I needed that vacation... [Copa/Cold Cup/MLS Results]

[Mr. Warmth]

You've just got to have a break after a Gold Cup campaign that the US thoroughly dominated with a mix of younger players and a dwindling set of "veteran" contributors. 3 days of fishing, constant rain, and a crappy cabin that drove my neurotic sister-in-law to the verge of a meltdown. Of course, I helped with that too. But hey, I missed you clowns. Especially my fans, but even more, the ones who hate my writing. Life just isn't complete if I'm not pissing someone off.

Now, what I didn't miss was the threads that show up after every US/Mexico game decrying how pissed off people were that Mexico had 50K fans at Soldier Field and the US had only 15K or so. You know what, if you lived less than a 12 hour drive away from the game, you have no excuse so shut your holes. The Mexicans seemed to make it there just fine. And invariably those threads always turn into a bunch of closeted bigots whining about immigration and who should be happy that they're in the US and who they should root for. It's pretty obvious that nothing has changed since these people's parents were complaining about "colored folk" stealing their jobs and how they should just be happy having their own water fountains and toilets.

Now, if there is anything that has made me as happy as the 2-0 pasting of Mexico in Korea, it's the fact that we are unlikely to see players (aside from blind spot cronyism) garner 100+ caps for the US because each successive wave of players developed by the US is technically better than the last will be pushing the older ones aside. We won't have to rely on pure physicality anymore. Even our "non-skill" positions will have technical abilities equal to what we consider "skilled" right now. If anything has retarded our development of better National team players, it's been a combination of reliance on veterans who are well past their sell by date, and placing younger players in positions that they have never played because the Youth National coaches "convert" players to fill out their line ups and MLS coaches use them to fill in holes in their line ups without regard to what that does to them developing the position that they are best at.

Hopefully this tournament will serve as a last hurrah for the aging vets and complete the changing of the guard for the US Men's National team, though I'm pretty sure we're going to have to change the locks to keep Keller from showing up at training camp. That guy is like Elliot Gould, he never leaves.

But enough about the Gold Cup and on to Copa America AKA - Making our players better.

Argentina 4 - 1 United States

Anyone upset about this loss is the type of person that only started to like the US Men's team in the last 5 years. We played arguably one of the 3 best national teams in the world with a line up that was without two of our established attacking players, a veteran goalkeeper that should have retired earlier in the week and a forward that just provided the hammer and nails for his international coffin, and a fair number of the players that got drilled tonight have spent the last month participating in a tournament that placed us in a FIFA sanctioned tourney against the champions of the other confederation to test our readiness for the WC with a year to make changes.

What we learned:

Goalkeeping:Dear Kasey Keller.

Thank you for your long service to the national team. Sadly, you no longer can contribute to this team. Please find yourself a club to play out your remaining useful years or look for a coaching gig. The whole "living in a castle" shtick and aging metalhead has become tiresome.

Regards, Bob.

Now, to be fair, I don't think that replacing Keller with Guzan would have necessarily resulted in a better score. It might have, but unlikely. What it would have done was make El Guzano a better goalkeeper, which was the point of attending this tournament, but I would have rather seen him out there learning what not to do instead of Keller making a mockery of the art of goalkeeping. Now, put Howard in the goal, it's probably 2-1 or 1-1, but again, we don't prepare Guzan for anything.Defense:We learned that we're approaching 3 and 4 deep at some positions and the players are light years more skilled than anything else the US has produced at the position, save perhaps a healthy and in-form Eddie Pope, but even at his best Pope could never dominate a game because he was usually partnered with a stiff. In fact, any national team that has hopes for winning a World Cup is going to have to have 4 or more players competing for every position and the days of the "autostart" player on defense are over. Finally, we're going to be able to be able to slot players in at tactical positions that maximize their abilities and can use those abilities to neutralize the opponents players instead of hoping for the opponent to have a bad day and one of either Keller or Friedel to stand on their head.

Conrad and DeMerit, while probably outclassed by some of the best players in the world, did little to embarrass themselves and should continue to push Onweyu and Bocanegra for the central defenders for the next few years. They may never push their way on as starters in a World Cup, but they'll make excellent tactical subs to contain a certain player or protect a lead.

Borenstein improves with every game, but still needs work and nothing will do that faster than playing more games against teams of the caliber of Mexico or better. Wynne still needs club seasoning, plus as many national team camps/games as possible to get familiar with the style of players he will be playing with.
Midfield:Oh Ben Olsen. How I hate you, and at the same time, would still welcome you on my Fire. Oh what could have been if you hadn't gone to Forest and ruined your ankle. Olsen delivered what Bob asked of him, far more than Keller could at this point. He pushed, hustled and used what skill and brains God blessed him with to actually compete with the Argies.

People are now asking "What happened to Eddie Gaven?" Probably a combination of bad coaching, certainly when he sunk down to Columbus, being an above average player on some garbage CFKA Metro teams and "too much, too soon" where decent money combined with a ton of hype has either lead to a severe decline in his abilities, or him being exposed as not the next savior of American soccer. Maybe he should call up Kyle Martino and ask him what he's done to fix his career. Otherwise, better use that Project 40/Gen Ad money to look into colleges.

Was that really Justin Mapp playing a very good defensive game against Argentina? At least he stepped up that part of his game and got a taste of what it's going to take to wrestle a consistent spot on the Nats. Now, I know some are going to be disappointed that Mapp was not weaving through the Argentina defense like he did against the bunch of Danish stiffs, but like Gaven, I think Mapp's development has been retarded by MLS coaching, and the lack of a really effective reserve system. Mapp's first year in the league consisted of a staggering 28 minutes and being both injured and bounced around the Chicago line up to serve the endless tinkering of Dave Sarachan. MLS senior rosters have been, and continue to be far too shallow to really allow good player development. The best players on the reserve team shouldn't be used as stopgap replacements every time a starter pulls a hamstring, which has happened to often to players that have looked so promising.

Beckerman. Probably should have started. Not much time to judge him.

Feilhaber: Was visibly exhausted from the Gold Cup, but turned in an admirable showing. If his team in the Bundesliga doesn't have a use for him, I'm sure that there are plenty of teams who do. Benny faded, but given the Gold Cup performances, that had to be expected.

Ricardo Clark: I think it's pretty unfair to Clark and Feilhaber to be expected to turn in the same type of performances they had in the Gold Cup with so little time for rest and the travel down to the People's Republic of Venezuela. Clark was somewhat invisible, and the grind of the Gold Cup, especially the final, was evident.
Forwards:Either Eddie Johnson forgot that he's strong and fast or that Bradley told him and the rest of the team to move forward, supporting each other as a unit, rather than let him stretch the defense of Argentina, which was probably a decent decision as they're going to be less prone to be pulled apart and most of the midfield starters were going to be fatigued from the Gold Cup. Johnson certainly did do what he could when he ran onto a Feilhaber long ball and forced the Argentines to bring him to ground or let him shoot unmolested, but without the wheels from the midfield to attack with him, or a competent strike partner, anything we got out of Johnson was icing on the cake.

Taylor Twellman: Seriously, if it weren't for the U-20's being held at the same time, you'd be back in Boston. You epitomize what's wrong with the US in the development of forwards. Lots of movement, energy and action that creates nothing, wastes offensive opportunities, and completely incapable of finishing against even moderate quality teams.

Herculez Gomez: Too little, too late. And more of a hybrid than either a true forward or a true mid. In essence a clone of Clint Dempsey that is a bit better forward than Clint. By the time he made their field, our midfield was dead tired and Are we now a better team for this beating? Yes, in many ways. Keller is done, as is Twellman. Gaven may be also, unless he gets out of Columbus, but he has little to contribute here. Herc and Beckerman need to start and to provide something to assist Johnson and given either Clark/Feilhaber a break. Olsen will be crucial in givving this team it's bite and Mapp should find more opportunities to attack, especially against a Colombia team that looked horrific against a far less skilled, compared to Argentina, team in Paraguay. Ben Olsen for Captain at this point.

Had the US had another week to rest and get rid of two players in KK/TT, we might have been able to sneak a draw out of this game, but now we march on and get the best results possible against Paraguay/Colombia and home that Argentina deliver as complete a beat down on them as they did to us. Second place in the group is easily attainable.


MLS Week 13

Over/Under on Crew/Rapids trading coaches is July 4.

Thursday Night - cRapids 1-4 DC United

Memo to the betting set: Colorado on the road, load up on the opponent. How is it that Fernando Clavijo still gets jobs in MLS? Sure he'll get you one or two decent seasons and may get you to a conference final, but after that, his teams go into the crapper and just kind of float there. That being said, DC United's Brazilian contingent seems to be finding their legs after an abysmal start and are heading up, the loss to RSL aside.


Saturday's Games

Houston 0 - Dallas 2: Houston continues the suck at the PHP.
Redbull 2 - Crew 1: Sure HSG wants to unload Sigi, but who do you replace him with.
Revs 1 - 2 Chivas: Razov creeps closer to Kreis and Moreno

Sunday's Games

Colorado 1 - 4 Chicago: See above. Colorado on the road = money in the bank
Toronto 0 - 3 KC: If there is a team that's worse on the road than Colorado, it's TFC.

[Matrim55]

In the spirit of "Other than that, did you enjoy the show, Mrs. Lincoln?"...

Positives I took from last night's game:

Feilhaber's confidence in the middle.
Bornstein playing so well defensively that Messi switched sides.
Conrad and DeMerit. Solid.
Mapp's effort on the defensive side and learning experience on the offensive side.
Beckerman playing with composure and confidence in his 10 minutes.
Gomez playing quickly, intelligently and with skill in spite of the Argie defense
Olsen's fire


I talked enough last night in the USMNT forums about the stuff I saw that I didn't like, so I'll just let that go.

Instead I'm going to focus on the fact that games like these are best for watching the development of our neophytes, and that a bunch of them looked passable-to-good out there. If anything, at least Justin Mapp learned (as MM10S pointed out) that you have to be a bit more clever when going against Javier Zanetti than you do against Jack Jewsbury.

[joeginto]

You don’t piss me off but you’re dead wrong on some points, spot on some others.
1) “a Gold Cup campaign that the US thoroughly dominated with a mix of younger players and a dwindling set of "veteran" contributors.” I guess domination is in the eye of the beholder. From my perspective, they “dominated” the El Salvador game. The other five games…not so much.
2) The mix at Soldier Field was more like 55k Mexican fans and 10k (other including U.S.). I know I need to smacked at this point.
3) Absolutely spot on regarding the comments of U.S. players amassing 100+ caps. The development of U.S. Youth players pushing the veterans out of the national team picture is the best sign of progress. Much more so than any results the U.S. team gains in any tournament, including the World Cup and WC qualifying.
4) Conrad was a beast. I hope he’s around for the next few years but I worry about a guy who’ll be 33/34 at the next WC playing centre back. Jimmy is great but he’s not exactly Fabio Cannavaro who played at the highest level in last years WC at that age. I’m concerned about the next few years taking their toll on Jimmy. Jay needs to stay in England and I don’t think his growth will be stunted much by playing in the Championship but he’s no spring chicken either.
5) Bornstein did fairly well but I was really impressed with Wynne. I haven’t seen much of him in the MLS and for getting his first taste with the Nats against Argentina? I thought he played outstanding.
6) I remember hating Ben Olsen for awhile before apathy set in. I was pessimistic he’d add anything and was pissed when he was named to the roster. Olsen? Really? What’s the point in that? I was wrong. He had a hell of a game and should never have been subbed out, barring injury. Gaven? As Clemenza said of Paulie “You won’t see him no more.” What a travesty.
7) Mapp played very well defensively but forget about weaving through the defense. Boy couldn’t put together a through ball or pass the ball upfield to save his life yesterday. Dave Sarachan hamper a players development? Mapp should improve, the Fire should improve.
8) Personal opinion, of course, but I don’t think replacing Twellman or Keller with anyone in the U.S. national team picture would have saved that result. We played 60 minutes of brilliant, if not extremely attacking, football against the best talent in the world with our B squad. Now, if we can manage a draw against Paraguay, which is a huge task, that’ll be sweet.

[LosAngeles]

Beckerman playing with composure and confidence in his 10 minutes.



I don't think we can even really talk about Beckerman's game last night. His ten minutes completely coincided with Argentina getting behind the ball. Pretty much role-reversing giving us the challenge of figuring out how to break down a defensively organized formation. That said he had good confident touches but Argentina gave him all the space in the world. I definitely want to see Beckerman start next game, give Benny a rest, he deserves it!!

Let's hope that Gaven get's lost on the way to the field next game, how did he even get on this B team?

P.S. Bornstein = next R. Carlos? What a good kid, honestly, I love him at LB and his dreams are lofty. Keep on keep'n on Bornsy!

[Wizardscharter]

8) We played 60 minutes of brilliant, if not extremely attacking, football against the best talent in the world with our B squad. Now, if we can manage a draw against Paraguay, which is a huge task, that’ll be sweet.No, obviously you were spending too much time listening to the exceedingly colorful Ron Newman and too little time watching the game.

USA played an immature attacking game that was dminated in poker terms by a full boat of players with brains and dkill enough to wear down the opposition defense with wave after wave of possession that created truck-wide holes everywhere. I don't know how anyone blames Keller for anything. Argentina had all 192 sq. feet to hit all second half. Maybe on his day he gets down to stop Argie's second. Still, the guy could have put it anywhere 5-6 feet left of where he did and still picked the far post clean. If Keller is any farther off the near post, that's where the shot beats him.

Keller didn't allow 4, the USA's mental ineptitude did. That and ARG was simply classy.

[FC Denver]

MM10S,

Great post. I haven't been a fan of your previous posts, but this one was well thought out filled with interesting perspectives. Thanks.

[autogolazzo]

Every time I start to think that MM10Shirt has been relieved of his duties as a Bigsoccer "columnist," he crushes my spirit by returning from vacation, exams, the hospital, whatever.

This post was right on the money, however. Good job.

[Friedel'sAccent]

....snip....

Keller didn't allow 4, the USA's mental ineptitude did. That and ARG was simply classy.

Spot on. People looking to blame this insulting display of soccer on any one player (whether it be Keller or, equally fashionably, Gaven) must not have been watching the same game I did. It's not like the game was hanging on a knife edge, where we were really threatening the Argies. Sure, the score was 1-1, but aside from the fluke PK it never felt like an even match. Argentina played well within themselves and turned it up in the second half, exposing our B/C (whatever) team's lack of technical prowess and (especially, IMO) midfield creativity.
But to try to pin this performance on any one moment or any one player is, I think, to miss the forest for the trees.

[Bill Archer]

Slobber, slobber, slurp, yeah-mumbllemumble-10Shirt...slobber-slurp, your post ith freekin awethome slurpslurp.

Except for the nakedly obvious trolling wherein you make the ridiculous assertion thatl anyone who expresses disappointment at the ratio of Mexico fans to USA fans in a given stadium is a Klan-loving, Lestr-Maddox baseball bat carrying, Selma Bus Segregating race baiter.

That sort of tongue-in-cheek attempt at getting a rise out of people is a poor imitation of a guy like, say, Mike Segroves, who, unlike you, was actually good at it.

Lemme tell you, pal: I knew Mike Segroves; I worked with Mike Segroves; Mike Segroves was a friend of mine.

And you, Sir, are no Mike Segroves.

[Bellus Ludas]

[FONT=verdana]

We wait and wait for you to come back so that we can trash your column and you turn around and write the best front pager of anyone in weeks.

Good stuff...now get back to writing that crap we are used to:D

[Mr. Warmth]

Slobber, slobber, slurp, yeah-mumbllemumble-10Shirt...slobber-slurp, your post ith freekin awethome slurpslurp.

Thankfully I remember my shots before I dove into the pile of Crewzers

Except for the nakedly obvious trolling

Troll? Troll, Sir? I have not yet begin to troll!

wherein you make the ridiculous assertion thatl anyone who expresses disappointment at the ratio of Mexico fans to USA fans in a given stadium is a Klan-loving, Lestr-Maddox baseball bat carrying, Selma Bus Segregating race baiter.

Oh most of them aren't that bad. They simply express bewilderment while sitting in front of their computers watching a game broadcast in mandarin over the internet because they're too cheap to pop for the Peppervision and FSC programming tier. Not to mention that the game is taking place less than 4 hours away. No, it doesn't devolve into unfettered "Mexicans should be supporting the US or go back home" until the 3rd page. I guess with that attitude we can go right ahead and cancel every Oktoberfest, Columbus Day and St. Patrick's Day celebration from here on out and have 4 Independence Days. Fireworks and Watermelon for everyone.

I don't know how anyone blames Keller for anything. ...

Keller didn't allow 4, the USA's mental ineptitude did. That and ARG was simply classy.

Oh, I can blame Keller for plenty. Fanning at the first goal, sticking to his line on the 2nd & 3rd, but on top of all of that, I'll blame him for rountinely handing possession back to Argentina, and damned near every team he's played against the last decade. Keller's distribution has ALWAYS been suspect and with the deterioration of his timing and skills, he simply can't be trusted as a national team player any more. Maybe fat Tony has a position open at his mortgage company for you. Kasey Keller, Certified Loan Originator has a nice ring to it.

[livestock]

Oh, I can blame Keller for plenty. Fanning at the first goal, sticking to his line on the 2nd & 3rd, but on top of all of that, I'll blame him for rountinely handing possession back to Argentina, and damned near every team he's played against the last decade. Keller's distribution has ALWAYS been suspect and with the deterioration of his timing and skills, he simply can't be trusted as a national team player any more. Maybe fat Tony has a position open at his mortgage company for you. Kasey Keller, Certified Loan Originator has a nice ring to it.

Was that Timmy Howard who got a fingertip or two to Veron's 25 yard screamer diverting it onto the post to preserve the 1-1 first half scoreline? Was it Keller's fault that four Argies were in clear on the sublime chip that fooled the entire USA defense, leading to Crespo's easy put away... a friggin' minute after we showed why EJ was on the field? Yes, Keller fanned on the original ball in, but four on one...and if Wynne fails to recover to the goal line is Crespo offside on the play?
Immaterial at this point. Excellent post overall...except I have to say that I was, at first, glad to see Bradley actually changed tactics. I mean, Holy Princeton Tigers Sh#t! I knew that his Ivy League undergraduate diploma would come into play at some point.
However, without Donovan to help lead a counter, there was no counter..and I, in retrospect, wish the US gone out and played as aggressively as they had in the Gold Cup. They probably would have still lost by a similar margin, only difference, it probably would have been 3-0 at the half. At least we would have shown some cajones.

[GolazoSr]

Now, what I didn't miss was the threads that show up after every US/Mexico game decrying how pissed off people were that Mexico had 50K fans at Soldier Field and the US had only 15K or so. You know what, if you lived less than a 12 hour drive away from the game, you have no excuse so shut your holes. The Mexicans seemed to make it there just fine. And invariably those threads always turn into a bunch of closeted bigots whining about immigration and who should be happy that they're in the US and who they should root for. It's pretty obvious that nothing has changed since these people's parents were complaining about "colored folk" stealing their jobs and how they should just be happy having their own water fountains and toilets.




I was at Soldier Field, and you weren’t. It was the last lag of my month-long summer vacation, and took one of my grandchildren to the game. We sat completely surrounded by Mexican fans. Many of them showed disrespect at the American National Anthem by remaining seated, chatting, drinking, eating, or keeping their heads covered, and several of them even jeered the Star Spangled Banner. And all the obscenities they kept hurling at the MNT players during foul plays, without regard of whether they were the perpetrators or the victims! My poor 9-year old grand daughter, a little AYSO league player, kept looking at me in shock. Then there were also those ones who started chanting "Aztlan, Aztlan, Aztlan", referring to the country that irredentist Mexicans and Chicanos want to create by repopulating with legal and illegal Mexicans the American Southwest, secede it from the United States and then annex it to Mexico. It is a loony chimera that will never materialize, but the desire to do it is there. The mayor of LA, Antonio Villaraigosa, and California Lt. Governor, Cruz Bustamante, have never repudiated their membership with MeChA (http://www.panam.edu/orgs/mecha/nat.html),
the spearhead of the Aztlanista Movement. Aztlanistas are dead serious about it.

I have also been to matches between U.S. and Mexican leagues teams, and the behavior by Mexican fans has been the same. For example, at a game between the defunct San Jose Earthquakes and Puebla FC at Spartan Stadium, I was doused with piss from a Ziploc bag full of urine cast to the Earthquakes from the stands, and that opened in the air. I saw Mexican fans pelting the Earthquakes players with flashlight batteries and glass marbles. I saw those fans with my own eyes; I saw them passing around the batteries and marbles. That type of conduct by many Mexicans fans is what most of us American fans resent. And for your information, I am brown-skinned, born in South America, migrated legally to this great country hired as an engineer by a well know electronics firm, and I root passionately for the MNT, even over the national team of the country I was born.

If Mexican fans could only behave with civility, and leave their politics or ideologies at home; then nobody would complain about them, and everybody would enjoy what should be “the beautiful game”.

As for the 4-1 loss to Argentina, it only punctuates the sorry status of our soccer. The excuse that we went to Copa America to learn doesn’t add up. Tournaments are to compete, not to learn, although, of course, some learning can be reaped from them. We should have attended Copa America, the world’s oldest inter-federations tournament, to compete, not to be schooled, and worse, so humiliatingly. We should have declined otherwise. Sending the team we sent, and with the intention to “learn”, is like being invited to a white-tie party and then showing up in shorts and sandals. It is a gross violation of the most fundamental protocols, and a gross inconsideration toward CONMEBOL.

With the huge population we have, and with the almost 18 millions playing organized soccer from K-12 through college and from so many leagues like AYSO to USL’s and MLS’s, it’s time to come out with truly world-class players and with a truly world-class game.

The MNT and MLS couches must get out of their AYSO and college coaching cocoons.

And they get away with their poor coaching (as seen from the results; don’t nurture the notion that we played well in the Gold Cup; we played with a Rosary in our hands, minuscule El Salvador being the only minnow we spanked.) mainly because they are not accountable to criticism.

The sports media ignore and even hate the sport; what they mostly do is disparage the sport rather than auscultate it, dissect it and examine its status.

With rare exceptions, soccer commentators don’t master the sport, don’t know the art of commentating the sport, are former players who mostly carry the water for their buddies in the pitch, or all of the above. Oh, the ball was a little bit off target, when the fellow kicked it to the sky. Oh, he was robbed the ball, when the fellow just gave it away in the most miserable way. Oh, he gave the other guy just a little push, when virtually it looked like sumo wrestling. Oh, he just gave the other fellow a little jersey tug, when the victim was left almost shirtless. It’s terrible!

Hispanic and English commentators in the U.S. are the only ones who do a decent job. Most other commentators engage in endless raptures of gossiping with the play-by-play announcers. They talk about every imaginable silly thing about players and teams, sometimes players and teams not in the pitch. They rarely talk about what is going on in the pitch at the moment.

The main task of play-by-play announcers is narrating the game for the TV audience, who most of the time have a hard time identifying the players in the pitch, except during camera close-ups. They must highlight good plays and damn bad ones. Announcers must also convey the emotion of the game; some soccer announcers would do better as chess or poker narrators. Most of them are terribly boring.

As for commentators, their main task is commentating the quality of plays, about team tactics & strategies and moves in the pitch, about formations, about switches, triangulations and rotations or lack of them, and so forth. No, they talk about the color of the shoes of this player, what this or that player did here or there but in the pitch, what the team manager had for lunch, and so on. Most of them are terrible.

[kickenit]

...The excuse that we went to Copa America to learn doesn’t add up. Tournaments are to compete, not to learn, although, of course, some learning can be reaped from them. We should have attended Copa America, the world’s oldest inter-federations tournament, to compete, not to be schooled, and worse, so humiliatingly. We should have declined otherwise. Sending the team we sent, and with the intention to “learn”, is like being invited to a white-tie party and then showing up in shorts and sandals. It is a gross violation of the most fundamental protocols, and a gross inconsideration toward CONMEBOL.

AMEN to that, brother! Friendlies are for educating, tournaments should be respected or declined.

I predicted that Argentina would defeat the US 4-0. My predictions for the rest of the tournament: Paraguay defeats US, 2-1; Columbia ties US, 0-0. Both teams go home.

I love the USMNT, but am realistic about their prospects. To consider our chances in terms most Americans would easily understand, who would expect the Patriots, manned with mostly with their rookies, to do well against the Packers, Bears, and perhaps the Jets in a tournament to which those teams had sent their best players?

[Mr. Warmth]

I was at Soldier Field, and you weren’t. It was the last lag of my month-long summer vacation, and took one of my grandchildren to the game. We sat completely surrounded by Mexican fans. Many of them showed disrespect at the American National Anthem by remaining seated, chatting, drinking, eating, or keeping their heads covered, and several of them even jeered the Star Spangled Banner. And all the obscenities they kept hurling at the MNT players during foul plays, without regard of whether they were the perpetrators or the victims! My poor 9-year old grand daughter, a little AYSO league player, kept looking at me in shock.

If you like a relaxed atmosphere, may I suggest Wimbeldon.

Then there were also those ones who started chanting "Aztlan, Aztlan, Aztlan", referring to the country that irredentist Mexicans and Chicanos want to create by repopulating with legal and illegal Mexicans the American Southwest, secede it from the United States and then annex it to Mexico. It is a loony chimera that will never materialize, but the desire to do it is there. The mayor of LA, Antonio Villaraigosa, and California Lt. Governor, Cruz Bustamante, have never repudiated their membership with MeChA (http://www.panam.edu/orgs/mecha/nat.html) (http://www.panam.edu/orgs/mecha/nat.html%29),
the spearhead of the Aztlanista Movement. Aztlanistas are dead serious about it.

I have also been to matches between U.S. and Mexican leagues teams, and the behavior by Mexican fans has been the same.

http://www.carlmoon.com/Notstbea.jpg


Standing Bear say, considering how America got the land, America should not be surprised others want to take it the same way.

For example, at a game between the defunct San Jose Earthquakes and Puebla FC at Spartan Stadium, I was doused with piss from a Ziploc bag full of urine cast to the Earthquakes from the stands, and that opened in the air. I saw Mexican fans pelting the Earthquakes players with flashlight batteries and glass marbles. I saw those fans with my own eyes; I saw them passing around the batteries and marbles. That type of conduct by many Mexicans fans is what most of us American fans resent.

Thank God we folded San Jose.

And for your information, I am brown-skinned, born in South America, migrated legally to this great country hired as an engineer by a well know electronics firm, and I root passionately for the MNT, even over the national team of the country I was born.

You'll never know how little I care.

If Mexican fans could only behave with civility, and leave their politics or ideologies at home; then nobody would complain about them, and everybody would enjoy what should be “the beautiful game”.

If only Americans could do the same the other 6 days of the week, I doubt that the Mexicans would feel so inclined to be have uncivilly.

As for the 4-1 loss to Argentina, it only punctuates the sorry status of our soccer. The excuse that we went to Copa America to learn doesn’t add up. Tournaments are to compete, not to learn, although, of course, some learning can be reaped from them. We should have attended Copa America, the world’s oldest inter-federations tournament, to compete, not to be schooled, and worse, so humiliatingly. We should have declined otherwise. Sending the team we sent, and with the intention to “learn”, is like being invited to a white-tie party and then showing up in shorts and sandals. It is a gross violation of the most fundamental protocols, and a gross inconsideration toward CONMEBOL.


Good. Maybe they'll stop inviting us. It's a set of glorified friendlies. Winning the whole tournament would lead to nothing more than the sacking of a few SA team coaches.

With the huge population we have, and with the almost 18 millions playing organized soccer from K-12 through college and from so many leagues like AYSO to USL’s and MLS’s, it’s time to come out with truly world-class players and with a truly world-class game.

Funny, we seem to be developing them. Too bad the best of them can't cross the Atlantic without suffering from his sister's cramps.

The MNT and MLS couches must get out of their AYSO and college coaching cocoons.

The history of foreign coaches for the NT and MLS have yielded nothing but failure.


And they get away with their poor coaching (as seen from the results; don’t nurture the notion that we played well in the Gold Cup; we played with a Rosary in our hands, minuscule El Salvador being the only minnow we spanked.) mainly because they are not accountable to criticism.

Yeah, it's not like our opponents in the GC and also the HEX do their damnedest to beat us. We're their superbowl.

The sports media ignore and even hate the sport; what they mostly do is disparage the sport rather than auscultate it, dissect it and examine its status.

ESPN hates soccer so much, they're playing the U20 WC on ESPN U

With rare exceptions, soccer commentators don’t master the sport, don’t know the art of commentating the sport, are former players who mostly carry the water for their buddies in the pitch, or all of the above. Oh, the ball was a little bit off target, when the fellow kicked it to the sky. Oh, he was robbed the ball, when the fellow just gave it away in the most miserable way. Oh, he gave the other guy just a little push, when virtually it looked like sumo wrestling. Oh, he just gave the other fellow a little jersey tug, when the victim was left almost shirtless. It’s terrible!

Hispanic and English commentators in the U.S. are the only ones who do a decent job. Most other commentators engage in endless raptures of gossiping with the play-by-play announcers. They talk about every imaginable silly thing about players and teams, sometimes players and teams not in the pitch. They rarely talk about what is going on in the pitch at the moment.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Wha?

The main task of play-by-play announcers is narrating the game for the TV audience, who most of the time have a hard time identifying the players in the pitch, except during camera close-ups. They must highlight good plays and damn bad ones. Announcers must also convey the emotion of the game; some soccer announcers would do better as chess or poker narrators. Most of them are terribly boring.

As for commentators, their main task is commentating the quality of plays, about team tactics & strategies and moves in the pitch, about formations, about switches, triangulations and rotations or lack of them, and so forth. No, they talk about the color of the shoes of this player, what this or that player did here or there but in the pitch, what the team manager had for lunch, and so on. Most of them are terrible.

Somehow, I think if I googled "whiny soccer fan", I'd find you myspace page.

[Malkamus]

I was at Soldier Field, and you weren’t. It was the last lag of my month-long summer vacation, and took one of my grandchildren to the game. We sat completely surrounded by Mexican fans. Many of them showed disrespect at the American National Anthem by remaining seated, chatting, drinking, eating, or keeping their heads covered, and several of them even jeered the Star Spangled Banner. And all the obscenities they kept hurling at the MNT players during foul plays, without regard of whether they were the perpetrators or the victims! My poor 9-year old grand daughter, a little AYSO league player, kept looking at me in shock. Then there were also those ones who started chanting "Aztlan, Aztlan, Aztlan", referring to the country that irredentist Mexicans and Chicanos want to create by repopulating with legal and illegal Mexicans the American Southwest, secede it from the United States and then annex it to Mexico. It is a loony chimera that will never materialize, but the desire to do it is there. The mayor of LA, Antonio Villaraigosa, and California Lt. Governor, Cruz Bustamante, have never repudiated their membership with MeChA (http://www.panam.edu/orgs/mecha/nat.html),
the spearhead of the Aztlanista Movement. Aztlanistas are dead serious about it.



Watching a live football match isn't a family sport. You shouldn't have taken your Grand Daughter with the expectation that everytime the ref makes a bad call everyone screams 'gosh darn it'. Seriously, you live in San Jose, ever been to a Raiders game? Lots of bad language there, its not just Mexicans.

As for politics -- it has a long storied history of being intertwined with football throughout the world, long may it be so. So long as it doesn't get violent I don't have a problem with it and matches like this are a nice release valve.

As for MeCha, I'm a white boy from San Diego, we had a large MeCha club at my high school -- don't agree with everything they say, but nice folks for the most part -- anyone who thinks they are a threat, well, I'll leave it at that.

Great post MorningShirt dude -- more cold analysis mixed with your humor is most welcomed. We played a team were Tevev was a sub and only lost 4-1?! Great result, happy with our play especially if we do well the rest of the tourney...

[GolazoSr]

If you like a relaxed atmosphere, may I suggest Wimbeldon.



http://www.carlmoon.com/Notstbea.jpg


Standing Bear say, considering how America got the land, America should not be surprised others want to take it the same way.



Thank God we folded San Jose.



You'll never know how little I care.

ESPN hates soccer so much, they're playing the U20 WC on ESPN U


Somehow, I think if I googled "whiny soccer fan", I'd find you myspace page.

Wembley you mean? I have been several times to both, Wembley, for football, and Wimbledon, for tennis. Never got doused with piss there by the Brits there, though.

That Standing Bear lost his land doesn't mean we have to lose it too. An error doesn't make another right! Better take some critical reasoning and logic high school courses pal.

A's co-owner Lew Wolff is in the way of building a brand new soccer specific stadium in San Jose, the seat of Silicon Valley. Wolff owns the option to buy the Earthquakes franchise. Go Earthquakes, two-times champions, the football team that taught champagne football to the MLS.

You politically-correct care about skin colors, otherwise you wouldn't have writen: "It's pretty obvious that nothing has changed since these people's parents were complaining about "colored folk" stealing their jobs and how they should just be happy having their own water fountains and toilets." With MSEE, MSCS & BSEE degrees, several high-tech patents in my name, and being a polyglot, I am well "colored", and still complain about the uncivility of most Mexican soccer fans. Your political-correctness makes you, in vain, attempt to ignore it. Even if you don't like it, the sad and naked truth is that most Mexican fans in the U.S. act in very uncivil ways when attending any Mexican team game.

Recently one of ESPN most prominent sports talking heads referred to the Gold Cup as thinking it was a horse race. One of my nieces works as a writer for the New York Times, she confirms the detestation of soccer by the sports staff there. The Mercury News sport staffers publicly confess to their despite for the game. And on and on.

As for being a nagging fan, yes, I am; complacent fans like you are condemning our soccer to forever being of a CONCACAF shabby quality.

Enough! Goodbye, ciao, adios, adeus, au revoir, Auf Wiedersehen; I won’t any longer waste my time with you and your ilk.

[Mr. Warmth]

Wembley you mean? I have been several times to both, Wembley, for football, and Wimbledon, for tennis. Never got doused with piss there by the Brits there, though.

No, I meant Wimbeldon. If you're afraid of your poor grand-daughter hearing something off color, I suggest

That Standing Bear lost his land doesn't mean we have to lose it too. An error doesn't make another right! Better take some critical reasoning and logic high school courses pal.

Who's we? You're just another squatter to me. Funny thing about immigrants like you, they all want to get here for various reasons, but as soon as they do, they want to shut the door behind them and lock it.

A's co-owner Lew Wolff is in the way of building a brand new soccer specific stadium in San Jose, the seat of Silicon Valley. Wolff owns the option to buy the Earthquakes franchise. Go Earthquakes, two-times champions, the football team that taught champagne football to the MLS.

With any luck, the Quakes will be the team that gets folded 3 times. Too bad you couldn't ever fill that stadium unless the Galaxy were in town.

You politically-correct care about skin colors, otherwise you wouldn't have writen: "It's pretty obvious that nothing has changed since these people's parents were complaining about "colored folk" stealing their jobs and how they should just be happy having their own water fountains and toilets."

I'm hardly politically correct. I just call out hypocrites when I see it. I seem to have uncovered their king.

With MSEE, MSCS & BSEE degrees, several high-tech patents in my name, and being a polyglot, I am well "colored", and still complain about the uncivility of most Mexican soccer fans.

Is this some sort of cyber-dick measuring contest? Is that what Silicon Valley Soccerfan does all day, compare patents on the inter-web thingy. No wonder the Quakes got folded. You guys were too busy pecking away at your keyboards to make it out to a game.

Your political-correctness makes you, in vain, attempt to ignore it. Even if you don't like it, the sad and naked truth is that most Mexican fans in the U.S. act in very uncivil ways when attending any Mexican team game.

You think Mexicans are uncivil? You've never seen me at a Nats game.

Recently one of ESPN most prominent sports talking heads referred to the Gold Cup as thinking it was a horse race. One of my nieces works as a writer for the New York Times, she confirms the detestation of soccer by the sports staff there. The Mercury News sport staffers publicly confess to their despite for the game. And on and on.

Who cares? Why are you cowards so thin skinned about it? NASCARFan didin't give a crap when every talking head racked on their sport and showed nothing but crashes. They just kept building their brand. I swear to God, a shot of Bactine on a scape and the hosptial probably has to put you in a medically induced coma. I swear I could make a billion dollars selling crosses to indignant soccer fans who supposedly suffer near riots at Mexico games and run to BigSoccer with hammer and nails in tow and tack themselves up and groan and bleed all over the rest of us, begging to have us all sympathize with them.

As for being a nagging fan, yes, I am; complacent fans like you are condemning our soccer to forever being of a CONCACAF shabby quality.

You're team folded. What have you accomplished?

Enough! Goodbye, ciao, adios, adeus, au revoir, Auf Wiedersehen; I won’t any longer waste my time with you and your ilk.

Me and my ilk can certainly find better things to do than complain about "bad language" at a soccer game.

[Mr. Warmth]

As for MeCha, I'm a white boy from San Diego, we had a large MeCha club at my high school -- don't agree with everything they say, but nice folks for the most part -- anyone who thinks they are a threat, well, I'll leave it at that.



MeCha is about as much of a threat for secession as the Libertarian Party is for the presidency of the United States.

[Brushes Sand]

http://www.carlmoon.com/Notstbea.jpg


Standing Bear say, considering how America got the land, America should not be surprised others want to take it the same way.

Brushes Sand say, Praise Bob.

http://www.etext.org/Quartz/subgenius/bob.gif


Brushes Sand also say, 99.9% of the entire landmass coveted by Aztlan
was uninhabited when pilfered by first the Texians and then the Mormons.

Brushes Sand also say, this 99.9% uninhabited landmass was owned by
SPAIN, for 300 years, before Mexico made no move to do anything with
it for the 25 years they had it. Karmically, the ground between
the Rio Grande and the Nueces is the only sliver to which Mexico has
any kind of realistic claim. And that's part of Texas, where 2/3rds of the
combatants fighting Santa Anna for said sliver, plus the rest of Texas,
in 1836, happened to be Texians of Spanish/Mexican blood.

And to insure no one misconstrues my politics, I'm one of those people
that's so far left, I look "right". Science, history, and facts are my politics.

So Aztlan can stuff it. I'd like to see 'em try to take White Sands or
The Ranch in Nevada....

All your Tri, are belong to us.

-bs