Canada at the U-20s : Abysmal performance

[Soccerfever]

Can someone please tell me why the hell has no one opened a thread about Canada's showing at the U-20 after our elimination?This is so worrying as I thought(and probably many of us) that it was a new beginning for this sport in Canada,that it was a time to show the people of Canada that there is hope for the future,that it was a time to put football/soccer on the map in this country. We could have shown so much with an event held like this in our backyard.What did we show after more than 4 hours of open play? We showed that we are awful finishers (especially against Congo). 3 matches played,3 goals conceeded against Chile,1 against Austria and 2 against Congo for a total of 6 overall and we couldn't even score once and to top it all, we couldn't do this as the host team, we had the crowd behind us and even that wasn't enough.

So we have now made history as the first host country in the history of this tournament(starting 30 years ago) to fail to score a goal...Sad but true.

I don't know for you guys but I'm in total disbelief!So where do we stand now? We got owned all over the park in a group that was not the easiest,but not the most difficult finishing DEAD LASTin the overall standings...we've reached rock bottom!

Now I wonder what Dale Mitchell will say to defend that craptacular showing,he almost has no excuses.

Asimir Begovic(sp?): My god what was the matter with him blocking the ball with his hands outside the penalty area when he could have chested it or headed it!Is that our future senior goalkeeper?Man what is it with our keepers that they cannot leave the penalty area without consequences afterwards(cough,cough,Greg Sutton agianst Guadeloupe)

Attacking players: Good opportunites but shoot way too much wide,over the crossbar on the goalkeeper but never in the back of the net.

I know that our players gave their best out there but it makes you wonder,doesn't it?We can't act as if it didn't happen.We really should discuss this as it's alarming and we need some answers and explanations.

One thing is for sure, what this country needs is a PROFESSIONAL LEAGUE of it's own!The USL is NOT ENOUGH(3 semipro clubs,way to go!),so is Toronto FC(One pro club in an American league.Btw,the players scoring the goals are mostly Americans there,this does very little for our national team, F*ck Kevan Pipe).
And after what I saw,I'm not sure that most of Canada's players play first team football with their clubs, proof is that both backup goalkeepers were clubless! :confused:

With a Canadian pro league, I remind you that our men players at almost every level will play first team football regularly and won't be signed by clubs in Europe just to sit on the substitutes bench and seeing almost no action with their club teams only to come back home match unfit.I don't know for the rest of Canada but here in Quebec we have more and more soccer registered players every year,these young kids need shelters,they need to get their first opportunity at the pro level in our/their homeland, then overseas.It will be easier for Scouts in Europe to look for Canadian players then as they will get exposed.This will also make it easier for the coach aswell as he'll have a better vision on our players instead of having to check them in Germany,Norway,Scotland,the Netherlands etc...

We have the potential to make it a three way race at the of CONCACAF,yet since our players do not play regularly together, then there's no chemistry amongst the players on the pitch. I mean, some of our boys don't know each other prior to training camp days before a match, this leaves little time to build a strong unit.

We have proven that we have a good fanbase not only by showing in numbers at this event,but also by showing it with our women's team,with the AS Roma-Glasgow Celtic match 3 years ago in Toronto. So far,the interest is there.

The CSA's top priority should be the formation of a local pro league.Damn!What are these guys doing for Canada Soccer?It's 2007 for Christ sake!They have to do something better than what they have given us so far.

In the meantime, maybe that this is what was needed/deserved for the CSA to finally wake up and start making things happen. Take that CSA!!! :mad:

Now I want to here from all of you Canadian soccerfans,what's your thought on all this?Anything you would like to add?Speak up!

[maestri09]

Perhaps the U-20, somewhere, also felt like they had to save Canadian soccer. I mean, that was basically the theme of these U-20's: How Canada has grown in soccer. The pressure of showing the entire country how good they are, plus the fact that they weren't prepared for this tournament, was too much for them.

Heck, even Canada's National Hockey team couldn't shake off the media scrutiny regarding Wayne Gretzky's wife and that gambling ring. So it can happen to anyone.

[Captain Canuck]

And after what I saw,I'm not sure that most of Canada's players play first team football with their clubs, proof is that both backup goalkeepers were clubless! :confused:



Most of Canada's players at this level don't play first team football, but we could have told you that before the tourney started. Peters started to for Ipswich, Lombardo & Gala got some minutes for TFC, Edgar got a couple of starts for an injury-plagued Newcastle team, that's about it. Everybody else plays for the reserves or youth squads, not surprising given that they are youth players.

However, this U20 team probably featured more players with professional clubs than any previous one. If you think that aspect was bad now, it was probably worse before.

[SCHNUGGLEZ]

We have proven that we have a good fanbase not only by showing in numbers at this event,but also by showing it with our women's team,with the AS Roma-Glasgow Celtic match 3 years ago in Toronto. So far,the interest is there.


Ironically the games featuring Canada actually had some of the emptiest, quietest stands. Meanwhile the other games featuring exciting teams have been packed with non-WASP ("ethnic") Canadians fans supporting....well, every team except boring Canada. These are the same fans that shell the big money when a major international friendly comes to town.

Would they show up for a Canadian Soccer League match in financially-sustainable numbers?

MLS as an emerging pro North American league (still barely over a decade old) has been one of the best things to happen to Canadian soccer. A solid mid-level place to develop coaches and the players.

Toronto FC's naming of an international coach is rather unprecedented for a Canadian pro team - and that is exactly where Team Canada needs to begin changing if it wants to take the next professional steps out of mediocrity.

It's good to see some Canadian fans vehemently not accepting this disaster.

[DLee]

It's just one tournament - you guys are definately still on the way up. Any team can have 3 tough games.

The most important thing is World Cup qualifying for the senior team, which you are in good postion for. And like you said, the soccer culture/general fanbase is outstanding - much better than the US.

[Soccerfever]

Thanks to the guys who replied to my thread!

To the others: What's the matter?Howcome almost no one but a few are ready to talk about this seriously?Where are the so called fans of Canadian soccer?Are you out of words?Too ashamed??Did you guys give up or what??Are most of you bandwaggoners?Ignoring what has happened as if it never happened when a ton of you guys started a tons of threads about Canada's U-20 team before the tournament kicked off...

Posters like you make me sick as they cannot handle the truth and are simply running away from the problem not wanting to clear things up...

[TFC07]

Take it easy. I am sure other Canadian fans are just disappointed as you are. Yes, we do have a problem of Canadians rooting for non-Canadian teams, but generally speaking, Canada is heading the right direction. Soccer is becoming one of the fastest growing sports in Canada. I am not too worried about U20 team. These kids have a lot to learn still. It wasn't like they were playing peak of their careers. I am sure most of these kids will develop to be decent soccer players and some of them might be playing for Men's team in the future. The future does look bright for Canada. Cheer up!

GO CANADA! :)

[NS Rooney]

Yes, it was a awful performance and there is no one to blame but the CSA! To this day they are not developing and, more importantly, identifying youth players. Check the NTC scouting schedules. Outside of Ontario you almost never see a CSA scout or coach. What on earth do these guys - and yes they're all guys - do with their time? Untill such time as there is a domestic league, the CSA needs to identify younger players and make sure they have good training and not just on the technical side but tactically, physically...
That was the idea behind the National Training Centres but, unfortunatly, they put the cart before the horse. They didn't have qualified coaches in place. Like the politicians they are, they appointed (I won't say hired because they pay next to nothing) coaches who wouldn't show them up and in some cases they -CSA staff - actually got rid of good people probably for that very reason. Like any nonprofit or not-for-profit the CSA is not being held to a bottom line. In the case of youth training the bottom line should be, simply, "how many good young players have you found/developed this year?" CSA staff should be out all over the country scouting and training coaches. Kill two birds with one stone and use the best young players as demo players while training coaches. As far as I can tell, at the moment if a CSA staff person actually shows up at a 4 day scouting weekend, he might spend 10 hours working. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Volunteer club coaches spend more time than that because they love the game. If I'm not wrong, would someone please tell me these CSA "professionals" actually do with the time paid for by all the soccer clubs, volunteers and parents across Canada. Oh, and all the kids who do fund raisers also pay their salaries.

[truwarier90]

lets face it the team canada lacked talent, they depended on edgar too much, the kid is overrated, he played one game, scored a fluke goal, and the media was hyping him up to be the next george best, if edgar was so good, newcastle would have started him for the rest of the year. Canada needs some brazilian coaches, joga bonito style of players, 3 forwards up front and some decent marketing.

[NS Rooney]

lets face it the team canada lacked talent, they depended on edgar too much, the kid is overrated, he played one game, scored a fluke goal, and the media was hyping him up to be the next george best, if edgar was so good, newcastle would have started him for the rest of the year. Canada needs some brazilian coaches, joga bonito style of players, 3 forwards up front and some decent marketing.

Overated? He not only scored the fluke goal but, he spent half the game marking Giggs and the other half marking Renaldo, successfully! There were two centre backs if I'm not mistaken. So if you were expecting Edgar to be the TWO best centre backs at the tournament, at the same time, then, yeah, he was over rated.
Just in case you didn't get my point, they had to depend on Edgar because the other centre back was missing in action, most of the time.

[Kingston]

One thing is for sure, what this country needs is a PROFESSIONAL LEAGUE of it's own!The USL is NOT ENOUGH(3 semipro clubs,way to go!),so is Toronto FC(One pro club in an American league.Btw,the players scoring the goals are mostly Americans there,this does very little for our national team, F*ck Kevan Pipe).

No, seriously, tell us how you're really feeling.

Yes, our U20 team got shellacked in this tournament. No one, least of all the players, I'm sure, is happy about this. To keep it in perspective, however, some of the other countries that are also going home early are Scotland, South Korea, and Costa Rica which are decent soccer sides. Brazil barely managed to sneak in as the last third-place team only one goal ahead of Costa Rica. It's not an easy tournament and Canada is not a soccer power.

As for your suggestion that Canada have its own professional league - yes, this would be great. Unfortunately, it isn't going to happen any time soon. You can blame the CSA all you want but that's not going to help. Unless you think the CSA has the power to magically conjure up seven more professional teams with proper stadia and average attendances of 10 000 or more but has just been holding out on us for no good reason.

[kai leung]

The lack of pro-leagues as an excuse for our failure? I heard the same reasons from Bobby Lenarduzzi during the tournament it's bull. Tell me what what standard of pro league does the Congo, Zambia, Jordon or Gambia have? Many african countries have nothing more than a semi-pro league, many play on dirt fields envy our facilities.

Our NT players playing away from home in Europe hinders their training true, but again many third world countries have the same problem.

Another excuse offered "We don't put enough money into the MNT." again some of the countries that kick our butts are dirt poor so the lack of cash does not hinder them.

The problem as I see it was touched on by Lenarduzzi "we good technically", no wonder the man is not our NT coach anymore. We suck technically. Repeatedly putting shot 10 meters over the bar, lack of first touch, not being able to routinely deliver a simple cross into the penalty area are signs of technical deficiencies.

The basic problem with Canadian soccer as I see it ....grassroots training, 5-8 yr olds. CSA can throw millions at the MNT but it will wasted unless the system that feeds the top is corrected. Creativity is stifled by parent volunteer coaches who know nothing of the game because senior coaches view working with the little people as dull babysitting. We would be better off not having any coaches at this level as the damage they do is permanent. Third world countries whose development programs are nothing more than street soccer consistently produce more technically proficient players than we do.

[andythemick]

Yes, Canada had a poor performance. But, in my opinion at least, being the host at a Youth World Cup has almost the exact opposite impact of hosting a senior-level World Cup, especially for a nation like Canada. Think about the pressure that was put on these kids by hosting the tournament, then add to that the fact that most of these kids have never experienced the pressure of playing with any regularity at a high level. And, again unlike a senior WC, they didn't have the advantage of huge crowd support a la Germany in 2006 or Korea in 2002.

Losing to Gambia should never happen, but its not like they're the Faroe Islands. They are a highly athletic team with nothing to lose, and Canada was in a must-win situation, with the added pressure of letting their home fans down. Sorry to sound like a psychiatrist or something, but it was an uphill battle from the start.

[Soccerfever]

The lack of pro-leagues as an excuse for our failure? I heard the same reasons from Bobby Lenarduzzi during the tournament it's bull. Tell me what what standard of pro league does the Congo, Zambia, Jordon or Gambia have? Many african countries have nothing more than a semi-pro league, many play on dirt fields envy our facilities.

You heard me right!The thing is with the countries that you've mentionned above is the fact that these yougsters play at the same level in the same league(pro or semi-pro)which helps them to adapt to a common style of play.So the players of these leagues know each other by playing with/against each other week in,week out and this is the result after a few years of chemistry,you have a better understanding of your teamates on the pitch,by then you know their weaknesses,their strengts.The coach then makes out of this the best lineup possible..Unlike us where the players don't know jack about each other prior to the training camp days before the match!Remember how Congo burned us with their first chance after we had a few ourselves?Better understanding of their teamates than us!

For example: Look how a lack of communication between Greg Sutton and his defenders against Guadeloupe @ the GC helped to concede a goal that shouldn't have been scored against us in the first place!Sutton knows sh*t about the guys in front of him so he doesn't know how they will react and he decides to take a chance by getting forward when his freakin defenders are covering for him but he runs towards the ball anyway only to be caught in no man's land...

Also like I said,We're one country with lots of potential!We could be a powerhouse in CONCACAF not far behind the US!I believe that we are one of a very few rich countries that does not have a league of it's own!It's 2007 and football/soccer is growing at a fast rate in most countries so it's about time to show the rest of the world that we are not only good at hockey and curling.

[guppy]

The problem as I see it was touched on by Lenarduzzi "we good technically", no wonder the man is not our NT coach anymore. We suck technically.

From what I read (very recently), Lenarduzzi was also criticized for being *naive tactically*, just like Mitchell. He himself said that he failed at making proper coaching adjustments.

He was the first Canadian to coach the team. He had two shots at WC qualifying and failed. People complained back then of the poor on-field performance of Canada in the final round of CONCACAF qualifiers.

This included a 1-6-3 record in the last qualifier he was involved in.

Now he's telling us what's wrong. Yikes.

Looking back, everything screams at changing the pattern, but they don't do it. After Lenarduzzi resigned in 1997, this was what CSA said:

"the CSA can't afford a million-dollar coaching contract for Lenarduzzi's replacement, but there will be an "attractive package for a first-class, qualified individual." :mad:

Same penny-pinching on a most important aspect back then!! CSA repeats itself ...

[NS Rooney]

The lack of pro-leagues as an excuse for our failure? I heard the same reasons from Bobby Lenarduzzi during the tournament it's bull. Tell me what what standard of pro league does the Congo, Zambia, Jordon or Gambia have? Many african countries have nothing more than a semi-pro league, many play on dirt fields envy our facilities.

Our NT players playing away from home in Europe hinders their training true, but again many third world countries have the same problem.

Another excuse offered "We don't put enough money into the MNT." again some of the countries that kick our butts are dirt poor so the lack of cash does not hinder them.

The problem as I see it was touched on by Lenarduzzi "we good technically", no wonder the man is not our NT coach anymore. We suck technically. Repeatedly putting shot 10 meters over the bar, lack of first touch, not being able to routinely deliver a simple cross into the penalty area are signs of technical deficiencies.

The basic problem with Canadian soccer as I see it ....grassroots training, 5-8 yr olds. CSA can throw millions at the MNT but it will wasted unless the system that feeds the top is corrected. Creativity is stifled by parent volunteer coaches who know nothing of the game because senior coaches view working with the little people as dull babysitting. We would be better off not having any coaches at this level as the damage they do is permanent. Third world countries whose development programs are nothing more than street soccer consistently produce more technically proficient players than we do.

Ahh Men! I agree with all that but, unfortunatly, there are very few coaches at the grass roots level. And provincial and club politics is even worse than at the CSA. There are more good, experienced soccer people who tried their hand at the grass roots level only to be discouraged or p***ed off and they either quit trying to coach or left town. There are a number of these people coaching at the NCAA, USL Super Y, prep schools... The first thing that has to happen is that the CSA functionaries and bureaucrats have to be replaced with good soccer people who understand that their job is to spend time outside of Toronto/Vaughn travelling the country training coaches and helping them to identify young talent.

[NS Rooney]

You heard me right!The thing is with the countries that you've mentionned above is the fact that these yougsters play at the same level in the same league(pro or semi-pro)which helps them to adapt to a common style of play.So the players of these leagues know each other by playing with/against each other week in,week out and this is the result after a few years of chemistry,you have a better understanding of your teamates on the pitch,by then you know their weaknesses,their strengts.The coach then makes out of this the best lineup possible..Unlike us where the players don't know jack about each other prior to the training camp days before the match!Remember how Congo burned us with their first chance after we had a few ourselves?Better understanding of their teamates than us!

For example: Look how a lack of communication between Greg Sutton and his defenders against Guadeloupe @ the GC helped to concede a goal that shouldn't have been scored against us in the first place!Sutton knows sh*t about the guys in front of him so he doesn't know how they will react and he decides to take a chance by getting forward when his freakin defenders are covering for him but he runs towards the ball anyway only to be caught in no man's land...

Also like I said,We're one country with lots of potential!We could be a powerhouse in CONCACAF not far behind the US!I believe that we are one of a very few rich countries that does not have a league of it's own!It's 2007 and football/soccer is growing at a fast rate in most countries so it's about time to show the rest of the world that we are not only good at hockey and curling.

Here is what I read about the Congo team: The coach was hired 2 years before the U20 Tournament. The first thing he did was travel the country
looking for talent and then spent the rest of that time period working with the team. It is my understanding that few if any of these young men were playing pro or even semi-pro. He just found them wherever he could. This is similar to how the Brazilian women's team got started. Only a few years ago Brazillian girls were discouraged from playing the beautiful game.
They developed so quickly because they had coaches who knew and loved the game. Maybe the CSA could find a few of these people.

[kai leung]

Ahh Men! I agree with all that but, unfortunatly, there are very few coaches at the grass roots level. And provincial and club politics is even worse than at the CSA. There are more good, experienced soccer people who tried their hand at the grass roots level only to be discouraged or p***ed off and they either quit trying to coach or left town. There are a number of these people coaching at the NCAA, USL Super Y, prep schools... The first thing that has to happen is that the CSA functionaries and bureaucrats have to be replaced with good soccer people who understand that their job is to spend time outside of Toronto/Vaughn travelling the country training coaches and helping them to identify young talent.

Contrary to popular belief, there have been many excellent soccer people in the CSA both at the technical level and bureaucratic types. And having know a number of them over the years I can assure they do search the country for talent, but there will always be someone overlooked..
But I do agree that politics drives many people away myself being one, 28 yrs of political infighting with various associations, clubs and parents have worn me out, I'll coach no more.

In my opinion Soccer in Canada is too much a democratic feel good operation valuing participation above all else. It comes from the failure to have a complete separation of the technical and administrative sides of soccer. Too often administrative people often parent volunteers with no soccer background interfere in technical development.
What is needed is a Dictatorial system where Technical people rule and whose sole motivation should be attaining excellence not participation. I have an acquaintance a former Provincial Technical Director an excellent A-Level coach. He knew what was needed to help develop our game but was afraid to implement change for fear of losing his job by annoying the masses of soccer ignorant parents who held the democratic power to remove him from his job. I know of no other soccer organization in the world where parents are given a voice in technical decisions, can you imagine the KNVB, English FA or Brasil's soccer assocations taking direction from parents?

[Soccerfever]

Maybe the best thing to do would be to start from scratch...