PDA

View Full Version : The Fourth Great Team


Pages : [1] 2

TomClare
15 Jun 2007, 11:39 AM
It's commonly accepted that during Sir Matt's tenure at Old Trafford, three great teams graced that hallowed turf, and gave us all so much pleasure. When Sir Matt took over the mantle of manager in 1945, there was already some really good players at the club; namely Johnny Carey, Jack Rowley, Stan Pearson, Henry Cockburn, John Aston, Allenby Chilton, Jack Crompton. Over the next 7 years he moulded them into a really good team; one that won the F.A. Cup in a classic Final against Blackpool, in 1948, and then culminated with the winning of the 1st Division Championship in the 1951/52 season - their first Championship since 1910-11.

By the time that Championship had been won, Sir Matt had already put into place his youth policy. Youngsters such as Mark Jones, David Pegg, Albert Scanlon, Duncan Edwards, Jeff Whitefoot, Bill Foulkes, Eddie Lewis, Jackie Blanchflower, and Denis Viollet were already starting to make their mark. The season after that Championship, age had started to tell on a number of the first team players. It was only natural - so many of them had been deprived of six years of their careers by a small matter of the Second World War. Most of them were over 30 years of age, and some well into their late 30’s. The team didn't start so well in the 1952/53 season, and in the January of 1953, went out of the F.A. Cup by 5-3 at Turf Moor, Burnley. The Board of Directors became a little anxious, and one or two of them voiced their concerns at a Board Meeting. Sir Matt became annoyed, and told them that he had players on the books that in his opinion, were worth well over 250,000 pounds - an astronomical amount of money at that time. He did in fact threaten to resign if there was any interference with his youth policy. There was a lot of criticism of him in the press, but it was like water off a duck's back. Together with his trusted right hand man, Jimmy Murphy, his able lieutenants Bert Whalley, Tom Curry, and Billy Inglis, plus his wonderful Chief Scout, Joe Armstrong, he quietly got on with bringing the youngsters on, schooling them in the right way, and watched them as they grew stronger, and stronger. As the seeds of the vines that he had planted grew, they began to bear a rich flavoured fruit, and each team throughout the Club, from Juniors through to First Team, became a formidable unit.

The Youth team were unbeatable, and were such an attractive team to watch, that crowds of 30,000 were not uncommon at their games, which were played either on a Wednesday afternoon, or a Saturday morning. The Juniors who played in the local league used to win games by huge margins playing against opponents that were much older than themselves. The 'A' and 'B' teams won their leagues, the Reserves won the Central League, and crowds of 10,000 or more were again, not uncommon at those reserve team games. The imaginations of the public were captured by these young, gifted players, and the football which they were playing. In '52/53 the 1st team had finished 8th, in '53/54 it was 4th, and in '54/55 it was 4th again. However, in 1955/56, the vine finally bore the fruit that they had been waiting for. This bunch of young kids romped to their first Championship, and did it so convincingly by a margin of 11 points, and with an average age of just 22 years. That was unheard of back then. The following season they retained their title and scored over 100 league goals for the first time in the Club's history. They also reached the F.A. Cup Final, losing narrowly to Aston Villa by 2-1 after playing 84 minutes of the game with no goalkeeper.

It was also the season which saw them fire the country's imagination by becoming the first English team to compete in the European Cup. The whole Club was thriving, and Sir Matt's dream was being realised. The future was bright, and it seemed nothing could stop them attaining their highest dreams - they were a remarkable young team, and even more, were a remarkable bunch of young men. History tells us now, that cruelly, their dreams were never to be fulfilled.

Between the years of 1958-1963, there was a lot of movement of players both into, and out of Old Trafford. The Munich tragedy had taken its toll, and in 1962-63, the Club were almost relegated, finishing 19th in Division 1. However, for all of that lowly position, the team was nowhere near as bad as the press made them out to be. There was games where they did fire on all cylinders, and were a joy to behold. The F.A. Cup seemed to spur them into another gear, and they reached the Final beating the much fancied Leicester City 3-1 at Wembley, with vintage performances from two Scotsmen, Paddy Crerand. and Denis Law. Denis had joined the previous August after an unhappy spell in Italy, and Paddy had come south from Celtic in January of '63. In September of 1958, Sir Matt had made Albert Quixall the costliest player in Britain by signing him from Sheffield Wednesday for 45,000 pounds. In 1960 he signed the tough tackling Maurice Setters from West Bromwich Albion; In 1961 came David Herd from Arsenal, and Noel Cantwell from West Ham. Six of the 1963 Cup winning team had been bought in - Cantwell, Crerand, Setters, Quixall, Herd, and Law. Busby had used his buying powers wisely, whilst quietly sowing the seeds of his youth policy once again. In 1964 the Youth team once again brought home the F.A. Youth Cup, the first time since the days of the "Babes."

In September/December of that '63/64 season, two young Irish wingers made their debuts in the first team - Willie Anderson, and a waif of a boy named Georgie Best. Little were we to know that dark December day, just what an impact the young George was going to have on the game in the years to come. Also in that Youth Cup winning team were Jimmy Rimmer, Bobby Noble, David Sadler, John Fitzpatrick, and John Aston. In 1964/65 the Championship came home again for the first time since Munich, and again in 1966/67. The team played a bright attacking style of football and were a joy to watch, especially Best, Charlton, and Law - three players who were all named European Footballer of the Year during that period. The climax of the 1967/68 season saw United pipped for the Championship by arch enemies, but near neighbours, Manchester City. However, their achievement was eclipsed by the realisation of Sir Matt's golden dream when United lifted the European Cup for the first time by beating Benfica at Wembley by 4-1 - just 10 years after the Munich tragedy. That period between 1963 and 1968 was once described so eloquently as "the period of Busby, Best, and Bachus!"


So, as we all know, Sir Matt produced three great teams - but wait a minute, there was a fourth great team, and one that is often forgotten, and much maligned. On February 19th, 1958, a patched up team of 2 survivors from the Munich tragedy, 2 seasoned pro’s bought in hurriedly, 5 former reserve team players, and 2 former 'A' team players, took to the field at Old Trafford to face Sheffield Wednesday in a delayed fifth round F.A. Cup tie. Outside the ground, thousands of United fans who couldn't gain admission, massed in silence, waiting as the events unfolding inside were relayed to them by fans shouting to them from the top of the terracing. Inside 66,000 United fans didn't realise that they were witnessing a resurrection of such consequence that it recruited devotees far afield from the city limits of Manchester, and created probably, the world's greatest sporting institution. Jimmy Murphy had worked tirelessly for the previous 13 days trying to put together this team of odds and sods. This was Jimmy's team. In all the history of English football, there is no story more inspiring than Jimmy's achievement of getting United to the final of the F.A. Cup that year, and to be First Division runners-up the year after. It's sad, but in my opinion, Jimmy was never given the accolades he deserved for the initial rebuilding of Manchester United. Throughout his long career, and great service to Manchester United, he lived in Sir Matt's shadow, but the debt that both the Club, and Sir Matt, owed him was enormous. Unfortunately, today, the historians sadly tend to forget Jimmy's part in that rebuilding and revival.

Harry Gregg was in goal, and Bill Foulkes skippered the team from right full back. Both survivors of that ill fated day less than two weeks before. In the left back berth was Ian Greaves, a reserve who had played a handful of first team games, and in later years, had a successful career in club management. At right half, another reserve who had played a number of first team games, and was also a Lancashire County Cricketer, Freddie Goodwin. He also went on to have a fairly successful career in club management. At centre half was another reserve with limited first team experience, Ronnie Cope. Big Ronnie should have been on the plane to Belgrade, but when Roger Byrne picked up a strain in the game at Arsenal the Saturday before Munich, Sir Matt decided to take Geoff Bent as cover, and leave Ronnie at home. Ronnie was angry and disillusioned by what Matt did, and told Jimmy, who also didn't travel because of a commitment as manager of the Wales team, that he would be handing a transfer request in when the team returned. One can only wonder what must have gone through that young man's mind in the following years. At left half was a man signed an hour before the kick off from Aston Villa - Stan Crowther. Stan was a really hard, tough, uncompromising player, and I think that Jimmy brought him in to add that little bit of steel to the team, and also to do a little "minding" making sure nobody took liberties with the youngsters. There is no doubt that Stan played his part in getting the team to that Final, but very early the following season, he left to join Chelsea. At outside right was a Welsh international that United had bought from Cardiff City - Colin Webster. He was experienced and had featured a number of times in the first team in the previous seasons, but was never a regular. A fiery, tempestuous player, but one who gave his heart and soul to the club. At inside right was little Ernie Taylor. In my opinion, no praise was ever high enough to describe just what this little fellow did for Manchester United in those dark days after the tragedy. He was Jimmy Murphy's master-stroke. There wasn't too much of little Ernie, and he was also well the wrong side of 30. Nowadays, he probably wouldn't even pass the medical. But what a ball-player! He had a tremendous spirit for such a little guy, and would get stuck in with biggest of them, and oh! could he pass a ball. Ernie was one of those players who could unlock defences with that one pass that would take whole defences out of the game. His passes were laser guided with either foot, short or long, it didn't matter to him. He was termed in those days "a tanner ball player" - nowadays they are as rare as wingers who can dribble. In the short time that he was at Old Trafford, he was a joy to watch. In some ways reminiscent of Eric Cantona - he cajoled, bollocked, but inspired those young players around him. I can recall games where despite what was going on around him, the atmosphere and passion in the stands, the frenetic passages of play, Ernie would suddenly stop, put his foot on the ball and point to the areas of the pitch where he wanted his young runners to go to. He used to say to them; "When I look up, all I want see are your arses disappearing upfield. Give me something to aim at." Ernie got them to Wembley. The following season, Sir Matt bought Albert Quixall, and Ernie left for Sunderland.

At centre forward was a young boy with the physique of a bullock - Alex Dawson. He was a Scot from Aberdeen, but had played for England schoolboys because his father, a trawlerman, moved the family to Hull. Alex earned the nickname "The Black Prince" because of his jet black hair, and craggy good looks. He was a real handful though, and but for having to shoulder such a big load in the immediate aftermath of the tragedy, I think that he'd have gone on to greater things. He scored the third goal that evening against Wednesday. With the arrival of David Herd in 1961, Alex left for Preston North End, and featured in the 1964 F.A. Cup Final, scoring in a losing side against West Ham United. At inside left was a fresh faced young Yorkshire teenager, Mark Pearson. That night was his debut night and he hadn't even featured in a reserve team game. But he could play, and had wonderful ball skills. He was the original "Pancho" Pearson (No - that title never originally belonged to Stuart) being nicknamed by a journalist in 1958 because of his long sideburns. Mark was fiery, and the following season got sent off at Burnley which brought about Bob Lord, the notorious autocratic Burnley butcher, and Chairman, to call him a "Teddy Boy." Bob Lord never liked United, but there was an underlying reason for that. At outside left was the other 'A' team player, Seamus Brennan. Little were we to know that evening that 10 years later, as a full back, he would help United win the European Cup. Shay was still so fresh faced then. When he ran out at Old Trafford that night, he couldn't have dreamed that 90 minutes later he would return to the dressing room a big hero. He scored twice, one direct from a corner kick.


Yes, they were Jimmy Murphy's team, and for me, the fourth "great" team that was produced during that great era between 1945 - 1968. It's certainly time that they were included in our roll of honour. Maybe they did lack the glitter and stars of the other three teams, but I'll tell you what - it would be very, very difficult to name another team who battled so overwhelmingly against the odds. More than that, I think it would be fair to say that they are largely responsible for that special link that exists today between Manchester United and our tribal following around the world.

SirManchester
15 Jun 2007, 12:09 PM
That's another insightful write-up. Would it be too much trouble to ask you to post the line ups for all these four teams?

You know how we usually do it, a la:

--------GK
RB--CB----CB--LB
RM--CM---CM--LM
------ST---ST

I would really appreciate it.

TomClare
15 Jun 2007, 01:11 PM
That's another insightful write-up. Would it be too much trouble to ask you to post the line ups for all these four teams?

You know how we usually do it, a la:

--------GK
RB--CB----CB--LB
RM--CM---CM--LM
------ST---ST

I would really appreciate it.

1946-53

----------------Crompton--------------
---Carey-----------------------Aston
-----Anderson---Chilton--Cockburn
Delaney--Downie--Rowley--Pearson---Mitten

There was some fluctuations at right half back between 49/52 with Billy Maglen, Jack Warner, and Don Gibson filling in and also at outside right where Johnny Berry came in for Jimmy Delaney in 1951.

54- 58

-----------------Wood------------------
----Foulkes---------------------Byrne---
-----Colman------Jones---Edwards---
Berry-- Whelan---Taylor---Viollet -----Pegg

Again there was a few fluctations with the centre half position with Jackie Blanchflower vying with Mark Jones, and Albert Scanlon vying with David Pegg for the outside left position. Bobby Charlton also started to feature quite a bit between Oct 56 and Munich in both the inside forward positions.

58-59

------------------Gregg---------------------
----Foulkes------------------Greaves--------
----Goodwin------Cope-------Crowther-------
Webster-----Quixall---Dawson---Charlton---Scanlon

In the autumn of 58, Crowther left and McGuinness replaced him at left half. Pearson and Brennan went back to the reserve team although Mark did figure prominently whenever forwards were injured and Dennis Viollet also came back from injury.

59-63

--------------------Gregg------------------------
-------Dunne--------------------Cantwell--------
-----Stiles----------Foulkes--------Setters
Giles-----Quixall------Herd----Law----Charlton

There was a lot of movement in this period. In the very early 60's Jimmy Nicholson, and Nobby Lawton played a number of games at wing-half, Joe Carolan played quite a lot at full back on either flank, Alex Dawson featured a lot at outside right and centre forward, and players like McMillan and Moir also featured now and again on the wings and David Gaskell vyed with Harry Gregg for the 'keeper's position, and in early 63, Paddy Crerand joined United and took over at right-half.

64-68

---------------------Stepney---------------------------
----Brennan--------------------------Dunne-------------
-------Crerand-------Foulkes-------------Stiles-----------
Best----Kidd---------Herd--------Law------------Charlton--

Again, in this period there was a lot of movement. Early on, Gregg/Gaskell/Pat Dunne all vyed for the 'keepr's shirt until Stepney arrived in the autumn of 66 and he became permanent. John Connelly played for a couple of years at outside right, players like Jimmy Rimmer, John Fitzpatrick, David Sadler, Jimmy Ryan, John Aston, Bobby Noble all came through from the 64 youth team and played a number of first team games during those years.

sdotsom
15 Jun 2007, 01:13 PM
Ahh..the days when there was 5 up front.

TomClare
15 Jun 2007, 01:26 PM
Ahh..the days when there was 5 up front.


Yes, but in reality, the 63-68 teams could alternate between 4-3-3, and 4-2- 4 which they did a lot.

sdotsom
15 Jun 2007, 01:32 PM
Yeah, I could see that with Best and Charlton playing the widest out of that top 5.

After the 60's, did Charlton stay up front and retire, or do what alot of guys did back then and just move further back the pitch until it was time to call a career?

Thanks.

SirManchester
15 Jun 2007, 01:37 PM
Thank you very much Tom.

TomClare
15 Jun 2007, 01:38 PM
Yeah, I could see that with Best and Charlton playing the widest out of that top 5.

After the 60's, did Charlton stay up front and retire, or do what alot of guys did back then and just move further back the pitch until it was time to call a career?

Thanks.

After David Herd broke his leg he moved to what people thought was a traditional centre forward's role - but again, in reality it wasn't. He'd lie deep in what we'd term a midfield position today, but would always get forward and support the strikers. He still managed to score some absolute crackerjacks right up and until her retired.

SirManchester
15 Jun 2007, 01:54 PM
1946-53



54- 58

-----------------Wood------------------
----Foulkes---------------------Byrne---
-----Colman------Jones---Blanchflower---
Berry-- Whelan---Taylor---Viollet -----Pegg

Again there was a few fluctations with the centre half position with Jackie Blanchflower vying with Mark Jones, and Albert Scanlon vying with David Pegg for the outside left position. Bobby Charlton also started to feature quite a bit between Oct 56 and Munich in both the inside forward positions.




Where did Edwards fit into this?

TomClare
15 Jun 2007, 02:13 PM
Where did Edwards fit into this?

Sorry,:o :o Edwards should have been in Blanchflowers place - i was thinking about the Jones/Blanchflower rotation for the centre half's position as I was typing.

The Guv'nor
15 Jun 2007, 02:33 PM
Unless you've already done so, will you be doing a piece on our decline?

I'm curious to know what went wrong.

TomClare
15 Jun 2007, 02:41 PM
Unless you've already done so, will you be doing a piece on our decline?

I'm curious to know what went wrong.

Yes, I'll be doing a few pieces regarding the decline and where I think that it all went wrong. Sad times back then and some of the things we saw beggared belief.

sdotsom
15 Jun 2007, 02:51 PM
Yeah, I really have to wonder what it must have felt like back then. I'm supporting in an era when United will never be out of th top 4, period. It would take something absolutely mind boggling for that to happen. So to see the team in the 2nd division must have been shocking.

Looking forward to that piece , Tom. Thanks.

The Guv'nor
15 Jun 2007, 03:59 PM
Amazing how Fergie has kept us successful over such a long period of time. I wonder who's the second longest serving manager at a big club after him.

PS; sdotsom, check your pm inbox.

TomClare
15 Jun 2007, 04:08 PM
Amazing how Fergie has kept us successful over such a long period of time. I wonder who's the second longest serving manager at a big club after him.

PS; sdotsom, check your pm inbox.

It's remarkable what Fergie has done at United. He's not my favourite person as a person, but in the managerial stakes he's amazing. As to who the second longest serving manager at a big club is; currently I'd say it's Wenger, and in the past, I would say it's Sir Matt - although I may be wrong.

MtP07
15 Jun 2007, 05:17 PM
It's remarkable what Fergie has done at United. He's not my favourite person as a person, but in the managerial stakes he's amazing. As to who the second longest serving manager at a big club is; currently I'd say it's Wenger, and in the past, I would say it's Sir Matt - although I may be wrong.

Out of curiosity, what don't you like about Fergie? Have you had the chance to meet him? :)

SirManchester
15 Jun 2007, 05:56 PM
Out of curiosity, what don't you like about Fergie? Have you had the chance to meet him? :)

When Tom met him, he gave Fergie an autograph to sign. Fergie being Fergie and not in the mood to sign, furiously threw the pen at Tom's head.

holytoledo
15 Jun 2007, 06:05 PM
When Tom met him, he gave Fergie an autograph to sign. Fergie being Fergie and not in the mood to sign, furiously threw the pen at Tom's head.

Then Tom was sold to Real Madrid.

TomClare
16 Jun 2007, 09:20 AM
Out of curiosity, what don't you like about Fergie? Have you had the chance to meet him? :)

Yes, I have met him on several occasions. There are several reasons why he's not my favourite person as a person, and they are personal and I'd never disclose them on a message board. As I said, I have every respect for him as a manager and I doubt that there would have ever been another manager who could have achieved what he has done for Manchester United. We would nevcer have achieved the success that we have without him.

Mac_Howard
21 Jun 2007, 11:00 AM
Just to expand a little on the formations Tom has shown - as we know today there are often different ways of displaying this. Back then the common formation was the "W" formation thus:


Left wing--------Centre forward--------Right wing

----------Inside left--------Inside right

-----------Left half---------Right half

Left fullback--------Centre half-------Right fullback

--------------------keeper

The "W" refers to the formation taken up by the front five and the inverse "W" taken up by the back five. Today we would probably call it 3-4-3. I'm not sure if the stats bear this out but, as you can see, there's a close one on one balance between defenders and attackers which I suspect led to more attacking play and goals.

Tom quite rightly makes a big point about Ernie Taylor in the post Munich team. What should be another claim to fame for Ernie, but seldom is, is that he was in fact the true dominating player for Blackpool in what is known as "The Matthews Final". It was Ernie who sprayed the passes around, particularly for Stan Matthews, for Blackpool to come from 3-1 down with 20 minutes to go to win 4-3 in the the 1953 FA Cup Final against Bolton.