Michael Moore's "Sicko" give big props to the French

[lefutur]

Its a movie about the failing American health system (crooked and profit driven insurance companies, less-than-caring hospital systems, unchecked drug companies, and corrupt politicians) but Michael Moore visits several countries to give alternative viewpoints and in the process shows France in a very glowing light.

The movie not only interviews French healthcare professionals and describes some of the reasons why France was given the #1 rating by the World Health Organization but also discusses French culture with a group of American ex-pats living in Paris. They describe the advantages French workers experience such as generous maternity-leave periods and the 35 hour work week as well as the free universities and free hospitals.

Moore goes on to suggest that the French are more involved and less apathetic than their American counterparts because they have a tradition of the government being afraid of the people, whereas in the US the people are afraid of the government.

He then asks the question: maybe the US media and politicans don't want Americans to like France for a reason, maybe Americans would want to be more like the French!

[Breakwood]

Not to say that Michael Moore is giving false infromation, but he intentionaly looks at the best parts of the French and Canadian health systems, while exposing the worst parts of the American system. This doesn't mean the French system sucks, but a conclusion cannot be made either way using just Michael Moore's film.

[guignol]

yes, MM is a master at never saying anything untrue but still using the most slanted possible image to get his opinion across. in his defense, it isn't so much a deformation, or even an exaggeration, as a magnification. and it is always for the good cause, imo anyway.

that said, my wife and i didn't need sicko, or bowling for columbine, to make our decision to come and live in france. we both adored living in SF as a couple, but when it comes to bringing up kids, the choice between the US and france is almost no choice at all, and the health care situation is a big part of that.

[cmblfc]

that said, my wife and i didn't need sicko, or bowling for columbine, to make our decision to come and live in france. we both adored living in SF as a couple, but when it comes to bringing up kids, the choice between the US and france is almost no choice at all, and the health care situation is a big part of that.

Wow Guignol, that is definitely interesting. I am in college right now and minoring in French. I am a Journalism major and really would love to be an overseas reporter for either the AP or something print-related; and France really interests me as a possible destination. Were you born in the USA? I am almost 20 and I have lived here my whole life.

Regarding Sicko, it is supposed to be spectacular. I am pretty excited about it.


And if you havent seen it already, GO SEE LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD. It is so over the top but it is hilarious and brilliant at the same time.

[Catfish]

yes, MM is a master at never saying anything untrue but still using the most slanted possible image to get his opinion across. in his defense, it isn't so much a deformation, or even an exaggeration, as a magnification. and it is always for the good cause, imo anyway.

that said, my wife and i didn't need sicko, or bowling for columbine, to make our decision to come and live in france. we both adored living in SF as a couple, but when it comes to bringing up kids, the choice between the US and france is almost no choice at all, and the health care situation is a big part of that.
Spot on! I am neither LEFT nor RIGHT politically, I believe in doing
what is best. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I had no idea that
you were an ex-patriot. I don't agree with everything MM says or does,
but I love that he exists to force me to think about things in different way.

I have seen all of MM films. I know my wife and I will see this one too.

[ilv2]

Wow Guignol, that is definitely interesting. I am in college right now and minoring in French. I am a Journalism major and really would love to be an overseas reporter for either the AP or something print-related; and France really interests me as a possible destination. Were you born in the USA? I am almost 20 and I have lived here my whole life.


And if you havent seen it already, GO SEE LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD. It is so over the top but it is hilarious and brilliant at the same time.

france 24 my friend, that is the answer to your prayers.

very random movie plug btw :D

[cmblfc]

france 24 my friend, that is the answer to your prayers.

very random movie plug btw :D

I am going to have to check out France 24.

I do that sometimes:cool:

[Solid444]

Now, I havent seen the movie and I am not the biggest Michael Moore fan and I can only speak from general experience.

I am a 21 year old college student majoring in chemical engineering. I just came back from studying 7 months in Europe, 2 of which were in Paris (the other 5 in Madrid). One night, my dumb ass decided to get completely wasted with some friends. I slipped on the wet sidewalk at 3 in the morning and cut my head open with a gash that required stiches. I was taken by ambulance to the nearest hospital and released the next morning. I payed a total of 5 Euros (about $6.50) on painkillers and that was it. I will admit that having lived in Mexico for most of my life and the US for a while now, this seemed like the weirdest thing. It was amazing.

You add this to the fact that my 2 months there were the greatest experience i have ever had, I have seriously considered living there, or at least in Europe, in the future (medical care in Spain was also dirt cheap)

[Ballon d'or Identity]

yes, MM is a master at never saying anything untrue but still using the most slanted possible image to get his opinion across. in his defense, it isn't so much a deformation, or even an exaggeration, as a magnification. and it is always for the good cause, imo anyway.

that said, my wife and i didn't need sicko, or bowling for columbine, to make our decision to come and live in france. we both adored living in SF as a couple, but when it comes to bringing up kids, the choice between the US and france is almost no choice at all, and the health care situation is a big part of that.

Do you really mean that ? What's so bad about raising a kid in the US that would make not to think even for a moment about coming here ?

Also i'm always a bit surprised about one thing. How is it that when people from outside europe who want to come and live in europe often think about either the UK, Italy, France or Germany. How come not a lot of people say Norway or danmark, Sweden or Portugal.
Just saw a report in the news about Norway and boy do they seem to have a great country. Ok with all the oil they have it makes it easier but still, their pensions are in safe hands for their old days, no unemployements, well paid jobs, no poverty (at least not as much as here).

They said they needed 15000 new persons each months. Wonder for what kind of jobs.

[Ballon d'or Identity]

Now, I havent seen the movie and I am not the biggest Michael Moore fan and I can only speak from general experience.

I am a 21 year old college student majoring in chemical engineering. I just came back from studying 7 months in Europe, 2 of which were in Paris (the other 5 in Madrid). One night, my dumb ass decided to get completely wasted with some friends. I slipped on the wet sidewalk at 3 in the morning and cut my head open with a gash that required stiches. I was taken by ambulance to the nearest hospital and released the next morning. I payed a total of 5 Euros (about $6.50) on painkillers and that was it. I will admit that having lived in Mexico for most of my life and the US for a while now, this seemed like the weirdest thing. It was amazing.

You add this to the fact that my 2 months there were the greatest experience i have ever had, I have seriously considered living there, or at least in Europe, in the future (medical care in Spain was also dirt cheap)

Yeah it's great, but it's very expensive and more and more a burden on our budget. I'm sure Moore forgot to mention that.
My theory on to why he's so nice to us in this film is he knows putting America down and make everybody see in his film France as number one will upset some people, putting some pressure on those in charge as if to say : "The french are doing a better job". And after the Irak issue, i think it's a good move. He wants to tease american pride in my opinion.
Apparently it works.

[Catfish]

Just saw a report in the news about Norway and boy do they seem to have a great country. Ok with all the oil they have it makes it easier but still, their pensions are in safe hands for their old days, no unemployements, well paid jobs, no poverty (at least not as much as here). They said they needed 15000 new persons each months. Wonder for what kind of jobs.
I have heard that Norway's highest tax bracket is nearly 70%!
Kind of kills initiative, huh?

[Ballon d'or Identity]

I have heard that Norway's highest tax bracket is nearly 70%!
Kind of kills initiative, huh?
Yeah, but if the pay enough for you to make ends meet...

[cmblfc]

Yeah, but if the pay enough for you to make ends meet...

Then its more than fine.

It is amusing to speak to fellow americans about this issue because they are so adamant to hold on to their money. The deal is, when the government covers things like Education, Healthcare and other necessities and human rights, you still have plenty of money to cover other costs of living.

America is very individualistic and its really our downfall. We could have great programs to improve living for the collective population, but some people are too stubborn to give it thought. The "I dont want to be like Europe because there is something wrong with them that i really dont know how to explain" mentality is sad.

[Pierre-Henri]

http://sitecon.free.fr/Data/france/securite_sociale.jpg

Just to put things into perspective. Many people (including Moore, as it seems) still believe that health care in France is "free". It isn't "free". It isn't paid by Santa Claus or cute little fairies. We pay for it. We simply pay for it through other means than in the USA.

Practically, we pay for it through the public debt. IE, we say to our children : "here is the bill". We shift the blame and the responsabilities on them.

I don't say that system X is better than system Y. I'm no specialist, I don't know. However, to think that things are "free" in France is a really naive point of view. France is not Neverland.

[Catfish]

Just to put things into perspective. Many people (including Moore, as it seems) still believe that health care in France is "free". It isn't "free". It isn't paid by Santa Claus or cute little fairies. We pay for it. We simply pay for it through other means than in the USA.
Practically, we pay for it through the public debt. IE, we say to our children : "here is the bill". We shift the blame and the responsabilities on them. I don't say that system X is better than system Y. I'm no specialist, I don't know. However, to think that things are "free" in France is a really naive point of view. France is not Neverland.
Thank goodness someone finally admitted that...I constantly told my students that money doesn't grow on trees (neither does the govt just keep printing it) and nothing, I MEAN NOTHING IS FREE!!! Someone pays for it someone down the road.

[cmblfc]

http://sitecon.free.fr/Data/france/securite_sociale.jpg

Just to put things into perspective. Many people (including Moore, as it seems) still believe that health care in France is "free". It isn't "free". It isn't paid by Santa Claus or cute little fairies. We pay for it. We simply pay for it through other means than in the USA.

Practically, we pay for it through the public debt. IE, we say to our children : "here is the bill". We shift the blame and the responsabilities on them.

I don't say that system X is better than system Y. I'm no specialist, I don't know. However, to think that things are "free" in France is a really naive point of view. France is not Neverland.

That isnt the point and no one ever said it was. The way the taxtation system is set up, it favors people that have lesser amounts of money. In the US and many other countries, this is not the case. Universal healthcare obviously isnt free, but it is much more accessible and useful to the common person than privatized healthcare is.

[ilv2]

agreed, despite the costs, basing one's accessibility to healthcare upon the requirement that the patient is a living human being just like any other is infinitely more reasonable one based on what type of salary one makes. a poor patient who has cancer is the same as a rich patient who has cancer - health should not be considered a luxury such as a television or a computer; the person deserves to be treated.

[Pierre-Henri]

I agree with you. My post was a reaction to Solid444 contribution. He said he paid 5 euros. Alright. Alright, but massive bu.....t. My children will pay for this (1). Their children will pay for this and, very probably, their children's children will also pay for this.

They will pay for our healthcare, and for their healthcare as well -- if they can afford them both, which is very doubfull, leading to a probable collapse of all the system.

I agree to say that universal healthcare is one of the major realisations of France. This is something we can be all proud about. However, the system as it is today is far too lenient concerning various abuses. It is very easy, for example, to get full buckets of "free" medicine from any accomodating doctor. For the doctor and the patient, it's a win-win relationship : the patient is happy to get a lot of medicine (old people often are) and the doctor is happy to keep his customers. But the community pays the bill.

And don't say we have to give a sense of responsability to the people. As long as the different actors will have a financial interest in the plundering of the system, as long as the French at large will consider the Sécu as their "free" Santa Claus (and they do, believe me) failure is unavoidable.

-----------
(1) If I had children, of course. You see the point.

[Catfish]

agreed, despite the costs, basing one's accessibility to healthcare upon the requirement that the patient is a living human being just like any other is infinitely more reasonable one based on what type of salary one makes. a poor patient who has cancer is the same as a rich patient who has cancer - health should not be considered a luxury such as a television or a computer; the person deserves to be treated.
More than 10 years ago, I would rolled my eyes at this post, but
since then have attained some wisdom and life experience (I have been married for nearly 8yrs and have 2 daughters). I tend
to agree that healthcare for all is right thing to do.
How can religious person, no matter their faith, deny someone life
because they can't afford it? I'm stunned that the religious right hasn't
championed this cause.

[cmblfc]

More than 10 years ago, I would rolled my eyes at this post, but
since then have attained some wisdom and life experience (I have been married for nearly 8yrs and have 2 daughters). I tend
to agree that healthcare for all is right thing to do.
How can religious person, no matter their faith, deny someone life
because they can't afford it? I'm stunned that the religious right hasn't
championed this cause.

Well, I am a catholic and all I see from the religious right is that they care about money and followers, not a religious message.

Im gonna get flamed for that comment.....