Argentina after two games...

[leoriver]

have played expentional well,atleast to me they have. Despite playing 2 poor teams,Argentina beat them the way they should have beaten them,goleada y con baile.

Vs the U.S. started a bit slow but what I liked the most despite finding ourselves losing pretty quick,Argentina never got desperate and played their game vs a team that had all their 11 players on their half of the field making very difficult to penetrate their defense. Even tying still had their 11 players defending.:rolleyes: No wonder the US will never grow at an international level.The U.S. was still happy with a tie but couldn't hold for long.

Loved the way Argentina moved the ball around once we were up the U.S. had no choice but to come out of their defensive mode and thats where Argentina became lethal,like I read VIP mentioned that Argentina makes it their game,regulate and attacks when it needs to and thats what just happened.

Kind of got a flash back of when Basile was the coach in the world cup 94 vs Nigeria, anyone that remembers that game knows what im talking about.

Against Colombia, once again find ourselves losing but with the good personalidad the team has shown was able to get back into the game right away.Almost a repeat of the first game but as time and games go by I see them getting better and Riquelme getting more involved,which is something I had always wanted him to do.

Gotta love "los cambios de frente" from both Riquelme and Veron.

Argentina went stacked to it's teeth whoever comes out the player going in is even more hungrier just to prove they belong as a starter just aswell as the one coming out.Only problem I see we have is at keeper,but with our play hopefully none of the games will have to come down to depend on el Pato.

They say in life one isn't to expect things because if it doesn't happen then you will be let down,well I DO expect ARGENTINA to become champions anything less then first place will be a fracaso.

[DiVo0oNeH]

We won and deserved to win, but were not saying that the team is playing bad or something no were just pointing out the errors and trying to find ways of fixing them u hear ppl saying take out veron and others saying put in aimar is just opinions and everyone has his own way of fixing things thats about it :/

[bsas]

As I said earlier, I'm happy with most of the players selected, and obviously with the 2 victories. I have only some worries about our defense, because they have shown they are not rock solid, even against teams with a floppy attack.

I'd like these guys to find their best level, which for me was in the recent friendly against France. Fortunately we have Masche in the midfield who stops most attacks, because Milito and Ayala have not shown much confidence.

[leoriver]

We won and deserved to win, but were not saying that the team is playing bad or something no were just pointing out the errors and trying to find ways of fixing them u hear ppl saying take out veron and others saying put in aimar is just opinions and everyone has his own way of fixing things thats about it :/


If it ain't broken,don't fix it.

Eventhough I would still take out Pato. :/

[big daddy]

Hi guys. First time poster. Been visiting this site for years, and especially the Argentine boards, to get my regular fix of news and views. However I've never felt the need to post before.

I'm posting because I've been so impressed with Argentina so far in the Copa. I think Basile's doing a marvellous job and has got everything spot on for this tournament, and it makes a refreshing change to say that, after what happened against Germany. At long last, I feel Argentina has a manager who can do justice to this extraordinary group of players.

I remember prior to the WC, debate raged regarding Peker. I chose not to post my views, as it was clear that all the dissenting voices were being jumped on by the misguided loyalists. To me the warning signs were clear, Peker's judgement was deeply flawed.

Sorin as captain. Terrible decision. I wasn't sure how Sorin could be assured of a place. When the players look at the captain, they must immediately understand why he has that status, in terms of his ability as a player and the respect he commands. Ayala was always the spiritual leader of the team, his performances and stature ensured that. Basile has corrected this mad decision.

Heinze at CB. To me, Milito is infinitely superior in the left CB role, and Heinze is infinitely superior at LB than Sorin. Again, Basile has corrected these wrongs.

Zanetti. It's a no-brainer. Peker made a major error of judgement. His defence comprised a LB who couldn't defend (Sorin) with a RB (either Burdisso, Scaloni or Coloccini) who couldn't attack, and in the case of Scaloni, one who couldn't even play football. Such a shame. Basile corrects the decision.

Veron. I must admit I agreed with his omission from the WC, but Basile has shown me otherwise. Basile is playing a perfectly balanced midfield diamond, with the awesome Mascherano at the base, Veron on the right, Cambiasso on the left, and Riquelme at the tip. It works beautifully. No-one is treading on Mascheranbo's toes. They all have a clearly defined role. Footballers respond to such logic.

I had doubts about Veron's ability to defer to Riquelme in the playmaking role, but he's performed his rigid role as a right-sided box-to-box player with commendable selflessness and commitment, and because he's another ball player, he takes some of the onus off Riquelme, allowing Riquelme more freedom.

It was clear under Peker that there was too much emphasis on Riquelme, and Riquelme was stifled as a consequence, and sometimes easily marked out of games. He was more deliberate in his play, slower, as if he had too much responsibility. Basile understands this and has given him an entirely free role, whereby he can concentrate solely on attacking, but this is only possible because of the rigid midfield structure that's in place, and the fact the side is perfectly balanced, filled with ball players, with both full backs able to provide outlets on both flanks.

Riquelme is really flourishing in this team and it's great to see.

Once Peker's squad became known, it was clear to all astute observers he had made glaring errors. Players like Coloccini, Scaloni, Cruz and Cufre should have been nowhere near the squad, indeed he hadn't even worked with some of these players. I read some posters views that Scaloni was taken because he was the class joker, which is madness. By contrast, Basile has picked the perfect squad, based on ability. Seven defenders for four positions. Seven midfielders for four positions. Five forwards for two positions.

Basile appears to be a very clear thinker in terms of how he wants his team to play, and it serves the players perfectly. Peker by contrast was a muddled thinker who got his wires crossed when it really counted. Against Germany, he made some of the worst substitutions of all time, borne of fear. Cambiasso for Riquelme, Cruz for Crespo. Not only did Crespo and Riquelme have to watch from the sidelines as their teammates squandered their lead and eventually went out, players of the ilk of Messi, Aimar and Saviola played no part at all in the game. Criminal.

By contrast, Basile swaps like for like. Because of numbers, he has to play Zanetti and Cambiasso tonight. But every other starter is replaced with an identikit replacement. Because of Crespo's injury, Diego Milito has to be rested, so Palacio comes in. Tevez assumes Messi's role as the withdrawn striker with a free role who drifts out to the flank. Aimar replaces Riquelme as playmaker. Lucho replaces Veron on the right of the diamond. Gago replaces Mascherano at the base. It makes perfect sense. There can be no disputing the logic.

Argentina have played wonderful football so far and this is due to the manager getting it right and creating a system that allows his special talents (Riquelme and Messi or Aimar and Tevez) to flourish. Wherever they look there's a player in the correct position ready to accept the ball, and even more crucially, able to use the ball once they have it.

This is a truly great side.

Of course some will quibble about not seeing their favouritie players in the team or even in the squad, but when you have the talent that Argentina possess, that's inevitable. Basile understands that it's all about balance. You can't play all your special talents at the same time, you have to be decisive as a coach regarding your preferences, and Basile has got every decision right. Sadly this means Tevez, Aimar and Lucho can't start, and it means Saviola, Aguero and Higuain can't even make the trip, but so be it, the manager is paid to make tough decisions. Each position demands a player with different attributes, not players who are all the same, and I don't think Argentina's attacking play could have possibly been enhanced, so good has it been.

I assume Maxi hasn't made it because Basile feels he needs rest after an injury-ravaged season. Another good decision. May I ask what's happened to Gonzalo and Ustari, of whom I expected great things...?

[smd9]

Hi guys. First time poster. Been visiting this site for years, and especially the Argentine boards, to get my regular fix of news and views. However I've never felt the need to post before.

I'm posting because I've been so impressed with Argentina so far in the Copa. I think Basile's doing a marvellous job and has got everything spot on for this tournament, and it makes a refreshing change to say that, after what happened against Germany. At long last, I feel Argentina has a manager who can do justice to this extraordinary group of players.

I remember prior to the WC, debate raged regarding Peker. I chose not to post my views, as it was clear that all the dissenting voices were being jumped on by the misguided loyalists. To me the warning signs were clear, Peker's judgement was deeply flawed.

Sorin as captain. Terrible decision. I wasn't sure how Sorin could be assured of a place. When the players look at the captain, they must immediately understand why he has that status, in terms of his ability as a player and the respect he commands. Ayala was always the spiritual leader of the team, his performances and stature ensured that. Basile has corrected this mad decision.

Heinze at CB. To me, Milito is infinitely superior in the left CB role, and Heinze is infinitely superior at LB than Sorin. Again, Basile has corrected these wrongs.

Zanetti. It's a no-brainer. Peker made a major error of judgement. His defence comprised a LB who couldn't defend (Sorin) with a RB (either Burdisso, Scaloni or Coloccini) who couldn't attack, and in the case of Scaloni, one who couldn't even play football. Such a shame. Basile corrects the decision.

Veron. I must admit I agreed with his omission from the WC, but Basile has shown me otherwise. Basile is playing a perfectly balanced midfield diamond, with the awesome Mascherano at the base, Veron on the right, Cambiasso on the left, and Riquelme at the tip. It works beautifully. No-one is treading on Mascheranbo's toes. They all have a clearly defined role. Footballers respond to such logic.

I had doubts about Veron's ability to defer to Riquelme in the playmaking role, but he's performed his rigid role as a right-sided box-to-box player with commendable selflessness and commitment, and because he's another ball player, he takes some of the onus off Riquelme, allowing Riquelme more freedom.

It was clear under Peker that there was too much emphasis on Riquelme, and Riquelme was stifled as a consequence, and sometimes easily marked out of games. He was more deliberate in his play, slower, as if he had too much responsibility. Basile understands this and has given him an entirely free role, whereby he can concentrate solely on attacking, but this is only possible because of the rigid midfield structure that's in place, and the fact the side is perfectly balanced, filled with ball players, with both full backs able to provide outlets on both flanks.

Riquelme is really flourishing in this team and it's great to see.

Once Peker's squad became known, it was clear to all astute observers he had made glaring errors. Players like Coloccini, Scaloni, Cruz and Cufre should have been nowhere near the squad, indeed he hadn't even worked with some of these players. I read some posters views that Scaloni was taken because he was the class joker, which is madness. By contrast, Basile has picked the perfect squad, based on ability. Seven defenders for four positions. Seven midfielders for four positions. Five forwards for two positions.

Basile appears to be a very clear thinker in terms of how he wants his team to play, and it serves the players perfectly. Peker by contrast was a muddled thinker who got his wires crossed when it really counted. Against Germany, he made some of the worst substitutions of all time, borne of fear. Cambiasso for Riquelme, Cruz for Crespo. Not only did Crespo and Riquelme have to watch from the sidelines as their teammates squandered their lead and eventually went out, players of the ilk of Messi, Aimar and Saviola played no part at all in the game. Criminal.

By contrast, Basile swaps like for like. Because of numbers, he has to play Zanetti and Cambiasso tonight. But every other starter is replaced with an identikit replacement. Because of Crespo's injury, Diego Milito has to be rested, so Palacio comes in. Tevez assumes Messi's role as the withdrawn striker with a free role who drifts out to the flank. Aimar replaces Riquelme as playmaker. Lucho replaces Veron on the right of the diamond. Gago replaces Mascherano at the base. It makes perfect sense. There can be no disputing the logic.

Argentina have played wonderful football so far and this is due to the manager getting it right and creating a system that allows his special talents (Riquelme and Messi or Aimar and Tevez) to flourish. Wherever they look there's a player in the correct position ready to accept the ball, and even more crucially, able to use the ball once they have it.

This is a truly great side.

Of course some will quibble about not seeing their favouritie players in the team or even in the squad, but when you have the talent that Argentina possess, that's inevitable. Basile understands that it's all about balance. You can't play all your special talents at the same time, you have to be decisive as a coach regarding your preferences, and Basile has got every decision right. Sadly this means Tevez, Aimar and Lucho can't start, and it means Saviola, Aguero and Higuain can't even make the trip, but so be it, the manager is paid to make tough decisions. Each position demands a player with different attributes, not players who are all the same, and I don't think Argentina's attacking play could have possibly been enhanced, so good has it been.

I assume Maxi hasn't made it because Basile feels he needs rest after an injury-ravaged season. Another good decision. May I ask what's happened to Gonzalo and Ustari, of whom I expected great things...?

You hit everything spot on about Peker and Basile, and yes Basile made the right subs which enabled Argentina to obtain the victory (against Paraguay) Something Peker failed to do.

Gonzalo and Usatari are both out with injuries.:(

[bsas]

Very accurate analysis. Pekerman undoubtedly messed up his subs. I feel so much more relaxed with Coco in command, as his team choice/subs make sense.

This said, I'll always be grateful to Pekerman for the style of played he has nurtured with the squad, and specially the second goal against S&M, which will always stay in my memory.

[big daddy]

Gonzalo and Usatari are both out with injuries.:(

Okay. Thanks for telling me. I think with players of that calibre Argentina has a very bright future.


Pekerman undoubtedly messed up his subs. I feel so much more relaxed with Coco in command, as his team choice/subs make sense.

I didn't see the game against Paraguay, but it appears Basile got his subs right once again, with Messi and Mascherano changing the game. Also, it appears the performance only served to confirm that Basile has his first choice eleven correct, as the second string didn't perform great. From what I gather, apart from Tevez, the only players who stood out were Pato, Zanetti and Cambiasso, who of course are all in Basile's first eleven.

In the first game, against America, Basile's introduction of Aimar changed the game too. America weren't posing an attacking threat, and Argentina weren't breaking them down, so he replaced Cambiasso with Aimar. This gave the team an extra ball player and creative force and it worked.

Contrast this with Pekerman's substitutions, not only against Germany, but against Ivory Coast I recall, where he replaced Crespo with Palacio, and Argentina were left hanging on.

I haven't seen any of the friendlies under Basile, but by all accounts they haven't been great, however I think that's excusable because he's experimenting, nothing rests on the result, and he has to look at as many players as possible. Here in the Copa we can see the fruits of his labour, he has really got it right. It's so good to see an Argentina manager finally picking the right side. It makes a refreshing change.

In Germany, it often seemed Ayala was holding the defence together on his own. Inexplicably, there was no recognised RB, Sorin was at LB, and Heinze was having a shaky time at CB, not only because it's not his best position, but also because he had just returned from lengthy injury.

Of course players like Ayala, Zanetti, Veron and Crespo will soon need to be replaced, but I think Argentina has the neccessary strength to cope. In regards the long-term, it might be good that Crespo has got injured, because it gives Milito a chance to establish himself. Sooner or later Crespo will be gone and the team will need another centre-forward, so this is a good chance for Milito to incorporate himself in the side and get the neccessary experience.

[DiVo0oNeH]

Okay. Thanks for telling me. I think with players of that calibre Argentina has a very bright future.




I didn't see the game against Paraguay, but it appears Basile got his subs right once again, with Messi and Mascherano changing the game. Also, it appears the performance only served to confirm that Basile has his first choice eleven correct, as the second string didn't perform great. From what I gather, apart from Tevez, the only players who stood out were Pato, Zanetti and Cambiasso, who of course are all in Basile's first eleven.

In the first game, against America, Basile's introduction of Aimar changed the game too. America weren't posing an attacking threat, and Argentina weren't breaking them down, so he replaced Cambiasso with Aimar. This gave the team an extra ball player and creative force and it worked.

Contrast this with Pekerman's substitutions, not only against Germany, but against Ivory Coast I recall, where he replaced Crespo with Palacio, and Argentina were left hanging on.

I haven't seen any of the friendlies under Basile, but by all accounts they haven't been great, however I think that's excusable because he's experimenting, nothing rests on the result, and he has to look at as many players as possible. Here in the Copa we can see the fruits of his labour, he has really got it right. It's so good to see an Argentina manager finally picking the right side. It makes a refreshing change.

In Germany, it often seemed Ayala was holding the defence together on his own. Inexplicably, there was no recognised RB, Sorin was at LB, and Heinze was having a shaky time at CB, not only because it's not his best position, but also because he had just returned from lengthy injury.

Of course players like Ayala, Zanetti, Veron and Crespo will soon need to be replaced, but I think Argentina has the neccessary strength to cope. In regards the long-term, it might be good that Crespo has got injured, because it gives Milito a chance to establish himself. Sooner or later Crespo will be gone and the team will need another centre-forward, so this is a good chance for Milito to incorporate himself in the side and get the neccessary experience.


I agree and about the players who will replace these guys i think we have way too many!! Garay, Fazio, Palleta, Zabaleta, Ferrari, Alvarez, Almiron, Belluschi, Banega, Pavone, Millito, Higuain

imagine if u were the coach how difficult is it? i think its worst than teams like France or Holland where u need to pick 23 out of 30 in Argentina u need 23 out of 50 ;)

[big daddy]

I agree and about the players who will replace these guys i think we have way too many!! Garay, Fazio, Palleta, Zabaleta, Ferrari, Alvarez, Almiron, Belluschi, Banega, Pavone, Millito, Higuain

imagine if u were the coach how difficult is it? i think its worst than teams like France or Holland where u need to pick 23 out of 30 in Argentina u need 23 out of 50 ;)

Would you say the international futures of Franco, Cufre and Sorin are over...?

Sorin is an interesting case. I don't think he's a left-back, as he can't defend, and I don't think he's a winger either, but in the current system, I think he would do well on the left of the diamond, playing box-to-box, in Cambiasso's position. I'm not saying he would be better, but I think it's the position that most suits him.

[vipnerd]

Hi guys. First time poster. Been visiting this site for years, and especially the Argentine boards, to get my regular fix of news and views. However I've never felt the need to post before.

I'm posting because I've been so impressed with Argentina so far in the Copa. I think Basile's doing a marvellous job and has got everything spot on for this tournament, and it makes a refreshing change to say that, after what happened against Germany. At long last, I feel Argentina has a manager who can do justice to this extraordinary group of players.

I remember prior to the WC, debate raged regarding Peker. I chose not to post my views, as it was clear that all the dissenting voices were being jumped on by the misguided loyalists. To me the warning signs were clear, Peker's judgement was deeply flawed.

Sorin as captain. Terrible decision. I wasn't sure how Sorin could be assured of a place. When the players look at the captain, they must immediately understand why he has that status, in terms of his ability as a player and the respect he commands. Ayala was always the spiritual leader of the team, his performances and stature ensured that. Basile has corrected this mad decision.

Heinze at CB. To me, Milito is infinitely superior in the left CB role, and Heinze is infinitely superior at LB than Sorin. Again, Basile has corrected these wrongs.

Zanetti. It's a no-brainer. Peker made a major error of judgement. His defence comprised a LB who couldn't defend (Sorin) with a RB (either Burdisso, Scaloni or Coloccini) who couldn't attack, and in the case of Scaloni, one who couldn't even play football. Such a shame. Basile corrects the decision.

Veron. I must admit I agreed with his omission from the WC, but Basile has shown me otherwise. Basile is playing a perfectly balanced midfield diamond, with the awesome Mascherano at the base, Veron on the right, Cambiasso on the left, and Riquelme at the tip. It works beautifully. No-one is treading on Mascheranbo's toes. They all have a clearly defined role. Footballers respond to such logic.

I had doubts about Veron's ability to defer to Riquelme in the playmaking role, but he's performed his rigid role as a right-sided box-to-box player with commendable selflessness and commitment, and because he's another ball player, he takes some of the onus off Riquelme, allowing Riquelme more freedom.

It was clear under Peker that there was too much emphasis on Riquelme, and Riquelme was stifled as a consequence, and sometimes easily marked out of games. He was more deliberate in his play, slower, as if he had too much responsibility. Basile understands this and has given him an entirely free role, whereby he can concentrate solely on attacking, but this is only possible because of the rigid midfield structure that's in place, and the fact the side is perfectly balanced, filled with ball players, with both full backs able to provide outlets on both flanks.

Riquelme is really flourishing in this team and it's great to see.

Once Peker's squad became known, it was clear to all astute observers he had made glaring errors. Players like Coloccini, Scaloni, Cruz and Cufre should have been nowhere near the squad, indeed he hadn't even worked with some of these players. I read some posters views that Scaloni was taken because he was the class joker, which is madness. By contrast, Basile has picked the perfect squad, based on ability. Seven defenders for four positions. Seven midfielders for four positions. Five forwards for two positions.

Basile appears to be a very clear thinker in terms of how he wants his team to play, and it serves the players perfectly. Peker by contrast was a muddled thinker who got his wires crossed when it really counted. Against Germany, he made some of the worst substitutions of all time, borne of fear. Cambiasso for Riquelme, Cruz for Crespo. Not only did Crespo and Riquelme have to watch from the sidelines as their teammates squandered their lead and eventually went out, players of the ilk of Messi, Aimar and Saviola played no part at all in the game. Criminal.

By contrast, Basile swaps like for like. Because of numbers, he has to play Zanetti and Cambiasso tonight. But every other starter is replaced with an identikit replacement. Because of Crespo's injury, Diego Milito has to be rested, so Palacio comes in. Tevez assumes Messi's role as the withdrawn striker with a free role who drifts out to the flank. Aimar replaces Riquelme as playmaker. Lucho replaces Veron on the right of the diamond. Gago replaces Mascherano at the base. It makes perfect sense. There can be no disputing the logic.

Argentina have played wonderful football so far and this is due to the manager getting it right and creating a system that allows his special talents (Riquelme and Messi or Aimar and Tevez) to flourish. Wherever they look there's a player in the correct position ready to accept the ball, and even more crucially, able to use the ball once they have it.

This is a truly great side.

Of course some will quibble about not seeing their favouritie players in the team or even in the squad, but when you have the talent that Argentina possess, that's inevitable. Basile understands that it's all about balance. You can't play all your special talents at the same time, you have to be decisive as a coach regarding your preferences, and Basile has got every decision right. Sadly this means Tevez, Aimar and Lucho can't start, and it means Saviola, Aguero and Higuain can't even make the trip, but so be it, the manager is paid to make tough decisions. Each position demands a player with different attributes, not players who are all the same, and I don't think Argentina's attacking play could have possibly been enhanced, so good has it been.

I assume Maxi hasn't made it because Basile feels he needs rest after an injury-ravaged season. Another good decision. May I ask what's happened to Gonzalo and Ustari, of whom I expected great things...?


Basile is an old fox that knows how to play his teams. There is no science to it. The toilet in the bathroom, the bed in the bedroom ...

But there are 3 things that you are forgetting. And they come tied to a principle in life, that is that there are moments that belong only in their own context.

First, Roman wasn't in the best shape after a lengthy season, which also hit him hard psychologically after the pk missed against Arsenal. Despite this, he lead the team to semis until he was subbed.

And the 2nd is, no matter how much the imagination wants to wonder, this year's Messi is not last years. Now he has had a full year (minus injury time) to mature, strengthen and get accosutummed to the top flight of int'l football. We are not talking about the same player ... no way on earth could it be. How much less would this team be without Roman and Messi? Because the WC'06 team didn't have them at this maturity/peak of performance.

Lastly ... the USA's B team, the worst Colombia in the last 2 decades and Paraguay's B team are not precisely Ivory Coast, Holland, Mexico or Germany at home.

In summary, we can all agree there were players missing in WC06. For one, I argued against a thick brick wall in these boards about the importance of Veron. His character and leadership above all. Even as a sub.

Others thought of Zanetti. This Argentina 1st team has Heinze MOSTLY stationed in the back and Zanetti pushing forward. Giving balance to the defense with 3 defenders at all times and a DM. In Germany it was the other side that had the offensive duties. And Burdisso stayed along Ayala and Heinze to join Mascherano in holding the castle.

Even thou I agree with your props of this Copa America's team, knowing you seem to not have watched all games, I think is without logic to compare the squads in Germany and in Venezuela, and thru it the jobs of their coaches. Because of the moments of each player. Because of the rivals and the difficulty of the opposition.


.

[rios]

Others thought of Zanetti. This Argentina 1st team has Heinze MOSTLY stationed in the back and Zanetti pushing forward. Giving balance to the defense with 3 defenders at all times and a DM. In Germany it was the other side that had the offensive duties. And Burdisso stayed along Ayala and Heinze to join Mascherano in holding the castle.


having 2 wing backs doesn't mean they both have to push. only one would be necessary to gain some width on the opposite wing to where our midfielders are concentrated. against paraguay for example, we had 2 wing backs and for the most part neither pushed. If the wing back is reliable enough to act as a full back, by having him instead of a natural fullback you're always adding options to your offense.


In summary, we can all agree there were players missing in WC06. For one, I argued against a thick brick wall in these boards about the importance of Veron. His character and leadership above all. Even as a sub.

sensitive stuff here. even if ignoring all the personal issues between players.
there's a 23 (22 for copa) roster limit to consider. having veron would eliminate one of the spot for midfielders, and at the current moment, we have Maxi... In this copa veron entered at the expanse of one defender ( last worldcup for example, scaloni was on the team to play defender not midfield ).
then there's the issue of the 6th forward. for WC the tourney is one more game, it would be safer to have an additional striker. 3 goalie 6 forwards 8 defenders then there's only 6 spots for midfield starters and subs.

[vipnerd]

having 2 wing backs doesn't mean they both have to push. only one would be necessary to gain some width on the opposite wing to where our midfielders are concentrated. against paraguay for example, we had 2 wing backs and for the most part neither pushed. If the wing back is reliable enough to act as a full back, by having him instead of a natural fullback you're always adding options to your offense.

:confused: I saw both laterales pushing, one at a time, against Paraguay. Much more Zanetti than Ibarra in the first half. Both in the second, one at a time.

Of course it is better to have 2 that can push. The perfect example is Ibarra and Clemente at Boca. What I'm saying is that the "A" team back 4 that Coco has used in this CA is very similar to the one used by Peker in '06, with only one side having a strong forward presence from its lateral. Back then it was Sorin ... now it is Zanetti.




sensitive stuff here. even if ignoring all the personal issues between players.
there's a 23 (22 for copa) roster limit to consider. having veron would eliminate one of the spot for midfielders, and at the current moment, we have Maxi... In this copa veron entered at the expanse of one defender ( last worldcup for example, scaloni was on the team to play defender not midfield ).
then there's the issue of the 6th forward. for WC the tourney is one more game, it would be safer to have an additional striker. 3 goalie 6 forwards 8 defenders then there's only 6 spots for midfield starters and subs.

The beef between Sorin and Veron turned out to be the detonating point for Veron to be excluded. Afterall, Sorin was Peker's captain. But any NT should be above personal issues. As far as I can think of, this are all grown-ups. And differences have to be set aside in benefit of the squad.

Even if to have Veron as a sub, in my books, he would had been much more useful than Aimar could had been/was. Because Veron would had been the perfect sub for Roman when looking to close a game. When the "knife in between the teeth" attitude was needed at the end of games.

But this is just past stuff. I argued about it at its time, prior to the WC, and think that my views weren't that off based on Monday's paper.



.

[rios]

:confused: I saw both laterales pushing, one at a time, against Paraguay. Much more Zanetti than Ibarra in the first half. Both in the second, one at a time.

Of course it is better to have 2 that can push. The perfect example is Ibarra and Clemente at Boca. What I'm saying is that the "A" team back 4 that Coco has used in this CA is very similar to the one used by Peker in '06, with only one side having a strong forward presence from its lateral. Back then it was Sorin ... now it is Zanetti.

IMO having Zanetti is better. because riquelme leans left, so getting width on the right would balance it out a little better.
but having both able to push obviously adds elements of surprise.

The beef between Sorin and Veron turned out to be the detonating point for Veron to be excluded. Afterall, Sorin was Peker's captain. But any NT should be above personal issues. As far as I can think of, this are all grown-ups. And differences have to be set aside in benefit of the squad.

Even if to have Veron as a sub, in my books, he would had been much more useful than Aimar could had been/was. Because Veron would had been the perfect sub for Roman when looking to close a game. When the "knife in between the teeth" attitude was needed at the end of games.

But this is just past stuff. I argued about it at its time, prior to the WC, and think that my views weren't that off based on Monday's paper.

Aimar also serve as Roman's backup for CAM. Having Veron for that position is arguably doable, but the formation has to look at the option of falling back into flat back (dropping from CAM to CM) or something of the sort. You're right though, using him as a closer is probably better than using Aimar.
Supposingly Veron is a better choice than Aimar for outside midfielder too. Since he can cross and pull long shots, give us some option that's not available without him. but so far he's failed in that aspect. at least not doing as much as expected.

[big daddy]

In my view, whether Basile's defence resembles Peker's in shape or not, the omission of Zanetti was inexplicable. Even if they stay back, neither Burdisso, Coloccini or Scaloni are natural right-backs. To be frank, whatever their best position, Coloccini and particularly Scaloni should never have made the squad.

Heinze may not be as proficient as Zanetti going forward, that's true, but he links up with the attacks pretty well, as we saw against America. He mostly provides an outlet on the flank, and in so doing helps the team as a whole have better shape and thus be more fluent.

For me, whether they stay back or not, the full-back positions should be filled by specialists, as Basile is showing. It provides more defensive security and better balance going forward.

Pekerman only seemed to take one specialist full-back to the World Cup, Cufre, who doesn't appear to be that good although I may be wrong.

In regards Riquelme and Messi, yes they are in better shape now, that's true, which only demonstrates even further that there was too much onus on Riquelme in the World Cup. Another ball-player would have helped him no end. I still insist Messi should have come on against Germany. Their big lumbering centre-backs would have been petrified of him. I think Pekerman got way too cautious.

With Veron, as I said before, I thought he was finished in international terms, but he's playing well and serving the needs of the team marvellously. However, I think it's fair to say he's in better shape now than he was last summer, so maybe there was logic to Pekerman's decision, certainly I thought so at the time.

I think Basile deserves a huge amount of credit for getting Riquelme and Veron back in and getting them functioning so well.

Although the opposition in Germany provided a far sterner test, thus far Basile seems to be making the right decisons, whereas Pekerman never engendered the same confidence, not with me anyway.

Judging from this Copa, I get the feeling Basile can be trusted. Let's hope it stays like that.

[ilovefotball]

The main differnce between Basile and Pekerman has been their subs. Pekerman always had weird subs whereas basile is making sensible changes. Pekerman's subs cost us the WC but Basile's subs(so far) has helped us to have 100% winning record in Copa America. Having said that i still think we played more beautiful football under Pekerman. If only he had his subs right, we could have won the WC playing some fantastic football on the way.

[rios]

The main differnce between Basile and Pekerman has been their subs. Pekerman always had weird subs whereas basile is making sensible changes. Pekerman's subs cost us the WC but Basile's subs(so far) has helped us to have 100% winning record in Copa America. Having said that i still think we played more beautiful football under Pekerman. If only he had his subs right, we could have won the WC playing some fantastic football on the way.


peckerman's subs when he was doing youth were very intelligent. in the WC he also made the correct subs in group stages and against mexico. Against mexico he quickly took advantage of the mexican substitution error (if it can be counted as an error (http://albicelestesforever.blogspot.com/2007/06/tomorrow-we-play-in-conclusion-to.html)) which was definitely a wise move. but like you said, his negative choice against germany cost us the campaign.

[Dr. Know]

in the WC he also made the correct subs in group stages and against mexico.

His subs against Ivory Coast were horrible. Almost cost Argentina the win.

[rios]

His subs against Ivory Coast were horrible. Almost cost Argentina the win.

he started that game 3-4-1-2, and lucky to get 2 goals. so when second half ivory coast started to put pressure on with offensive substitutions, I dont see what peckerman did wrong to drop us into 4-4-1-1. given it's sort of negative, it was probably necessary to perserve the lead. Ivory coast was killing our defense with their sprints man.
drogba scored when they had 4 forwards. we should of gotten a goal from counter attack, but argentina is too much a possession offensive team so that didn't work too well.

[Dr. Know]

he started that game 3-4-1-2, and lucky to get 2 goals. so when second half ivory coast started to put pressure on with offensive substitutions, I dont see what peckerman did wrong to drop us into 4-4-1-1. given it's sort of negative, it was probably necessary to perserve the lead. Ivory coast was killing our defense with their sprints man.
drogba scored when they had 4 forwards. we should of gotten a goal from counter attack, but argentina is too much a possession offensive team so that didn't work too well.

The team lost all creativity and bunkered while they let Ivory Coast attack non stop. The midfield basically broke down. Argentina doesn't work well playing bunkering especially players like Riquelme. Then Pekerman put Palacio of all people as a lone striker and the team was reduced to punting long balls to him.