Footbrawl

[DerbyRam54]

I suppose it happens eventually, even if you work at relatively low levels. "It" being a match you have to terminate because things have gone sadly awry.
The match in question was an O-40 mens game in a cup competition between teams from two different leagues. The first half has been very docile, White is leading 2-0 after two defensive lapses by Blue. There have been no serious fouls, indeed, there will be no serious fouls in the whole match, no injuries of any kind, no players needing to leave the field because of any contact events.
Blue pulls a goal back early in the second half and the match is now quite finely balanced. Just after the hour a White attacker breaks through and is tripped by a misjudged slide tackle by Blue's keeper, outside the penalty area. White is not headed directly to goal, so I caution Blue rather than send him off, because I don't believe all the conditions for DOGSO have been satisfied. While I am managing the wall, and despite two shouts of "on my whistle" White takes the kick and misses. I order the kick retaken and White score. Blue is annoyed but settle down. Blue then pulls a goal back, White feels it was offside. I note that my AR's position was perfect on the play and am sure his decision was correct. White player booked for continued dissent after being advised to calm down.
That was the sum total of events as we head to the final three minutes of the match. On 87 minutes a Blue player is cautioned for PI, his third foul in about five minutes as play is getting a bit chippy, but definitely under control. Inexplicably the White keeper comes over and pushes Blue, earning White a caution (open handed push, didn't amount to more than a caution).
A minute later the Blue player who has been cautioned is brought down by the White player who has a yellow to his credit. Foul is well worth a second yellow and a red.
And then.....as I am showing the red card, the White keeper comes out and punches the Blue player who was fouled. Blue gets up and punches White. Blue's keeper has run the length of the field and kicks the White keeper who has been knocked down by Blue. All hell breaks lose with every player on the field throwing punches or kicking opponents. There's fights going on in four or five locations. Blue's keeper is the special focus of this and we are trying to stop that fight as he's now outnumbered three to one and getting the snot kicked out of him. Eventually saner heads help us break up the fights, the field is cleared, Blue get in their cars and leave.
I find the behaviour of the two keepers very hard to explain. Neither keeper had been fouled during the match or even received any contact beyond a minor knock on the knee for Blue. White's aggressive behaviour appears to have been the trigger, and in retrospect perhaps I should have sent him off for his first intervention. And yet, his actions did not seem to me to be worthy of a red card, tough to characterise as Violent Conduct. A yellow and a chewing out, with a supportive intervention by a teammate telling him to calm down, appeared to me to be the appropriate remedy. He was certainly aware that his behaviour was going to be watched very closely for the few minutes that remained, and his team was in the lead, so why risk getting sent off?
I have spent a lot of time trying to see what else I could have done differently. Perhaps a different approach to the 2nd yellow/red, different field position might have allowed me to see the White keeper running out, but my concern at the time was to get him away from the player he'd fouled and show the yellow/red fairly quickly so that Blue could see it was being dealt with.
I realise a lot of this is YHTBT, and I'm posting it more as therapy so I get to sleep a bit easier. I am trying to avoid a feeling of "I let this game get out of control and it's my fault it was terminated" Has anybody else had this kind of experience?
The icing on the cake was the White coach telling me at half time that I was the best ref they'd see for a long time. Yeah, right, that lasted well didn't it? To be fair, he still felt that way when I gave him his passes back, though I suspect he knew that his keeper had really sewn the seeds for the brawl and he was perhaps buttering me up so my report might be influenced.
I read my match report to my daughter (29, a criminal defence attorney who works with juvenile offenders) and we both roared with laughter at the absurdity of it all.

[Tarheel Ref]

I'd so much rather explain an early red card than 5 or 6 late ones...

I wasn't there and I know every situation is different so I'll generally defer to the man in charge at the time but...

The tempo (aggression) of the match could possibly have been seen to be escalating as these various events occurred and could possibly have been dealt with at that time before all the the various punches were thrown. Or not...I wasn't there.

I've been there when during a seemingly "friendly" match a player on one side or the other loses his head and just starts swinging...don't know why and I was never like that as a player myself so I just don't understand (and I got lots of yellows in my day).

At the first such violent event I tend to be heavy-handed on the cards...I'd rather write more than watch the problems escalate...'cause then you might really have to write a lot.

Sometimes this helps, others, the players just seem to be out to commit some serious violence regardless of the numerous reasons not to do so.

That being said, I have some serious issues with violence that occurs on the athletic fields not being dealt with when the same behavior could be a felony assault charge in the real world.

Remember when Dino Ciccerelli (washington capitols nhl hockey) hit that guy over the head with his stick in Canada eh? They did charge him with aussault in I believe Toronto (or another of them maple leaf cities). That seemed to be the first time such behavior was punished like any guy would be...in my recollection anyway.

In this case, the assaults weren't directed at the ref, but that does happen (never to me but I've heard lots of stories) more often than society should allow. In my state, assault on a sports official is a felony. That's an F-bomb I can drop on somebody that gets their attention! I've only had to use it a couple of times but it has worked every time I've played that card.

[Footballer]

Wow, I had a Over 30 State Cup match in my part of the State and it was the tamest match ever. I mean both teams showed up with only one sub - probably because everyone is on vacation still. It was on turf on a big field and it was getting hot on the field and they barely moved.

But your story reminded me why I decided to cover "mass confrontation" in my pre-game with my ARs, because we all know - in the weird world of amateur / over-the-hill soccer, s*ht does happen!

[Ref Flunkie]

From the sound of it (again, YHTBT), you didn't do much wrong. The feeling I get from your story telling is that the game was not out of hand UNTIL the last minute. IMO, if a game is out of hand, it is having issues throughout the match, with MAJOR flash points occurring at every turn. In this case, it sounds like the one "moment of truth" was the first push by the keeper. It did sound like things were starting to escalate, but without knowing more about the push (2 handed vs. 1 handed; in the back or shoulder; pushed to the ground), I can't say what I would have done, but obviously you could have done anything from no caution to a straight red. I wouldn't worry too much about it and maybe try something different next time. However, every situation is different and sometimes things just don't work out as a rational person would think they would :).

[dadman]

I'm sorry your game blew up like that and ruined both the game and your whole weekend. I'm glad that you and your daughter could laugh at the head-scratching nature of the imbroglio. I think you did the best you could. Write it up and let the league figure it out.

I can't offer much more than commiseration, but I can share a story from my experience as a player. I was playing O40 rec during a typical muggy July Sunday morning match. We had a solo CR (as often happens down at this end of competition) who was doing a fine job. I was playing left defense opposite a guy maybe two years younger, definitely fitter; we'd been conversing during the run-of-play about the game and were (I thought) on pretty good terms for being on opposite sides. He kept me from overlapping up my side, I was marking pretty well and denying him service to the middle, we both commented on good plays on both sides of the ball.

Late in the second half, I think the game was tied at ones, there've been a couple tired-leg fouls (the occassional late/clumsy challenge in midfield, inaccurate passing leading to 50-50 balls or turnovers, nothing rash or intentional). There's a quick sequence of "mis-called" offside and directions for throw-ins due to the ref tiring as well, but I didn't see as there was any bias in the calls, or even anything egregious for a solo center on a hot Sunday morning without the benefit of ARs...

Anyway, lining up for an opposition throw-in on my side of the penalty area, the guy I've been marking throws an elbow into my sternum. Suprised, I said, "What the hell? What's with the elbow?" He growls over his shoulder, "The refs not calling fouls anyway" and throws another one that I deflect with my upper arm.

Throw is taken, I strip him of the ball and send it to my center mid, he runs up the sideline and I rub my arm, wondering WTF? We keep the ball down at their end or on the right side, he stays in midfield, and our paths don't cross again. Two minutes later it's full time. He leaves the field without saying a word, and I'm left trying to figure out who crapped in his breakfast cereal.

All of which is to say that there may be no logical explaination you'll be able to discover. Maybe someone stepped in a divot and their ankle hurts and they have a headache and they can't catch their breath and they hate that they're not 20 anymore. Maybe the team they follow just got humiliated in a WC Qualifier. Maybe some guy is having marital troubles, or his daughter has cancer, or he hates his job.

I've just had recognize that as much as I play to forget my cares and worries for a few minutes, some people carry a lot of baggage out onto the field. There's no telling when they may decide to unpack it.

[campton]

MAYBE it seems you could have changed the match a small bit. Maybe being swifter on handing out cautions, and a sendoff for the pushing to stop the violence. In your situation, i would've let them play. Sometimes matches are born to get ou t of hand IMO. If they want violence, no matter waht you do, theres going to be violence.

[Footballer]

Here's another thought. Recently, I was being assessed for an upgrade. And as it always seems to be the case, I had it under cruise control - largely because the players cooperated and the outcome wasn't in question.

Then it seems like this always happens to me, towards the end of the game, something will happen where two players would go jawing at each other and then the teammates will get involved and all of a sudden, tension will increase. Then these annoying little fouls will occur and everyone would call for a card when throughout a match, one wasn't really needed.

My assessor told me that you know, this game's outcome isn't in question. With a few minutes left and with players close to getting out of control, why didn't I just end the game right there?

In my mind, I was thinking, "Yes, I'm the official time keeper and sure that would follow Law 18, but at the same time, we should play the full 45 at least no?"

I haven't applied this lesson yet. Instead I want to try to manage the game better in the last 10 minutes. But curious as to what people think about this as a possible solution.

[GKbenji]

With a few minutes left and with players close to getting out of control, why didn't I just end the game right there?

I have done this once or twice, in Sunday beer-league games with the outcome not in doubt and players getting tired and chippy for no apparent reason. My rationalization? Nobody ever said the amount of stoppage time had to be a positive number! :)

[bluedevils]

I have done this once or twice, in Sunday beer-league games with the outcome not in doubt and players getting tired and chippy for no apparent reason. My rationalization? Nobody ever said the amount of stoppage time had to be a positive number! :)

It took me a while to become comfortable with this 'tactic' but I have used it several times, including matches well above the Sunday beer league level. Sometimes, it is for the good of the game to end a match before the full 90 have been played. You save people from getting hurt, you save people from piling up cautions, you save people from being sent off. The only tricky part is, you need to be very confident that nobody is going to make a protest because the game was cut short.

[bluedevils]

I have spent a lot of time trying to see what else I could have done differently.
Sorry this happened to you. I've never had a game blow up on me quite that badly -- knock on wood.

Don't spend too much time second-guessing yourself and playing specific what-if scenarios to death. This can be helpful at times, but sometimes we overdo it.

The only thing I would suggest is, do you think maybe you didn't have your pulse on the match quite as closely or accurately as you thought you did at the time? Try to recount the match in your head from start to finish. Think about certain events as clues or cues. How did you respond to these events? How did the players respond to your actions? Maybe the game really was going the way you said it was going, i.e. smoothly. But perhaps there were undercurrents or a tension level that you didn't pick up on during the match. Perhaps some of the problem players in this match have a history of bad behavior, or perhaps there was a history between these 2 teams or certain players on the teams, or...

Hopefully that makes some sense.

I wouldn't automatically look back and conclude, yep I should have given a red instead of a yellow when the GK pushed the other guy at the stoppage because look how badly the game turned out after I went with a caution instead. If you didn't think it was worthy of a red, then it probably wasn't.

[LoewenBoy]

IMHO the game unraveled when you did not eject the White keeper. Easy for me to say having not been there, but even before reading any further in your post as soon as you noted that you only cautioned him I said to myself "ah ha...bet this comes back to roost". Of course, it could have easily gone right as easily as it went wrong. :o

For my money it has been my experience that when players of that ilk start doing stuff "inexplicably" they get what I call "Oliver Kahn Symdrome" -- Oli Kahn being the Bayern Munich goalkeeper who thinks the rules just don't apply to him. Guys like that just feel they can push the envelope and get away with it. I usually toss a red on infractions like that and, most of the time, that drops the heat of the situation more often than not.

[bluedevils]

I usually toss a red on infractions like that and, most of the time, that drops the heat of the situation more often than not.

That might avoid problems 95% of the time, but the dilemma I see is that in maybe 90% of the situations it isn't necessary. So we are taking action as a preventive measure 'just in case' and that isn't always the best route to take, IMO.

If I honestly don't think it is VC and at that moment it does not seem that a red card is needed for game control, I'm almost always NOT going to give the red card.

Not that I like players who exhibit the Kahn/Lehmann syndrome; on the contrary, I find it very annoying.

[LoewenBoy]

That might avoid problems 95% of the time, but the dilemma I see is that in maybe 90% of the situations it isn't necessary. So we are taking action as a preventive measure 'just in case' and that isn't always the best route to take, IMO.
I would agree IF the players who were involved in the shoving were part of the original foul...THAT I can see: heat of the situation, tempers boil, chesting beating, that sort of thing. BUT, a keeper who walks up, not involved in the infraction and shoves a player? That's more than USB in my book.

How's this as a compromise: Caution him for interfering during booking of a player AND for the USB, thus an ejection?:D

[Ref Flunkie]

I would agree IF the players who were involved in the shoving were part of the original foul...THAT I can see: heat of the situation, tempers boil, chesting beating, that sort of thing. BUT, a keeper who walks up, not involved in the infraction and shoves a player? That's more than USB in my book.

This actually seems reasonable to me (still VERY dependent on the type/force of the shove).

[LoewenBoy]

This actually seems reasonable to me (still VERY dependent on the type/force of the shove).
Agreed. Yet, how many times have we seen shoves and pushes punished in the EPL with a red card? It is always a mine field whenever we go out there, but I would think few would argue a red card given to a keeper that out of line.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but how violent does the "V" in VC need to be to warrant a red card? Is not unprovoked aggression considered violence?

[bluedevils]

sometimes a shove/push during a dead ball may be red, yellow, or nothing. For me, it depends on the situation.

[DerbyRam54]

There's been a lot of useful comments here, all good food for thought.

I don't think ending the match early was really an option. It was a State Cup group round match, Blue is only trailing by one and White is pretty tired. I agree that it's an option if the outcome has really been determined, but that wasn't unfortunately the case.

LoewenBoy has a good point re the YC/RC decision for the GK. The snag is that up to that point, the GK hadn't done anything remotely bothersome. All I can think, looking back, is that perhaps he and Blue #12 (the player he went after) might have either had some prior run-ins or might have exchanged words somewhere along the way, perhaps after Blue's second goal. OTOH, I didn't see anything, and I watched very closely as the players moved away from the penalty area following the goal before I wrote anything down.

At this level, it's a lot harder to do any research into possible problem players, so by the time our Ollie Kahn wannabes show their true colours, it's a bit late. If you knew what they were capable of, you could try to be proactive in dealing with them.

Anyway, feedback from the competition secretary has been positive, which is a relief. The competition committee is supposed to meet today to decide what they are going to do.

In the meantime, I'm left with Blue's passes, their manager hasn't responded to my email and I don't have a mailing address for them....

""Little boys blue
You lost your passes
You left rather quickly
To save your a$$es
You left them behind
With the Man In Black
You'd better be nice
If you want them back"

;)

[Claymore]

Good points so far, but I'd like to drop in my $.02 on O-30(+) matches. I learned a lot of this from doing men's amateur in Baltimore and a few trips to the Veteran's Cup.

At the older age groups, it's a tremendous help to not only keep an eye on play, but also keep an ear out for trash talk. A lot of it is subtle and kept in low tones, but it can build up and before you know it, you've got a hockey game on your hands. It's borne of frustration.

These guys (and I include myself here) are on the downside of their physical abilities, and it can be frustrating to find yourself struggling to do even the simplest things, like having a good first touch. First touch gets away from you, you stab at the resulting loose ball, and then you get called for the inevitable foul - happens all the time. I'd keep an eye out for this and try to stay close to a player who's obviously struggling. They're easy to spot, as they're usually stomping their feet or yelling at team mates after they've lost the ball. Sometimes just being in close proximity to these players will calm things down, sometimes a word or two after the play helps. Let them know you're in the game on multiple levels.

[Luto's Friend]

Usually if someone tells me I'm having a good game at halftime, I respond that I still have the entire second half to screw it up.....

I figure that saves me in either case.

[nsa]

Usually if someone tells me I'm having a good game at halftime, I respond that I still have the entire second half to screw it up...

I tell them that I will believe it in 45 minutes. :)



Regarding the temporary insanity of the 'keepers, remember that they have to be missing a few marbles to be in that position in the first place. ;)

That said, the trailing AR might have intercepted the blue 'keeper.

Agreed, you can't cut the match short at the cup level. 8-1 in a summer league game, nobody will blink at 10 or 15 minutes being trimmed. A 1-goal game in competition and folks will bitch at you no matter how much time you add (while the other guys yell that the game should have ended 20 minutes ago).

I was reading the "State Referee" thread and thinking about the ability of some referees to read the player's body language and voice to anticipate and intervene. Sometimes the signs are missed. Sometimes the players forget that it's a game.