Why are people surprised that germany...

[Borussia]

It's not like holland have played the nice style of football all the time either.

Also, in the years that borussia mentioned, (82-88 and 92-96), at times germany did play a nice style, except it wasn't the rule.

It was only from 98-04 that it was really bad.


Even in this period I remember a few games (friendlies & competitive ones, especially during the Völler era) against top teams like Holland, Brazil, France or Italy, when we played at least for 45 minutes impressive attacking football although we lost these games.

In the final 2002 against Brasil, we showed a very decent performance in technical & tactical aspect ... and this without Ballack. The same in the group stage of the Euro 2004, when we dominated Holland and the Czechs for a large period of the game, but lacked some luck in important moments (the embarrassing 0:0 draw against Estland was the reason for the failure in my eyes). Some people say, that Germany simply can't win important matches if we play well...so it's better to play badly and go through. ;)

However, I have to agree with @ Neeskens that such moments didn't happen too often in the 80s and 90s and that we weren't neccessarily "famous" for playing a very creative and attacking football style (that's why I often admired the Dutch way of celebrating a game, although they weren't really successful)! I think this is also the main reason for the latest hype around our current squad. The fans identify themselves with this new young team and the offensive style invented by Klinsmann/Löw ... i'd even call it a new "pride"!

[squidward123]

In world cup it wasn't only ballack that was missing. Scholl and Deisler didn't play either.

A reason why in the 80s and 90s germany were not "famous" for that is that after the 82 world cup, thanks to the english press, the german team was seen in only way. Even though they played really nice football sometimes.

Who becomes "famous" for what is determined by how much the press want to exaggerate things.

Right now, argentina are back on top of the world apparently, and play the nicest football again after some good performances in the copa america. English press loves to hype them up.

[Dead Fingers]

In world cup it wasn't only ballack that was missing. Scholl and Deisler didn't play either.



And Nowotny and possibly Zickler, though Zickler would pick up an injury by just breathing.

[squidward123]

And Nowotny and possibly Zickler, though Zickler would pick up an injury by just breathing.

I only named the attacking players. Woerns was missing too.

At a time when there weren't lots of great players, missing scholl and deisler really did not help.

Of course the press in england are still trying to cover up the fact that scholl and deisler ever existed ;)

[Borussia]

Of course the press in england are still trying to cover up the fact that scholl and deisler ever existed ;)

Who cares for the English press (especially the Murdoch yellow press called "Sun"), squid? I don't think it's the only one in the world...

[squidward123]

Who cares for the English press (especially the Murdoch yellow press called "Sun"), squid? I don't think it's the only one in the world...

Yes, who cares, but it IS the most influential

[Mad2Ad]

Right now, argentina are back on top of the world apparently, and play the nicest football again after some good performances in the copa america. English press loves to hype them up.

For ********s sake theres not even any English people duscussing this and we're getting ********ing slated. I dont think its soley down to the English press that Germany has a reputation ofplaying highly organised efficient football. Why does most of europe dislike England.

People say that some English people still hold a grudge( i think it was an Australian) well i dont know where this has come from because its not really true. The war is now only mentioned in terms of a joke and if you think its a grudge then its simply not understanding our sense of homour. If Germans are mentioned in any conversation its usualy through a joke that is not really what people truely belive i mean a certain post mentioned a tv show and a discussion on Germans ( its a ********in comedy tv show its not serious you tit). I for one genuinely like most Germans as they are very very friendly or at least in comparison to other conurties i have been to they are. Normally not very arragont(Arragonce is something English people hate)

Normally if the English press print something they will always exagerate their view to get it accross to people. This is what everyone does to get their opinion heard. You did it earlier in the post by comparing the great German sides to Brazil and Holland etc in terms of attacking flair etc.
By the way you do know theres suppose to be a rivilary between England and Argentina dont you. Now your just contradicting yourself about English press beeing biased. If they were so biased then surely the press would be putting the Argintinian team down rather then hyping them up.

Personally i was not surprised by the German performance in last years world cup i expected them to do about aswell as they did. I mean from seeing how Euro 96 made a poor England team play i understand how beeing the host nation can inspire a team. in Euro 96 England played some lovely football ie England 4 : 1 Holland. against Germany we played well at times. the gazza goal etc. To me it is more interesting to see how Germany continues to play after the world cup will they sustain there good attackin play. personally i think they will but not quite to the world cup standard.

[dor02]

People say that some English people still hold a grudge( i think it was an Australian) well i dont know where this has come from because its not really true. The war is now only mentioned in terms of a joke and if you think its a grudge then its simply not understanding our sense of homour. If Germans are mentioned in any conversation its usualy through a joke that is not really what people truely belive i mean a certain post mentioned a tv show and a discussion on Germans ( its a ********in comedy tv show its not serious you tit).I guess you would refering to me. ;)

We did mention something in another thread about the English sense of humour. Bizarre. Even in some form of media that are non-comical, it doesn't seem that the English are really joking in regards to the Germans.

in Euro 96 England played some lovely football ie England 4 : 1 Holland. against Germany we played well at times. the gazza goal etc.I haven't seen too much of that England team but from what I saw, they played very well. Why can't English teams play more like that?

[nicephoras]

Good lord is this an odd thread. Germans win, do it methodically on a semi-regular basis (in fact, many would argue that in their 3 world cup wins they were either not the best side or won a terrible WC) and have won 3 WCs and 3 ECs and then........complain about a lack of respect? Good grief. What's next, Italians complaining about no one giving them any offensive respect despite scoring 3 goals in the 82 final?
You're lucky enough to support a country that wins a lot. And yet here you are complaining about the English media for it. I have to tell you, the English media doesn't care. They are FAR too busy slating their own national team to bother with you lot.

[squidward123]

For ********s sake theres not even any English people duscussing this and we're getting ********ing slated. I dont think its soley down to the English press that Germany has a reputation ofplaying highly organised efficient football. Why does most of europe dislike England.


It is. They've made it look like all german teams played a certain way. Not only the worst ones.

The worst did play organised and efficiently, but why paint all teams with the same brush?


Normally if the English press print something they will always exagerate their view to get it accross to people. This is what everyone does to get their opinion heard. You did it earlier in the post by comparing the great German sides to Brazil and Holland etc in terms of attacking flair etc.

I was not exaggerating. Watch those teams first.


By the way you do know theres suppose to be a rivilary between England and Argentina dont you. Now your just contradicting yourself about English press beeing biased. If they were so biased then surely the press would be putting the Argintinian team down rather then hyping them up.

Yeah that's true but for some reason, being south american they get the hype for beautiful football. I mean at last year's world cup, they were the ones hyped up despite germany playing 4 games consistently of very nice football, while argentina produced about 2 in all.

Argentina still will get talked of as cheats etc though. Portugal will have that tag too.


Personally i was not surprised by the German performance in last years world cup i expected them to do about aswell as they did. I mean from seeing how Euro 96 made a poor England team play i understand how beeing the host nation can inspire a team. in Euro 96 England played some lovely football ie England 4 : 1 Holland. against Germany we played well at times. the gazza goal etc. To me it is more interesting to see how Germany continues to play after the world cup will they sustain there good attackin play. personally i think they will but not quite to the world cup standard.

The fact is that england in 96 and germany in 2006 were not poor at all. The media make up one story before the tournament, and the truth is something else.

Ince, gascoige, mcmanaman and anderton had technical ability that the current midfield don't have.

You're right england played some lovely stuff in some games (except the swiss game for most part and most part of the spain game), and I reckon actually had the better of the game in the 90 mins v/s germany (mind you we were a real skeleton crew). In extra time germany slightly shaded. But that england team was one for england to be proud of. For any country to be proud of.

Germany since the world cup have improved 1.5 times (literally) as a team and play better attacking football now.

[squidward123]

Good lord is this an odd thread. Germans win, do it methodically on a semi-regular basis (in fact, many would argue that in their 3 world cup wins they were either not the best side or won a terrible WC) and have won 3 WCs and 3 ECs and then........complain about a lack of respect?


No. Just pointing out facts. It doesn't matter what else the german team has achieved historically.


Good grief. What's next, Italians complaining about no one giving them any offensive respect despite scoring 3 goals in the 82 final?

They sure as hell could ask that question about world cup 2006.

Like I am doing. Ask about certain teams.

Why do the best brazilian, dutch and french teams stand for all of their teams while the worst german team stand for all german teams.

Especially when the title winning german ones have all been attacking, attractive, flair teams.

What is severely underrated is that despite germany being poor in group stage 1 of the world cup in 1974...

(Yes, german teams have had internal problems that undermine the team unlike what we're led to believe! Schoen was THIS close to dropping the entire team and calling up a new one on the eve of the tournament thanks to pay disputes, and then everyone in the camp was in a bad mood as they were held in prisoner like security conditions due to munich olympics, and then at the end of group stage 1, schoen fell into a depression and germany had no official coach. Beckenbauer unofficially took over. Even after the tournament the players were so pissed off at the DFB not allowing wives into the celebration dinner that they went off on their own and didn't attend the official thing)

...that in group stage 2, germany were really really good. Pretty much as good as Holland. Beating yugoslavia 2-0 (very strong team as was sweden), sweden 4-2 (superb exhibition of passing football despite the torrential rain) and poland 1-0 (same as sweden, and poland were arguably the best team of that world cup) is not something to sneeze at, yet that's what the press have managed to do since that world cup.

And in the final, holland were outplayed and should have lost 4-1. That was a pretty good entertaining game too.

The press make it look like holland were not the ones in their first ever post world war tournament, and germany were not the ones in the middle of a great era, and that germany came out of the blue in that tournament before the final.


You're lucky enough to support a country that wins a lot. And yet here you are complaining about the English media for it. I have to tell you, the English media doesn't care. They are FAR too busy slating their own national team to bother with you lot.

They don't care as much as they care about the english team, but at every opportunity, the german team will get put down and every german team will be painted with the 1982 brush.

Have you watched "world cup stories - germany", the bbc six part series before last year's world cup? Not good.

[nicephoras]

Especially when the title winning german ones have all been attacking, attractive, flair teams.

Look, I'd be tempted to have some sympathy for you except that you've got a chip on your shoulder the size of a boulder and you've just called the 1990 German team "attractive flair" team. Or the 96 one.

You're trying to have your cake and eat it too. And its all in your mind. Most people don't care about 1982 at all.

[squidward123]

Look, I'd be tempted to have some sympathy for you except that you've got a chip on your shoulder the size of a boulder and you've just called the 1990 German team "attractive flair" team. Or the 96 one.

You're trying to have your cake and eat it too. And its all in your mind. Most people don't care about 1982 at all.

You assume that it's a chip on my shoulder. It's not.

Ok, not the 1996 one. But then again it could have been if literally half the squad were not out by the time the final came around.

The 1990 one certainly played very attacking attractive football and were the most attacking of that tournament. Definitely more attractive than brazil 2002, but not as attractive as the other german teams I'm talking about that won trophies.

1982 - people don't care about it specifically, but it's where the image of german football has come from. It's what fuelled the "same brush" thing with the press.

[nicephoras]

You assume that it's a chip on my shoulder. It's not.

I was being optimistic.

Ok, not the 1996 one. But then again it could have been if literally half the squad were not out by the time the final came around.

Cry me a river. You bloody won! YOU WON. Jebus.

The 1990 one certainly played very attacking attractive football and were the most attacking of that tournament. Definitely more attractive than brazil 2002, but not as attractive as the other german teams I'm talking about that won trophies.

Oh, what a joke. 1990 was a dour WC all around, for practically every country.

1982 - people don't care about it specifically, but it's where the image of german football has come from. It's what fuelled the "same brush" thing with the press.

No it hasn't. No it didn't. You're paranoid to a ludicrous degree.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

You assume that it's a chip on my shoulder. It's not.

Ok, not the 1996 one. But then again it could have been if literally half the squad were not out by the time the final came around.

The 1990 one certainly played very attacking attractive football and were the most attacking of that tournament. Definitely more attractive than brazil 2002, but not as attractive as the other german teams I'm talking about that won trophies.

1982 - people don't care about it specifically, but it's where the image of german football has come from. It's what fuelled the "same brush" thing with the press.

You should stop caring about how the German team is looked at by other people.

[squidward123]

Oh, what a joke. 1990 was a dour WC all around, for practically every country.


Watch about 4-5 of germany's games and get back to me.


No it hasn't. No it didn't. You're paranoid to a ludicrous degree.

Yes it did. Have you even watched the games from the eras I'm talking about anyway?

[squidward123]

You should stop caring about how the German team is looked at by other people.

I'm just politely asking a question and people who have not watched the eras I'm talking about are being exposed as having followed stereotypes blindly.

No problem with asking the question is there...

[nicephoras]

Watch about 4-5 of germany's games and get back to me.

Yes it did. Have you even watched the games from the eras I'm talking about anyway?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: When all else fails, accuse other people of not watching matches. Of course I've watched the 1990 WC (ugh). Of course I've seen the 1974 games (your contention that Germany should have won 4-1 is absurdly comical). Of course I saw Euro 96 and of course I've seen the games in 82 (given that I'm an Italy fan, I've always rather liked that tournament). It isn't my fault that Germany ultimately just tends to win without playing the best football at the tournament. Sorry. You'll have to live with being great sides.
The horror.

[nicephoras]

I'm just politely asking a question and people who have not watched the eras I'm talking about are being exposed as having followed stereotypes blindly.

No problem with asking the question is there...

Grow up. The world isn't divided into people who agree with you and people who haven't seen the matches.

[johan neeskens]

Good lord is this an odd thread. Germans win, do it methodically on a semi-regular basis (in fact, many would argue that in their 3 world cup wins they were either not the best side or won a terrible WC) and have won 3 WCs and 3 ECs and then........complain about a lack of respect? Good grief. What's next, Italians complaining about no one giving them any offensive respect despite scoring 3 goals in the 82 final?
You're lucky enough to support a country that wins a lot.

For once, Nicephoras, I agree with you wholeheartedly.