Where Do American Field Players Rank?

[Sport Billy]

** This discussion does not involve goal keepers as the US always have and always will develop some of the best goal keepers in the world. **

That being said, I was discussing with a friend the other day the topic of where American players rank. We came to this conclusion that there is no American who would qualify as a TOP 150 in the world.

Here is our logic.

Take the top 5 leagues (Ita, Spn, Ger, Eng, Hol) - that's 96 teams.
We concluded that there is no current American player who could qualify as the "best" player on any of those teams.

So no American in the Top 100.

Add to that a couple Scottish teams, French, Portuguese, and South American teams.
Consider also, that there are some excellent "second best" players out there who are better than some of the "best on their team".
i.e.: There are 3-4 players on each elite team such as Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Real, Barca, Milan etc. who are better than say the best player on Wigan.

So, you can add another 75 players or so.

So, here's the question:
Where does the best American fall when compared to the rest of the world

Is there any American in the top 100 players in the World? - IMO, "NO"
Top 150? - Again IMO, "NO"
Top 200? - IMO, "Maybe"
Top 250? - IMO, "Yes"

So, what do you think?
Where does the best American rank in comparison to the rest of the world.
If you want to name him, feel free.

[Elninho]

Take the top 5 leagues (Ita, Spn, Ger, Eng, Hol) - that's 96 teams.
We concluded that there is no current American player who could qualify as the "best" player on any of those teams.


Fulham wasn't relegated. McBride has been their Player of the Year for both of the last two seasons, which suggests to me that he is most likely their best player... so this premise is false.

And McBride is not the best American field player.

The fallacy in the club argument is that there will always be the occasional player in smaller leagues - and this includes MLS - who are capable of competing at a much higher level. I would argue that Landon Donovan, for example, would be the best player at quite a few first-tier European clubs, including clubs that get into the Champions League. Keep in mind that the Euro team that he failed at was in the Champions League knockout rounds at the time - and furthermore his failure was more an unwillingness to stick it out when his direct competitor at his position played lights-out for a couple months right after he arrived. (I recall that when Donovan first arrived at Leverkusen, Robsen Ponte immediately scored in the next 5 or 6 consecutive games, and you just don't take someone out of the lineup when he's doing that!)

[cpwilson80]

That being said, I was discussing with a friend the other day the topic of where American players rank. We came to this conclusion that there is no American who would qualify as a TOP 150 in the world.

Here is our logic.

Take the top 5 leagues (Ita, Spn, Ger, Eng, Hol) - that's 96 teams.
We concluded that there is no current American player who could qualify as the "best" player on any of those teams.

So no American in the Top 100.


Here's the problem with that logic: the best player on a crappy team - even in the top flight - might not even start on a better team. Are those ten guys worse than that original player? Most likely, they are not.

[Sport Billy]

The fallacy in the club argument is that there will always be the occasional player in smaller leagues - and this includes MLS - who are capable of competing at a much higher level.

Here's the problem with that logic: the best player on a crappy team - even in the top flight - might not even start on a better team. Are those ten guys worse than that original player? Most likely, they are not.

I don't disagree with you guys - I was just explaining the premise we used - yes, there are holes in it. But there are holes going the other way - ie there are probably 8-9 guys on Man U better than any American. So it all comes out in the wash. None of that changes the conclusion that there is no American in the top 150 players in the world.

You still haven't said where you would rank them.

[Z010 Union]

Fulham wasn't relegated. McBride has been their Player of the Year for both of the last two seasons, which suggests to me that he is most likely their best player... so this premise is false.

And McBride is not the best American field player.

The fallacy in the club argument is that there will always be the occasional player in smaller leagues - and this includes MLS - who are capable of competing at a much higher level. I would argue that Landon Donovan, for example, would be the best player at quite a few first-tier European clubs, including clubs that get into the Champions League. Keep in mind that the Euro team that he failed at was in the Champions League knockout rounds at the time - and furthermore his failure was more an unwillingness to stick it out when his direct competitor at his position played lights-out for a couple months right after he arrived. (I recall that when Donovan first arrived at Leverkusen, Robsen Ponte immediately scored in the next 5 or 6 consecutive games, and you just don't take someone out of the lineup when he's doing that!)

But could you have taken 149 other forwards not on the team and scored those goals with the same quality of service?

The varied success of foreign players in our domestic league also speaks to the quality, or lack of quality, developed. Angel is shredding defenses like he did before his move to the Prem - does that make South American and North American leagues shite? Other players have difficulty with the pace and conditioning needed to play here because those two can erase some of the skill deficiencies American players have.

[Brandinho]

** This discussion does not involve goal keepers as the US always have and always will develop some of the best goal keepers in the world. **

That being said, I was discussing with a friend the other day the topic of where American players rank. We came to this conclusion that there is no American who would qualify as a TOP 150 in the world.

Here is our logic.

Take the top 5 leagues (Ita, Spn, Ger, Eng, Hol) - that's 96 teams.
We concluded that there is no current American player who could qualify as the "best" player on any of those teams.

So no American in the Top 100.

Add to that a couple Scottish teams, French, Portuguese, and South American teams.
Consider also, that there are some excellent "second best" players out there who are better than some of the "best on their team".
i.e.: There are 3-4 players on each elite team such as Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Real, Barca, Milan etc. who are better than say the best player on Wigan.

So, you can add another 75 players or so.

So, here's the question:
Where does the best American fall when compared to the rest of the world

Is there any American in the top 100 players in the World? - IMO, "NO"
Top 150? - Again IMO, "NO"
Top 200? - IMO, "Maybe"
Top 250? - IMO, "Yes"

So, what do you think?
Where does the best American rank in comparison to the rest of the world.
If you want to name him, feel free.
You know, I have some friends over in England who feel that Landon Donovan is one of the top 10 players in the world.

[Sport Billy]

You know, I have some friends over in England who feel that Landon Donovan is one of the top 10 players in the world.
WOW - if your serious, I truly do not know how to respond.

If your kidding, I'd tell you that in a month, he won't even be the best player on his team.

or I'd tell you that is is a top 10 player if playing a team that he's not afraid of.

[cc-atl]

Another way to think about it is how many club teams are there where would a US player not be able to crack the starting 10.

I think Landon is the top US player. I am not sure he is in the top 250 players in the world.

[DynamoGuy16]

Italy,Spain,Germany,England and France have the top leagues in the world.

Holland's Eredivisie is not in the top 5.

[Karl K]

This is an interesting issue for a number of reasons, some of which don't have anything to do, necessarily, with some sort of objective standard of playing quality.

First, you have the work permit issue. This immediately sets up barriers for a lot of players. Think about Convey's tribulations in getting a permit. In my view, he is a very serviceable player in ANY top league in the world (not a star, but a good left-footed winger).

Meanwhile, think about a guy like Jay DeMerit. If he winds up back in the EPL, and as a starter, does that make him a top player and...say...Jimmy Conrad not? Jay has a Euro passport. It opens doors.

Second, and we all know it exists, there is a still a bias against American players. It's getting better, of course, but it's out there. Brazilian players, no matter who they are, will always get the benefit of the doubt simply because they are Brazilian. And some African players too.

Third, I think that when it comes to high level 1st division soccer there is, for the vast majority of players, such a marginal difference in quality that it's hard to discern. Really, is Oguchi Onuywu THAT much worse than, say, Wes Brown? Or, certainly, Khalid Boularouz? Is Clint Dempsey THAT much worse than Frank Ribery, who clubs have been lusting after? And think about a kid like Steve Sidwell, who was snatched up gleefully by Chelsea. Surely he's not better than Landon Donovan??

I think it is true that we have no truly transcendent star player -- a player like Rooney or Drogba or Kaka. But there are only a handful of those guys around at any given time.

[sirfallsalot_2000]

(Sigh) I will take a stab at this one...and even defend Landycakes. I think Donovan's talent could land him a spot on a solid team in the said top 5 leagues in Europe. He can do things in games that every team could use. It was my understanding that it Donovan's playing level suffered from his comfort level of playing in Germany. In other words, he missed the SoCal culture and couldn't get over it.

So yes, I think Donovan is a top 150 player. No, I don't think he will ever succeed in Europe.

[Sport Billy]

Italy,Spain,Germany,England and France have the top leagues in the world.

Holland's Eredivisie is not in the top 5.


I'll give you that.
Historically it has been Holland, but with the decline of Ajax and Feyenoord it probably has been France for the last 3-4 years.

[Adam Zebrowski]

i think clubs who ignore talent level do so at their own peril....

club football is cut throat, and actual talent needs to be evaluated or else bad thibngs can happen to you....

at the elite level, say top 250, this is basically the top 25 teams X 10 players...

but in actuality, say team 26 to 50, perhaps a marginal team like fulham enters the bottom 40-50 range...

so the top 2 or 3 best on 26-50 could easiliy supplant guys on top 25 sides...

talent wise, i think donovan is in the top 250....

and feilhaber will be soon too....

and dare i say in a couple years, so will freddy...

that's 3...

and baby bradley can become a monster too, add another...

altidore...add another...

things are changing

[mdfc]

Let me muck the waters up some more...

From what performances are we evaluating these players? How they play with their club or how they play with their country?

Are we evaluating our players on how they play week in, week out in their leagues or how they play on a team that's thrown together for a few weeks [sometimes days] and competes on the national level?

Frank Lampard is a different guy for England than he is for Chelsea.

I subscribe to the bell curve theory. There aren't 250 great players on the planet, there's more like 25-50 elite players, real match-winners. The rest are a lot harder to separate and it depends more on who you play with [that makes you look good] and the system you play in. There's a lot more "B's" than there are "A's", and a common mistake is to over-rate the B's because of the success they have playing along side "A's".

My question is, what would an American player have to do be ranked in your Top 50, 100, 150?

Score at will in the MLS? I doubt it...
Be a 10-goal scorer in the EPL? Mcbride has done that...
A 20-goal scorer? First you gotta get the chance!
Score a goal every-other-game for the US? But against what competition?

My point is the argument is rigged so that it's almost impossible to rank a US player that highly with out some kind of leap-of-faith discussion.

[Eliezar]

My question is, what would an American player have to do be ranked in your Top 50, 100, 150?


The day the 5th best US player becomes a starter for a CL side in England, Italy, or Spain he will suddenly catapult into being the best US player and one of the top 100 players in the world.

Even though he will likely still not be the best US player and even though there are amazing players on average teams and average players on amazing teams. The average players on amazing teams just get so over-rated or get totally butchered.

[giffenbone]

Here we go...I'm gonna rank all the players in the world in my opinion until I get to the first US player...

1) Cristiano Ronaldo (I'm not saying he's the best but I have to list someone)

2) oh screw it...

[Sinter]

I'm going to go ahead and say talent wise Landon is probably top 100 in the world right now. People may look at me and say I'm crazy but it's true. Once you get to that second half of that top 100, I believe you can honestly make a case for Landon being among them. He takes heat only because he doesn't want to play in Europe. While I'd love to see him go, I'm not going to take away from his talent level because of it. The man is currently our all time assist leader and will be our all-time leading scorer before he hangs up his jersey. I'd be willing to be he could succeed in a league like Italy or Spain moreso than a England or Germany. However, Landon isn't one to challange himself with a task like that which kills me. Could he start for Barca? No, but I could easily see him breaking into a lesser CL/UEFA cup contender team like Zaragoza, Dep. La Coruna, Atletico Madrid etc.

[Karl K]

Could [Landon] start for Barca? No, but I could easily see him breaking into a lesser CL/UEFA cup contender team like Zaragoza, Dep. La Coruna, Atletico Madrid etc.

Could Landon start for Chelsea? Maybe not, but he'd get 25 games.

Could he start for Arsenal? Well, is he as good as Fabregas? Probably not, but Fabregas isn't THAT much better.

Could he start for Liverpool? Well, is he as good as Xabi Alonso? Arguably.

Could Landon start for Everton? Tottenham? Newcastle? Let's put it this way...LD is certainly as good as, or better than, Joey Barton.

[jpoler1]

Could Landon start for Chelsea? Maybe not, but he'd get 25 games.

Could he start for Arsenal? Well, is he as good as Fabregas? Probably not, but Fabregas isn't THAT much better.

Could he start for Liverpool? Well, is he as good as Gilberto Silva? Probably not, but Silva isn't THAT much better.

Could Landon start for Everton? Tottenham? Newcastle? Let's put it this way...LD is certainly as good as, or better than, Joey Barton.


I like this idea. I would say that Donovan is on par with Barton. I would also like to think that Donovan could play on and start (depending upon position) in MOST and NOT ALL of the premiership teams. I would have to rank him in the top 150 players in the world based solely on skill and ability. If we had Word Tryout day and put anyone in the world through some sort of a soccer combine, which computed mathematical calculations which ranked players and gave a numerical ranking for their level of play (which would be nearly impossible in my opinion). I think that Donovan would show up somewhere in the top 150. IMHO.

[RalleeMonkey]

I think Donovan's prolly one of the top 150.

Using your standard, if McB wasn't the best player at Fulham this season, then it was Boca.

Cherundolo is frequently the captain at Hannover, & may be the best player on his team, though defensive players are rarely considered the best player.

And, you know, maybe there isn't a yank in the top 150. But, we've got a lot of young talent coming up. It doesn't matter where we stand right now, but in 3 years.

And, I'd venture to say we'd field a much better WC team this year if it had been WC07, instead of 06. 1st, you've gotta figure that McB would still be playing. EJ is on fire. We've got several guys that would be a better choice at LB than Lewis. Gooch has another year of experience. Boca has been playing at his more natural Central defense spot. Feilhaber or Bradley would give Reyna a run for his money in the midfield. Dempsey would not be taking a backseat to a left footed player at RM. Beaz is in better form, and Mapp continues to emerge as an option on the left. Howard had a great year at Everton. And our depth is good enough that we wouldn't have to take an out of shape/form JO'B or a too old Ben Olson.