Fred vs. Donnet How do each compare?

[Bolivianfuego]

What do you guys think of this comparison? Are you guys happy with the role that fred is providiing?

I'm not making this thread to start anything. I love Fred. His biggest pro's in my mind is his speed, and his relentlessness when going after the ball like dropping back for some D. His Con's, i believe so far whati have seen sometimes he has alot of trouble trapping a ball with alot of pressure around him, not enough 'brasiliero' in him, he plays very stiff, and just uses speed to get by people. Wish he were a tad bit more tricky.


Now from the limited time i watched Donnet play, Pro's - His dribbling from the limited amount of time showed to be really good! His cuts and control were something def. not seen in the MLS beyond jaime and Cristian. :p His passes and ideas on the field looked very similar to what schelotto is doing for columbus. And also another pro, he was a product of the boca juniors system. Also looked damn good on the wing, as he could crossCons - Would have to be at the time his fitness, and speed. He seemed kinda slow for the MLS on the wing, but then again that could have been fixed.

Now it was said that he was asking for too much and could not come to renegociate for a half way decent deal. IMO i feel he was worth it to maybe come around and work something out. I love fred and i feel he will grow with our team, but def. not on donnets level of skill or quality. He does have the tools to be half way decent with the MLS though, speed and power and not to mention Ganas(his dont give up attitude).

Now what do you guys think? Am i wrong? Am i seeing something that others don't? Or is it watever? Another one bites the dust....

[Hedbal]

I was not supportive of Donnett, but in retrospect I realize that it was because he seemed reluctant to play defense. We were using the 3-5-2 at that time and it was absolutely essential that the outside mids defend the touchline all the way to our goal line. Donnett did not do that, and I think I overlooked his considerable offensive capabilities. Now Fred has the luxury of playing in front of a four-man back line. He defends when needed, and defends well, but his defensive responsibilities are not as heavy as were Donnett's. If Donnett were here today playing in a 4-4-2, it might be a toss up as to which was the better player.

[WFU03]

I think you considerably overrate Donnet's capabilities.

He was very slow and I found his "vision" to be lacking and his creativity fairly limited.

I would take Fred over Donnet any day of the week.

[JoeW]

Both were good additions. It's not often you can add a proven veteran from a high league who's performed in big games. That's what we got with Donnet.

I'd go with Fred though.
1. He's more versatile (can be outside mid, withdrawn forward, A-mid)
2. He's more willing to get "stuck-in" and fight for balls or track back to help defend.
3. I think he's a better passer than Donnet.

That said, I think Donnet is a better pure outside mid: that's his position and he plays it well. He's a better fit for a 442 than a 352.

[Bolivianfuego]

I think you considerably overrate Donnet's capabilities.

He was very slow and I found his "vision" to be lacking and his creativity fairly limited.

I would take Fred over Donnet any day of the week.

I dont know, as a guy who's played and been obsessed with soccer for a very long time, i've seen alot of people with good touch, and can tell the difference in style between the two based on that. Donnet has that baby it like a egg, type which is common with SA's. For some reason Fred's touch is not as refined and i feel thats the big difference between the two. And also from what i saw, he seemed like a decent holding midfielder.As when he played they had trouble dispossessing him off the ball the limited times i saw him play.

Both were good additions. It's not often you can add a proven veteran from a high league who's performed in big games. That's what we got with Donnet.

I'd go with Fred though.
1. He's more versatile (can be outside mid, withdrawn forward, A-mid)
2. He's more willing to get "stuck-in" and fight for balls or track back to help defend.
3. I think he's a better passer than Donnet.

That said, I think Donnet is a better pure outside mid: that's his position and he plays it well. He's a better fit for a 442 than a 352.

Yea fred is alot more versatile. Its give or take, but i just feel we lost out on a good one, based on the talent and greatness i felt he had with the limited minutes he got.

[The Big VA]

Honestly, I liked Donnet and I love Fred. In all sincerity, I wish we had both. I think that would have been a great move for the club. Although, I am not sure the salary cap would have allowed it.

[Vasco]

night and day.

Fred is much better

[John L]

Hard to compare them -

Donnet came in the middle of the season, was quite out of shape and had a hard time finding his slot on the field or his mix in the team - Mostly outside in a 3-5-2 which didn't play to his strengths, or as a holding DMid which he didn't have the Defensive instincts for but was very calm on the ball and never gave it away - On Offense, he could dink the ball to open space near the goal but these were never anticipated by the forwards - He clearly had the instincts to come into the middle and be a Plan B for Gomez as AMid but his style was radically different, more like Riquelme's - He had one sparkling goal against NYRB that ensured the SSS and his play as a late sub sparked our comeback against NYRB in the playoffs - It just didn't happen a second time against NERev

Fred has come to us in shape and in form and from early on with the team - Its been a much smoother time for him - He seems to have a bit more speed than Donnet ever showed us, but not as much calm ball control - Oddly enoung a lot of great Brazilians don't necessarily have this eggshell control either - Fred is clearly Plan B for Gomez's style of a very active AMid

Who would I want now? - Probably Fred, but a lot of that is due to his age

[frcool]

I agree with Bolivian Fuego, Donnet has more quality than Fred, who I think has been very inconsistent, and especially bad in the Houston game. Donnet was great on the ball, made intelligent runs and didn't turn the ball over as much as Fred.

[Bolivianfuego]

Thats not to say that fred is terrible, but just over all i feel a tad bit more quality than fred. He'd be cool IMO to try out in our 4-4-2 style. If i could have my way i'd put fred on the left, and donnet on the right, and olsen as Def. mid. in the rear. That would be cool to try out with cristian right behind emilio and moreno.


But yea, think about it, Fred from second div. brazil team, and donnet fresh from the bench on boca from issues with the coach.

[griffin1108]

You can't compare the two. Donnet never got regular time with DCU and was really an auditioning late season player much like Filomeno the year before. Fred was brought in in the Spring to fill a starting position from jump street. Whether Donnet has more skill than Fred is an academic question because he never showed much with DCU and his new team in Argentina was relegated so he can't be the world savior some are now making him out to be.
Is Fred a poor man's Ronaldinho? Of course not. Is he a very good and serviceable MLS midfielder? Yes. Ask those two questions of Donnet and based on last year's performance, the honest answers are "no" and "I don't know."

[MattMathai]

I don't think this is a comparison you can make. They're both extremely talented players, but were tested under vastly different conditions.

I don't believe Donnet got a real chance to show his quality, and I'm not sure the team and formation were best suited to his skills. He had excellent touch and vision, and we saw his rocket of a shot. I'd love to see him on the right wing in our current system.

Fred is more a creator/linker kind of player. He also has excellent touch and vision.

You could do a lot worse than either player.

[Bolivianfuego]

You can't compare the two. Donnet never got regular time with DCU and was really an auditioning late season player much like Filomeno the year before. Fred was brought in in the Spring to fill a starting position from jump street. Whether Donnet has more skill than Fred is an academic question because he never showed much with DCU and his new team in Argentina was relegated so he can't be the world savior some are now making him out to be.
Is Fred a poor man's Ronaldinho? Of course not. Is he a very good and serviceable MLS midfielder? Yes. Ask those two questions of Donnet and based on last year's performance, the honest answers are "no" and "I don't know."


Are you sure your not talking about Filomenos Nueva Chicago? Which funny thing is has scored some banging goals with them everytime i would catch them LOL?

And donnet went to Cordoba who last i checked was not relegated.

And for those curious about age, both were about the same age:

Fred: August 18, 1979

Donnet: April 18, 1980

Fred is older.

I dunno, still want donnet back.

I don't think this is a comparison you can make. They're both extremely talented players, but were tested under vastly different conditions.

I don't believe Donnet got a real chance to show his quality, and I'm not sure the team and formation were best suited to his skills. He had excellent touch and vision, and we saw his rocket of a shot. I'd love to see him on the right wing in our current system.

Fred is more a creator/linker kind of player. He also has excellent touch and vision.

You could do a lot worse than either player.

Yea true, they both did come in at wrong times. like i said above and agree with you, i'd love to see benny in d-mid in the back, fred on the left and donnet on the right, with cristian in the middle.

But i still think donnet although not as fast, still more quality by the pound, and younger!!

[ursula]

But if you are bringing Benny into the conversation, this year has shown that not only is Olsen a better 442 winger than a d-mid but I'd take him first of the three (Olsen, Donnet, and Fred) to play for United on the wing. Benny's play on the wing shows that skill on the ball is not the most important quality after a certain skill level is reached. Benny's off the ball movement is just so much better than Donnet's its not funny.

I liked Donnet last year. He's a good little player; lots of skill on the ball. He would be interesting to see in this year's 442 since it would have fit him better. But he wouldn't have shown clearly superior ability and that defense and speed is not something you can just overlook. I think I would still be seeing a defensive hole on his side of the field.

Fred is a work in progress. How he fits long-term is still not clear- especially if Gomez leaves. But overall I like his willingness to try to blend in and I like his feistiness. Its clear that he's skilled enough. To me his best days for United are in the future.

[ionprovisioner]

Funny to read this thread title - I was thinking about this just the other day.

Donnet, to me, is/was a missed opportunity; as everyone's said, his fitness wasn't terrific, and since Nowak was 3-5-2 'til death, that screwed him, big-time. If he'd come in when Fred did, and played with the team in a 4-4-2, I think we'd all be falling over ourselves, saying 'whatta find.'

Fred's got a better 'engine,' but his touch, vision and craft with the ball aren't up to Matias' standard, imo. Put Donnet on the right side of a 4-man midfield, with a defender to cover, and Emilio'd have 12 goals by now, and DCU another 2-3 points in the standings.

Looks like that ship has sailed, though. And of course, I could be just bass-ackwards wrong about everything. Wouldn't be the first time.

[Red&Black]

i don't think fred has great speed, in fact no one at united right now is really fast and frankly we seem to be the slowest team in the league. i think fred is a bit more dynamic than donnet but i think donnet might have been useful this year when teams play a bunch of guys behind the ball, you usually need to take your time and try to break down a massed defense, he had the vision and ball skills to do that. fred is certainly better at taking guys on and in the last couple of games he did very well tracking back and defending.

i think mls is pretty much an athlete's league these days and fred seems to be the better athlete.

[DCUtd]

I liked Donnet a lot, and like everyone else points out, it is difficult to compare the two given different coaches, formation, and amounts of playing time. I think overall Donnet was/is a better player, but Fred seems like he is adapting to the style of play that Soehn is asking of him better than Donnet did to Nowak - for whatever reason. Didn't Fred play more central and up top before he came to DC? And Soehn said earlier in the season that Fred has come a long way to get used to playing on the outside and would rather keep him there as he was just getting used to it than put him up top while Jaime was away. Donnet, I think, was in his normal spot, but not used to the 3-5-2. 4-3-1-2 like now would have served him well. I am curious if he had some sort of anticipation of MLS being easy for him. A friend of mine at work who is an huge Independiente supportor told me MLS must suck because Gomito was the league MVP last year, but at Independiente the fans called him a donkey because he sucked so bad. If Donnet had the same impression (that Gomez was critical to United, and therefore he would be even more important), then I am sure it would have impacted his ability to transition - but that is all PURE speculation and conjecture (something that really doesn't belong on the BS boards, right?)

What I am really curious about, though, is what would have happened if Filomeno had been given more of a chance up front alongside Moreno. In a way, we had Gomez, Moreno, Donnet and Filomeno under Nowak, and Soehn exchanged two of them for Brazilians (I know, that is a little bit of revisionist history, but bear with me). Lucio scores a bunch of goals in Australia, Filomeno finally finds his stride back in Argentina.... Donnet on one wing, Fred on the other... What if Nowak had switched to a 4-4-2 instead?

Ahh, who cares. He won the Supporters Shield, Lucio got relegated, and their fans will be banned for probably 20 home games next season, while Donnet barely escaped relegation. One week Fred and Lucio light up the attack, the next Fred didn't come off the line fast enough, and Lucio hit the keeper in the chest on a one-on-one. Any given week, anything can happen.

[Bolivianfuego]

Yea he did play more of a C. Gomez role for the Victory or so i hear, I dont think he anticipated it being so easy, because i remember him in an interview after he got released and was playing in cordoba already, talking nice about DC and how they should not underestimate our league, how its physical, and alot better than alot think.

Im a little confused by what you said? Lucio didnt play in australia, he came from korea before dc, and didnt do much there but was a hero in jaguares for mexico. Always scoring game winning goals. And yes filomeno did find his old ways sorta with nueva chicago, i think playing against san lorenzo the league champs scoring 2 against them in one game.

It would be cool to see how he woulda done with jaime, but i sorta like Emilio with DC better. I wish we'd try to recontact donnet though and see if he'd come back.

------Moreno-------------Emilio-------
----------------Gomez------------------
Fred---------------------------Donnet
----------------Olsen---------------------

This IMO would be friggin cool to see.

[hincha]

They Both Suck!

[DCUtd]

Im a little confused by what you said? Lucio didnt play in australia, he came from korea before dc, and didnt do much there but was a hero in jaguares for mexico. Always scoring game winning goals. And yes filomeno did find his old ways sorta with nueva chicago, i think playing against san lorenzo the league champs scoring 2 against them in one game.


Oops. I got my players confused. I said Lucio when I was thinking of Fred, but confusing him with Emilio. What I really meant to say was Emilio scored a bunch of goals in Honduras (it was Honduras, right?). Man I don't know where my head was when I wrote that... :confused: