gone! Califf gone! and Hedjuk gone!!! We have some work to do in the back that is for sure.

[Scoey]

Originally posted by Northside Rovers
But what is it Bruce sees in him?

If ussoccer.com put actual stats on the website (like mlsnet does) I could easily find out how many games, minutes and goals Kirovski has racked up. But I know he ain't racking up many goals for as many games / chances he has had.

That is job # 1 for forwards and he is not doing it and I will bet you dollars to donuts he will never do it. Cut your losses and start getting folks some experience like Twellman, Mullan, Ching and whoever else you like and see what they can do.

Maybe Arena was giving him one last chance to do show what he can do a relatively major intl tournament. If so - Jovan didn't do much with it. And he never has.

You're missing the point. It doesn't matter what Bruce sees in him, or whether you agree with Bruce's evaluation. The point is Bruce likes him. Full f'ing stop. It's like the Richie Williams thing all over again. Stop freaking out about it already. It's not likely to change any time soon, and it's out of your control. Starting 1,000,000 threads about it isn't going to change the cold hard reality that, for whatever reason, Bruce likes Kirovski enough to keep bringing him back.

[Bruce S]

I am not sure what games the guy posting this thread was watching. I thought that Cherundolo was arguably the best US player next to Howard at this tournament. He is one of the few who actually played well. No mistakes, sold passing.

[afgrijselijkheid]

since when is cherundolo an experiment? i got news for ya friend... he's not an experiment, he's the rightful heir to sanneh - and if he did make a few annoying mistakes:

1- he's probably quite tired from a strenous bundesliga survival fight - in case you don't know, SC starts and rarely comes out for hannover 96 - it wouldn't be out of the realm to say he was among the minutes played leaders in germany's top league this season (i don't actually know, just guessing, but i will research this) - side note: go ahead and blast me, but i am also willing to forgive berhalter SLIGHTLY for this same reason - GB played some pretty inspired football for cottbus during bundesliga's second half and was also likely among the PT leaders

2- a few annoying mistakes by a US back in this tournament actually sounds damn good

FCOL, stevie set up the only good shot on net we had against brazil with a PINPOINT long ball to LD

[Lloyd Heilbrunn]

It's funny how watching soccer is so subjective.I agree 100% on Jovan but thought these last two games were Dolo's best in a USA shirt and I hope he continues to improve.

[appoo]

Originally posted by Lloyd Heilbrunn
It's funny how watching soccer is so subjective.I agree 100% on Jovan but thought these last two games were Dolo's best in a USA shirt and I hope he continues to improve.

Not that subjective. Almost everybody thinks that Cherundolo is pretty good at Right Back. I'm not sure what people are thinking who still think that Dolo sucks

[MarioKempes]

I'm not ready to pencil in Cherundolo just yet. The competition at the CC was not at the same level as we'll see at the World Cup.

Cherundolo has never played well before this point. I still have nightmares of the Germany game in Rostock. I would say, though, that he has earned at least another look. Well done.

[aorig]

I will have to say I was very impressed with Cherundolo acutally. I never have thought that he was that good, but he really suprised me. Hopefully he can be at least a regular call up when available to the NATS from here on out.

[lurking]

Originally posted by MarioKempes
I'm not ready to pencil in Cherundolo just yet. The competition at the CC was not at the same level as we'll see at the World Cup.

Your right, there is always the chance that we will be in a group with Belgium, China and Denmark at the WC, which Id much prefer over Cameroon, Brazil and Turkey. ;)

[graywolfe81]

Dolo will have plenty of chances to refine his game before '06. By then we should definitely know if he can make it at that level by his performances in qualifying and in various competitions. So far the returns are similar to what we saw from Sanneh between 2001 and May of 2002, all of a sudden, it was as if a lightbulb lit up and he got it.

And there are plenty of examples of the opposite, players that probably hung around too long with the national team, like Regis, who was let go before he potentially could have played a catastrophic role in the World Cup, other guys like Agoos earned their ticket inspite of obvious concerns to the teams detriment.

I've got a feeling that Bruce has learned his lessons from the last four years, and while he may still be a little too loyal to certain players, I think Kirovski will vanish from the scene by 2004, and I think Dolo is likely on his way to at least becoming our temporary Right Back for the next few years.

Dolo should certainly see enough action in 2003 and '04 to let us know whether he should play an eminent role in the final stage of qualifying, and whether he should make our '06 squad as a starter as well.

Finding out what we have in Clark, Onyewu (spelling?), Dolo and Gbandi, in addition to more time with Gibbs starting should give a final reckoning as to who will play key roles in our final run on defense and at D Mid. Right now, i think the only guy that looks like a lock for the defense is Boca, and that is a mildly tenuous lock as well.