"I don't get BS sometimes."

[Dr Jay]

This is a quote from MountainHawk in the Tand T summary thread. And I agree.

I am starting this thread to try to damp down the widespread "hating" that is replacing true analysis in N and A right now.

Apparently to some, nothing we do is ever "good enough". If we don't beat every minnow by 5-0 "we had a terrible game". If our strikers don't finish every chance, "they suck." If our keeper looks bad on one save "never play him again".

For those of us who actually enjoy ANALYSIS in the N and A section, these useless posts are becoming annoying.

Let me suggest some simple guidelines...

1. Please stop posting like you didn't actually watch the game, but rather scanned a box score afterwards. If you want to analyze a game and comment on it, please actually watch with a critical eye and not a preconceived notion.

2. If you want to post a ridiculous statement like "player X should never see the field again" please follow it up with the name or names of players that you think should take his place.

3. Our team is ranked in the top 30 in the World. We are not a top 10 team. We have few, if any, field players that would start for a top 10 team. Don't hate Brian Ching (or Twellman, or Johnson) because he isn't Theirry Henry. He's Brian Ching for gods sake. If he was able to finish like Henry, he wouldn't be playing for Houston.

The corrollary here is that if you think a player shouldn't be playing due to his performance, look at guideline # 2 above. If you think Altidore is ready to take Ching's place NOW, at the Gold Cup, and he would give us a better chance to win, fine. State it and back it up. By why hate on Ching at the same time ? He is what he is. And he is playing for our team, wearing the US shirt. You may not support him for his talent, but support him for his effort and for the fact that right now, in 2007, he's one of the four best strikers this country has.

[Winoman]

4. Use the ignore list. It makes browsing some of these threads a lot more bearable.

[nowherenova]

This is a quote from MountainHawk in the Tand T summary thread. And I agree.

I am starting this thread to try to damp down the widespread "hating" that is replacing true analysis in N and A right now.

Apparently to some, nothing we do is ever "good enough". If we don't beat every minnow by 5-0 "we had a terrible game". If our strikers don't finish every chance, "they suck." If our keeper looks bad on one save "never play him again".

For those of us who actually enjoy ANALYSIS in the N and A section, these useless posts are becoming annoying.

Let me suggest some simple guidelines...

1. Please stop posting like you didn't actually watch the game, but rather scanned a box score afterwards. If you want to analyze a game and comment on it, please actually watch with a critical eye and not a preconceived notion.

2. If you want to post a ridiculous statement like "player X should never see the field again" please follow it up with the name or names of players that you think should take his place.

3. Our team is ranked in the top 30 in the World. We are not a top 10 team. We have few, if any, field players that would start for a top 10 team. Don't hate Brian Ching (or Twellman, or Johnson) because he isn't Theirry Henry. He's Brian Ching for gods sake. If he was able to finish like Henry, he wouldn't be playing for Houston.

The corrollary here is that if you think a player shouldn't be playing due to his performance, look at guideline # 2 above. If you think Altidore is ready to take Ching's place NOW, at the Gold Cup, and he would give us a better chance to win, fine. State it and back it up. By why hate on Ching at the same time ? He is what he is. And he is playing for our team, wearing the US shirt. You may not support him for his talent, but support him for his effort and for the fact that right now, in 2007, he's one of the four best strikers this country has.


Let me suggest not using the FIFA rankings as an argument point if you want people to take you seriously.

and Ching is one of the best US forwards AVAILABLE right now.

[Riotom9]

While I agree the FIFA rankings are a joke, an objective analysis would see we are in fact a top 25-30 team.

And I agree with the original post. While it is sad to see some missed chances - I can't agree with the opinion posted here or even on soccernet.com that the USA was woeful in creating opportunities.

I thought the USA showed tons of creativity - even without Donovan they attacked in many different ways; players got many good looks at goal. That is the main sign of success as opposed to the Guatamala FRIENDLY where we dominated possession but created few true chances.

[nowherenova]

While I agree the FIFA rankings are a joke, an objective analysis would see we are in fact a top 25-30 team.

And I agree with the original post. While it is sad to see some missed chances - I can't agree with the opinion posted here or even on soccernet.com that the USA was woeful in creating opportunities.

I thought the USA showed tons of creativity - even without Donovan they attacked in many different ways; players got many good looks at goal. That is the main sign of success as opposed to the Guatamala FRIENDLY where we dominated possession but created few true chances.

I think posters are bitching more about the finishing then the creativity. Actually, for me the displeasure at our finishing is because of the excellent opportunities created by our midfield and outside backs.

Which they flubbed more often than not.

[sidefootsitter]

Elo has US at 18.

It has T&T at 85 ... and this wasn't even their best squad - no World Cup players due to the WC compensation dispute.

And Wim Rijsbergen (where the heck does Telefutura get "Glinton" from?) wasn't doing anything specific to stop the US. He just played it straight up.

The US did good but it should have done better.

[MountainHawk]

The US did good but it should have done better.


Why? This is what I don't understand.

Other than the last 10 minutes of the first half, did you ever feel like T&T was in this game? I know I didn't. The US thoroughly dominated the match.

Now, we can complain about the finishing, if we really want to. It's hard to argue with that. Twellman's finishing skills seem to vanish when he puts on the US jersey.

Nothing we can do about our finishing at the moment. Ching, Twellman, and EJ are the best we have. Altidore isn't there yet, though unless something goes horribly wrong, he ought to be a big part of the WCQ campaign.

I was annoyed a little at the disorganization in the Guatemala game, but a team that's not as skilled but nearly as fit and determined to shut down a game can usually do just that. The US broke through for 1 goal, and it was enough. Not pretty, but effective enough.

I think it's silly to say "we'd get killed by a Euro side if we played like we did against T&T". We'd NEVER play that style of soccer against a team that was skilled enough to break it down. We had a clear fitness and skill advantage over T&T yesterday, and we pressured the ball and pretty much denied T&T any realistic opportunities, other than the one stint at the end of the 1st half.

[Tonerl]

While I agree the FIFA rankings are a joke, an objective analysis would see we are in fact a top 25-30 team.

And I agree with the original post. While it is sad to see some missed chances - I can't agree with the opinion posted here or even on soccernet.com that the USA was woeful in creating opportunities.

I thought the USA showed tons of creativity - even without Donovan they attacked in many different ways; players got many good looks at goal. That is the main sign of success as opposed to the Guatamala FRIENDLY where we dominated possession but created few true chances.

I agree with this. I just read Andrea Canales' recap on soccernet, and I thought, "What game were you watching?" She essentially blamed the midfield for our lack of goals because the forwards didn't finish. It was non-sensical.

We created a bunch of chances, but Ching is obviously in a slump and EJ was mildly timid at times and the assistant ref just killed us. Ching could have easily had a hat trick; hopefully his goal will get him back on track.

Again, we should win that game 4-0 or 5-0, but to imply that we didn't dominate is silly. To act as though we didn't create chances is silly.

[Tonerl]

Why? This is what I don't understand.

(...)

Now, we can complain about the finishing, if we really want to. It's hard to argue with that.

I think that's all he means. We dominated and created chances, but we should have put a few more away. So, what he said (that we did well but could have been better), is dead on.

[MountainHawk]

I think that's all he means. We dominated and created chances, but we should have put a few more away. So, what he said (that we did well but could have been better), is dead on.
I guess I think it's unrealistic to expect our finishing to be better. It is what it is with this group of forwards ... not very good. What reason to we have to expect Twellman is finally going to find the touch in the international game?

It's pretty rare that we score a goal in a competitive game that isn't:

(a) set piece
(b) a tap in where the pass beat the goalie

[ussoccerFan12358]

I would rather have Altidore than Ching at the Gold Cup, not only because he's better right now, but because he has more potential than Ching or Twellman, and EJ, but that's just not possible because of the U-20 WC.

[Walter3000]

People here like to run down and hate their own players, why?

Is it because they cant handle the fact that we dont have ROnaldos and Maldinis playing for us?

Is it envy?

Ignorance?

I dont know, but i never got it. Soon as someone new comes on the scene, he's the next big thing, and a few months later when they realize he's good enough to play for the USMNT, but not a World Class star people here enjoy trying to destroy them and make their sill ylittle comments like he should never wear the jersey again, and mindless analysis, when they obviously:

1.Dont watch the matches

or

2.Aren't capable of understaning what they watch.

That's why they run down our strikers for not finishing, when even the best strikers on the planet(ours are not close) dont even finish off all their chances, or our wide players cannot beat their marks 1 v1 every time down the pitch(the best cant either and once again we arent close), or how they expect our CMs to dominate the midfield physically and have crisp field splitting passes at every turn(again way unreasonable). We have what we have, learn to accept it. The level of player we have are guys good enough to play certain roles, and good enough to do one or two things very well, but within the system of the other players around him playing well. We dont have world class midfielders who are going to go out and dominate the midfield physically, tactically and skillfully Just like we dont have fullbacks who will destroy the other teams flanks and at the same time attack like crazy down the wing. We dont have attackers that will dribble through defenses non stop with almost 100% success and then put in that end product(deadly cross, through ball, or shot) with regularity. We dont have strikers who will setup their teammates, and finish at a world class clip.

Im just baffled by how many people legitimately hate and root against certain players, it's a sad and alarming trend.

Then again, this is USA Big Soccer, the biggest group of childish ignorant people I have ever seen

[aggiebird02]

Unrealistic expectations and no respect for the idea that he is playing for our team, wearing the US shirt, that's the problem here. It's alright to analyze and even be critical, but it's not right to attack a player. That 'Landycakes' sign is the perfect example; what good does that do anyone? It's pathetic...

[aggiebird02]

Aren't capable of understaning what they watchI think this has a lot to do with it...

[Tonerl]

People here like to run down and hate their own players, why?

Is it because they cant handle the fact that we dont have ROnaldos and Maldinis playing for us?

Is it envy?

Ignorance?

I dont know, but i never got it. Soon as someone new comes on the scene, he's the next big thing, and a few months later when they realize he's good enough to play for the USMNT, but not a World Class star people here enjoy trying to destroy them and make their sill ylittle comments like he should never wear the jersey again, and mindless analysis, when they obviously:

1.Dont watch the matches

or

2.Aren't capable of understaning what they watch.

That's why they run down our strikers for not finishing, when even the best strikers on the planetours are not close) dont even finish off all their chances. We have what we have, learn to accept it.

Im just baffled by how many people legitimately hate and root against certain players, it's a sad and alarming trend.

Then again, this is USA Big Soccer, the biggest group of childish ignorant people I have ever seen

Well or course you're right and there's a long list of players this has happened to. Reyna, Donovan, Beasley, Dempsey, Freddy, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The thing that bothers me even more than this, though, is that most people acknowledge this distressing cycle, and yet those same posters still do it to their personal favorite whipping boy.

Oh, the hypocrisy! :)

[dfb547490]

BigSoccer has a lower level of discourse than sports talk radio. I can't even read 75% of the crap written in this forum. There are some great posters here but unfortunately they are all too often drowned out by the idiot brigade.

[chad]

Nothing we can do about our finishing at the moment. Ching, Twellman, and EJ are the best we have. Altidore isn't there yet.Not to dig, but we don't actually know that Altidore isn't there yet. Since he didn't play, and has never payed with the big boys, I don't think we know.

At the same time, was anyone surprised by the performances yesterday of the happy fun time crew of Twellman, Ching, and Johnson (throw your hands up!)? Certainly we cannot blame them for the AR's incompetence, but I don't have great confidence that had the calls been correct, we would have seen a different result. Past events and performances are often good indicators of future events and performances.

[Non-dairy Creamer]

Elo has US at 18.

It has T&T at 85 ... and this wasn't even their best squad - no World Cup players due to the WC compensation dispute.

And Wim Rijsbergen (where the heck does Telefutura get "Glinton" from?) wasn't doing anything specific to stop the US. He just played it straight up.

The US did good but it should have done better.

I understand full well that TNT had a very young team but so did we!

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jonah_freedman/06/09/us.goldcup.victory/index.html

the future looks very bright for US Soccer, by 2014 we should have a very competitive team, many of the kids you saw start will be coming into their primes and it should be very fun.

If you look at the numerous offsides calls that went against us we prob. would've scored more in the first half, that linesman was horrible.

[buckydoc]

My analysis on the generally negative tone --

American soccer fans want desperately to be viewed by Europeans and South Americans as serious, sophisticated and discerning students of the game. Its sort of the opposite of the the rampant Yankee jingoism that characterizes US fans of other sports -- basketball being the best example.

[Dr Jay]

Not to dig, but we don't actually know that Altidore isn't there yet. Since he didn't play, and has never payed with the big boys, I don't think we know.



True. But if you are Bradley and the Gold Cup is something you want to win, I just don't see the value in experimenting with Altidore now. As it stands, we are already sending out a very young squad with about half having less than 10 caps.

I don't think there is a US fan out there who doesn't hope that Altidore, Davies or Smith clearly supplants our current crop of strikers by 2010. But if I am Bradley, I wait to see how he does in MLS this Summer and with the U-20's. If he shows signs that he is a dominating player, cap him in the Fall or Winter at a friendly and slowly work him into the regular camps in time for qualifying. That is best case scenario.

If he's not ready to excell in MLS and/or the U20's than he's not ready for the USMNT.