MLS & WUSA: future possibilities?

[superdave]

Originally posted by kebzach
not to try and take a very good thread off-topic, bur are you suggesting that MLS or WUSA drop any foreign player limits they have?

Just WUSA, not MLS.

I've always been of the opinion that the foreigner limits aren't that big of a deal in MLS, due to the salary cap. But removing all limits would bring in a fair number of players.

My opinion is that if WUSA eliminated foreigner limits, they'd just replace the 1 or 2 or 3 worst Americans with 1 or 2 or 3 foreigners. Teams would still be predominantly American. I think that the low pay would mitigate against the league being flooded with Norwegians, and the Chinese gvt. would keep it from being flooded with Chinese. And I don't think other nations would contribute too many players. If I'm wrong about that, then forget I said anything. :)

[AndyMead]

WUSA's foreigner limits are governed by the USSF and their ability to sanction the league. This is not to say that the USSF wouldn't drop'em and bend over if WUSA told them to.

The "founding players" are not really "owners", I believe they were given a token stake in the league, but a token stake of zero is zero. Push will come to shove either this off-season or after the Womens World Cup next fall. There might be a couple of Founders to proud to join forces, but the fact is, most of these women (just like the men) just want to play soccer.

Some happy medium between the current WUSA and WMLS might be the only thing that keeps WUSA going past the WWC 2003. I hope they work something out. WUSA needs to get teams into MLS's SSSs. Teams that find appropriate facilities and agreements (like Carolina) are probably fine where they are, but some of the WUSA facilities are horribly inappropriate. Then again, so are some of the MLS ones.

I can definitely see MLS bailing out WUSA in the next year or so. A lot of that depends on the MLS's own health. They still recovering from the initial league startup and the debacle that was league owned teams. If new ownership comes on board for a 2004 expansion, with active contruction for a third and hopefully fourth SSS underway, then I can see a safety net being spread out.

Another possibility is a joint MLS/USL safety net. Instead of just looking at MLS squads, WUSA could exist entirely in Soccer Specific Stadiums and other partnerships with some top A-League teams.

Carson, CA; Columbus, OH; Virginia Beach, VA; Charleston, SC; Cary, NC; Blaine, MN, etc. I know there are others.

[kenntomasch]

The WUSA/A-League potential link was, I believe, mentioned at the time of the league's inception, as it makes a lot more sense for the Atlanta Beat and Atlanta Silverbacks to go in on a stadium together since WUSA's crowds aren't likely to get close to the MLS level anytime soon.

[SoFla Metro]

Originally posted by SpeakEasy8


I'm no expert on the matter... but I seem to recall hearing that the WUSA chose PAX over Oxygen. Oxygen would've had a different timeslot I do believe.

Anyone else know more about this? That just means they got a better deal (and TONS more households) via PAX than Oxygen.

[Elninho]

I believe there was some quote from Foudy or someone in the WUSA office about being able to beat out MLS for viewers...

[Ringo]

Originally posted by Elninho
I believe there was some quote from Foudy or someone in the WUSA office about being able to beat out MLS for viewers...


I remember this. Actually, I remember a quote about this because this was around WC99 and the women's team was insanely popular. an interviewer asked if the new women's league would be in run conjunction with the MLS and the league exec said they didn't 'want MLS piggybacking on our success.'
of course, it's been three years and I can't remember who said it .... but I remember there being this discussion on how the women's league was going to beat out the men's.
Maybe somebody who's more knowledgable on the matter can help but I remember there was some competition (animosity?) in the beginning. would/could that still affect their relationship today?

[kenntomasch]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think it was "piggybacking on our attendances" (or, at least, by the time it got around, that's what was said), and I believe that while it was attributed to Foudy, I don't believe there is any solid evidence that she actually said it.

If it was said, it was incredibly stupid, even without the benefit of hindsight, as your run-of-the-mill WUSA crowd isn't even half of your run-of-the-mill MLS crowd.

[neilgrossman]

Originally posted by kenntomasch
I'm not 100% sure, but I think it was "piggybacking on our attendances" (or, at least, by the time it got around, that's what was said), and I believe that while it was attributed to Foudy, I don't believe there is any solid evidence that she actually said it.


Foudy never stops running her mouth. I recall her doing a lot of self-promotion around the time. I'm sure she has said plenty of things that have been proven false. I doubt any one keeps much of a record.

There was a letter signed by most of the 20 national teams players saying they wanted to be part of the WUSA, not an MLS run league. I beleive Foudy was behind this, but almost every one signed. If some did some searching, I'm sure they could find it somewhere.

[seahawkdad]

Originally posted by kenntomasch


I'm sure they'd be interested in tenants. Just like Crew Stadium, where they've had Ohio State spring football games (while Ohio Stadium was being renovated) and high school football, and other events to try and generate some revenue. Nature abhors a vacuum, and it abhors an empty $50 million stadium even worse. You have to get more use out of it than just the 20 MLS games and maybe 10(?) other soccer events a year that come easily.

Particularly if I'm right about the business that Uncle Phil is really in. He's not in the soccer business--he's in the fill-your-facilities-and-make-money-from-tickets, concessions and parking-business.

Just take a look at what's common to his investments--soccer stadia, basketball and hockey arenas (both here and in Europe), movie theaters. Owning the teams in whole or in part (Lakers, Kings) guarantees they won't leave for other venues.

Thus, having women's soccer teams available for each of his SSS would fit this strategy.

Even better if they were part of MLS and under the influence of MLS's major investor.

[seahawkdad]

Originally posted by neilgrossman


Foudy never stops running her mouth. I recall her doing a lot of self-promotion around the time. I'm sure she has said plenty of things that have been proven false. I doubt any one keeps much of a record.


If she said this particular thing I never found it. I once did a Google search of Foudy quotes. I actually found none of the things that keep getting attributed to her. So either she hasn't said them or you are right about anyone keeping much of a record of them.

[kenntomasch]

Originally posted by seahawkdad
Particularly if I'm right about the business that Uncle Phil is really in. He's not in the soccer business--he's in the fill-your-facilities-and-make-money-from-tickets, concessions and parking-business.

Mainly because the latter is much more lucrative than the former.

I can tell you this...someone who knows Phil Anschutz a hell of a lot better than anyone on Bigsoccer once told me, and I quote:


"What people don't understand is that soccer is this much (holds thumb and index finger about an inch apart) of what Phil has going and it's about this much (holds hands about two and a half feet apart) of what he spends his time and his passion on."

There's nothing wrong, as I see it, with trying to make something you really, really care passionately about profitable.

[SoFla Metro]

Originally posted by kenntomasch


Mainly because the latter is much more lucrative than the former.

I can tell you this...someone who knows Phil Anschutz a hell of a lot better than anyone on Bigsoccer once told me, and I quote:



There's nothing wrong, as I see it, with trying to make something you really, really care passionately about profitable. well said.

[Andy_B]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think it was "piggybacking on our attendances" (or, at least, by the time it got around, that's what was said), and I believe that while it was attributed to Foudy, I don't believe there is any solid evidence that she actually said it.

She was quoted in a article stating as such.

It was displayed all over these boards (which I believe were known as just soccerboards.com back then).

The "solid evidence" that is lacking is that the article is now vapor ware on cyberspace.

But that can not change the fact that is was read by many and remembered.

The exact quote was what Kenn stated although I forget the exact question, something along the lines of WMLS and playing double headers with MLS sides.

Andy

[ThreeApples]

The "piggyback" quote was in a Jeff Bradley Boot Room. It was attributed to an unnamed player. It was never attributed to Foudy or anyone else in a reputable media outlet. Oliver Tse accused Julie Foudy, and that accusation stuck.

[kenntomasch]

That is how I remember it, Noah.

[AndyMead]

Originally posted by seahawkdad
Particularly if I'm right about the business that Uncle Phil is really in. He's not in the soccer business--he's in the fill-your-facilities-and-make-money-from-tickets, concessions and parking-business.


And in fact, the prospectus for the Carson site that was online (it's probably still there, but I don't think I saved the URL) had an "anticipated usage" chart for the soccer stadium with event type and anticipated parking needs/attendance. The chart showed 12 WUSA dates per year.

[AndyMead]

Originally posted by kenntomasch
That is how I remember it, Noah.

And anymore an online quote becomes "gospel". Nobody is allowed to "mouth off". Once said, any statement is lifetime proof positive. Even if true, it only indicates Foudy's feelings at the time the quote was said. Perhaps she still feels this way, perhaps not. Then you get into the "interpretations" that rival competing theologians and the bible. She didn't say that MLS sucks and she hopes it dies, yet that's what many on the MLS boards feel she meant. But she definitely didn't say THAT.

Heck, if I was starting a new venture, I'd likely say something like what she possibly did. She's a professional athlete. Part of the territory is conceit and ego. Given the turnout at the Womens World Cup, combined with the declining attendance of MLS in those days, and the fact that maybe 10,000 folks were in Stanford for San Jose / DC United, yet the reported attendance was the 75,000 that showed up for US/Brazil - her statement is understandable.

Context no longer seems relevant. A few months of Oliver Tse typing about "Loudy Foudy" and it's game, set, match. It's "that b*tch Foudy".

If Foudy were a man, I'm guessing that most of the MLS folks on these boards would consider her the greatest thing since sliced bread. She's smart, she knows soccer, she communicates well, she's opinionated, and she loves to talk. Sort of Ray Hudson without the accent. Unfortunately the "women's soccer is the ruin of all that is good" crowd have adopted her as the queen bee of WUSA.

[metrosarenumberone]

i think th ewusa will pull through. many doubted the wnba at first but now that is doing very sucessful. I think once uswnt wins the 2003 wc they will get a bigger turnout, or not maybe nxt years season will hurt them sinc eall the big stars will be out playing friendlies.

[SoFla Metro]

Andy and Julie, sittin' in a tree...


;)

[SoFla Metro]

Originally posted by metrosarenumberone
i think th ewusa will pull through. many doubted the wnba at first but now that is doing very sucessful. I think once uswnt wins the 2003 wc they will get a bigger turnout, or not maybe nxt years season will hurt them sinc eall the big stars will be out playing friendlies. By exactly which standard do you term the WNBA "successful?"