Arena's philosophical dilemma [R]

[Defenestration]

seriously, what was the point of even going, Bruce? what was the friggin point...

if you're gonna go young...then commit to going young. don't "half-as$" commit, like throwing 3 or 4 youngsters with berhalter (??!?), kirovski, and stewart et al. example: guys like martino. martino should have played 3 full games (if you're going in under these pretenses), not 60 friggin minutes. convey too. BTW, where on earth is Conor Casey, and why is Kirovski playing in his stead? i realize that pre-MLS we couldn't have done this, but I think now we can.

if you're going to win...then commit all-out to winning. bring your best players: bring JOB, mcbride, sanneh, etc. Bruce, you can't have it both ways.

this is what Brazil (and mainly every other major power in the world) does. when they go to a tournament, it's painfully obvious what their plan is. they either go to win, or they go to try out new players. THERE IS NO IN-BETWEEN. got that, Bruce? there is no in-between. playing guys like berhalter and kirovski does nothing but retard development of some young kid (i.e. casey).

why doesn't Bruce get this? we don't expect him to win everything, but if you're going over to experiment, then friggin experiment. you wasted a great opportunity for team growth and development, and what did you learn?? that greg berhalter is too slow for major international competition?? that greg vanney is simply a mediocre player?? good discoveries, Bruce, but I could have told you these things for free before the tournament...

[appoo]

Originally posted by Defenestration
seriously, what was the point of even going, Bruce? what was the friggin point...

if you're gonna go young...then commit to going young. don't "half-as$" commit, like throwing 3 or 4 youngsters with berhalter (??!?), kirovski, and stewart et al. example: guys like martino. martino should have played 3 full games (if you're going in under these pretenses), not 60 friggin minutes. convey too. BTW, where on earth is Conor Casey, and why is Kirovski playing in his stead? i realize that pre-MLS we couldn't have done this, but I think now we can.

if you're going to win...then commit all-out to winning. bring your best players: bring JOB, mcbride, sanneh, etc. Bruce, you can't have it both ways.

this is what Brazil (and mainly every other major power in the world) does. when they go to a tournament, it's painfully obvious what their plan is. they either go to win, or they go to try out new players. THERE IS NO IN-BETWEEN. got that, Bruce? there is no in-between. playing guys like berhalter and kirovski does nothing but retard development of some young kid (i.e. casey).

why doesn't Bruce get this? we don't expect him to win everything, but if you're going over to experiment, then friggin experiment. you wasted a great opportunity for team growth and development, and what did you learn?? that greg berhalter is too slow for major international competition?? that greg vanney is simply a mediocre player?? good discoveries, Bruce, but I could have told you these things for free before the tournament...

easy buddy. He knew what he wanted from this tournament before hand. And I think he got it. I consider guys like Kirovski and Berhalter fillers. Just guys you can stick in their to make up a squad. Some people were just unavailible.

[Riotom9]

Originally posted by Defenestration

this is what Brazil (and mainly every other major power in the world) does. when they go to a tournament, it's painfully obvious what their plan is. they either go to win, or they go to try out new players. THERE IS NO IN-BETWEEN.

I would say bringing Emerson, Ricardinho, Dida, Lucio, and Belleti isn't exactly going young. These are all WC veterans, most of them playing on the Selecao for 4+ years. They could have EASILY gone younger and more inexperienced.

If your point is only putting in players that have a reasonable shot of being on the field in 2006 - well, history shows that you need your strongest team during qualifying, and that in the last 6-9 months before the tournament, your strongest team is going to see some changes.

I think the USA has a long ways to go, but I think it's just a healthy dose of reality after dreaming for the last year. I think the tournament was a major success in evaluating talent - as long as Bruce acts on the information he's seen. Berhalter just doesn't cut it anymore. Armas has lost a step and that needs to be considered. Jovan...my god...Jovan would find a way to screw up any chance he gets. Easily the least talented player on the field for the USA all tournament. There are plenty of other forwards out there.

Besides that, I think Bruce has done alright - he's just got a hell of a job in front of him...

[lurking]

Hes got a system. Bleed players in slowly, easing them into things. Now wether or not you like the system, its painfully obvious that hes sticking to it and not going to change things. On some levels I love the consistancy, but on others it drives me nuts to see players that have a very limited future making it because he doesnt have the option of using roster spots for "learning experience".

Thats why Gibbs only was able to make it as a fill in for Pope, because its broken his slow breaking in process. Thats why short of being eliminated early Martino had no chance to play in this tournament.

Personally I find it slow and frustrating and not condusive to creating any kind of youth movement, but at least Arena seems to have a system.

[MarioKempes]

Originally posted by Defenestration
if you're gonna go young, go young
Old and young is the right mix

if you're going to win...then commit all-out to winning.
Bruce didn't care about winning

If you play with ALL young players, you end up with an embarrassing cluster fuuuck.

[Captain10]

I understand what you're saying, but IMO it's not wise to go with a complete team of rookies. In the game against Cameroon, with all the young players on the field together, our lack of cohesiveness and experience showed. When you bring in new players, you can't change everyone or you'll create chaos. You need some veterans to help the young players keep an even keel.

The only thing that I could find fault with was the way that Cunningham did not get any time in the game against Cameroon with Arena opting to go with three WC veterans. I thought Cunningham deserved at least a run out on the field. Although I heard that earlier in the week he had strained his hamstring and maybe that had a bearing on the decision.

[Casper]

Originally posted by Captain10
I understand what you're saying, but IMO it's not wise to go with a complete team of rookies. In the game against Cameroon, with all the young players on the field together, our lack of cohesiveness and experience showed. When you bring in new players, you can't change everyone or you'll create chaos. You need some veterans to help the young players keep an even keel.

The only thing that I could find fault with was the way that Cunningham did not get any time in the game against Cameroon with Arena opting to go with three WC veterans. I thought Cunningham deserved at least a run out on the field. Although I heard that earlier in the week he had strained his hamstring and maybe that had a bearing on the decision.

I agree with you on both counts - unless he asked out of the game on the basis of protecting his injury, and with Twellman out sick, I was very disappointed that Cunningham didn't get the start for Kirovski, or at least come on as a sub instead of Earnie.

[Father Ted]

Originally posted by Casper
I agree with you on both counts - unless he asked out of the game on the basis of protecting his injury, and with Twellman out sick, I was very disappointed that Cunningham didn't get the start for Kirovski, or at least come on as a sub instead of Earnie.

Apparently, Cunningham had a hamstring injury.

[Ghost]

This post does pointto Bruce's philosophical dilemma. I don't think it's so cut and dry.

I think Bruce has been under the impression that he has two goals 2004 and 2006. He thinks of the 2004 qualifying is suited to the Vanneys and the Berhalters, while the youngsters are for 2006. Hence you get Greg Vanney, a serviceable but limited player pushing 30 occupying the left back spot, even though there probably isn't a person on this board that doesn't think that Gbandi or Gibbs or Dunivant or maybe Barrett won't be in that position come 2006.

I think this is a false split, and if we learned anything from this tournament, it's that. The talent is so much richer in the youth that it makes it hard to stand the Vanneys and the Kleins and the Kirovskis of the world. ANd I wiould much rather see Gbandi or Onyewu get their first serious cap in the British Virgin Islands than in Saprissa. But I suspect that Arena will continue to go this route. And to be fair, the team does need some experience on th field. I just wish it was higher quality experience, not retreads who are getting time only because of Bruce's fabled sense of loyalty..

[Martin Fischer]

My God, you guys are way too gentle.

Originally posted by Defenestration
seriously, what was the point of even going, Bruce? what was the friggin point...

As stated by Arena, the idea was to give some experience to young players and see how certain players do against semi-serious international competition. Maybe you aren't perceptive enought to learn about the players through this tourney, but other, include Arena are.

Originally posted by Defenestration
if you're gonna go young...then commit to going young. don't "half-as$" commit, like throwing 3 or 4 youngsters with berhalter (??!?), kirovski, and stewart et al. example: guys like martino. martino should have played 3 full games (if you're going in under these pretenses), not 60 friggin minutes. convey too. BTW, where on earth is Conor Casey, and why is Kirovski playing in his stead? i realize that pre-MLS we couldn't have done this, but I think now we can.

As Kempes and others said, old/young allows you to compete well enough to evaluate the young and new guys. Young/young is just chaos. As to your other points:

1. Convey played in all three games, starting two, no?

2. Without JOB and Reyna, Stewart was an absolute must to give us some midfield passing ability.

3. I think BA did a great job with Martino. He let him soak in the atmosphere and then got him 60 minutes where he played well. Martino will walk away from this competition believing he can compete at this level, which was the freaking point.

4. Kirovski was called up, because BA wants to know if he can still help us. BA admires skills and Kirovski has as many as any American. Maybe BA is being stubborn here, but it's hardly a major point when the Euro alternative, Casey, hardly played all year for his club.

Originally posted by Defenestration
if you're going to win...then commit all-out to winning. bring your best players: bring JOB, mcbride, sanneh, etc. Bruce, you can't have it both ways.

Look if you are going to post here, there is a basic level of knowledge that is required to avoid looking like an idiot. Of the top US players who were not called up, JOB, Reyna, Sanneh,Keller and Pope were injured. McBride was available but wanted to stay with his newborn first child and Friedel requested a break. In reality, BA had no other options.

Originally posted by Defenestration
this is what Brazil (and mainly every other major power in the world) does. when they go to a tournament, it's painfully obvious what their plan is. they either go to win, or they go to try out new players. THERE IS NO IN-BETWEEN. got that, Bruce? there is no in-between. playing guys like berhalter and kirovski does nothing but retard development of some young kid (i.e. casey).

As others have posted, Brazil and Turkey also brought a mix of young and old players.

Originally posted by Defenestration
why doesn't Bruce get this? we don't expect him to win everything, but if you're going over to experiment, then friggin experiment. you wasted a great opportunity for team growth and development, and what did you learn?? that greg berhalter is too slow for major international competition?? that greg vanney is simply a mediocre player?? good discoveries, Bruce, but I could have told you these things for free before the tournament...

It doesn't surprise me that BA wasn't willing to rely on your opinion.