Bit controversial this one

[United Pumps]

If Pirlo could tackle then he'd be god.

[Seaside Mafia]

:confused: did we miss your point?

You didn't. On or two others did though. Never mind - interesting debate nonetheless.

[Seaside Mafia]

Thanks for completely missing the point. :rolleyes:

Did you watch Wes in the play-off at the weekend?

Probably added another £250K to his transfer value.

[jpick]

You didn't. On or two others did though. Never mind - interesting debate nonetheless.

well good, cause I took a cheap shot at you on the milan transfer thread, lol:p.
yes, it is an interesting debate. plus, you admitted you hadn't watched him all that often, and you an only go by what you see, eh?

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Did you watch Wes in the play-off at the weekend?

Probably added another £250K to his transfer value.

Unfortunately I only caught the two goals. Poor keeping for the first and a great striker for the second. Congrats. Sadly we will probably only get around that amount (at best) for Wes. :(

[lololol]

He doesn't do the "dirty work" for his team, that's Gattuso (in Milan and the Italian NT).

I would say Ambrosini has done more "dirty work" this year when they are both playing on the field.

[Leto]

Did you watch Wes in the play-off at the weekend?

Probably added another £250K to his transfer value.

Any word of him moving? I hadn't heard many rumours. Good to see him making an impact again.

[dor02]

Right -judging from other posts, this'll go down like a sack of spanners. Many people suggest that David Beckham's main contribution to his side these days is dead-ball delivery and that he doesn't really contribute anything else. That may or may not be the case but, ladies and gentlemen, off the back of that description I give you................Andrea Pirlo.

I don't watch enough Serie A to be 100% sure, but whenever I see Pirlo play, he does very little. Surely one of the more over-rated players in the modern game? A latter-day Demetrio "The Crab" Albertini?You usually have some good posts but this one is clearly the worst.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Any word of him moving? I hadn't heard many rumours. Good to see him making an impact again.

The current situation:
http://www.livingstonfc.co.uk/newsdet.php?news_id=737&type_id=1

[Leto]

The current situation:
http://www.livingstonfc.co.uk/newsdet.php?news_id=737&type_id=1

Danke.

Now, how does Wes Hoolahan compare to Andre Pirlo?

[Seaside Mafia]

You usually have some good posts but this one is clearly the worst.

Mebbe, but I still find it more interesting than a "whose better, Lampard or Gerrard" debate. (I still think Pirlo's massively over-rated mind).

[Seaside Mafia]

The current situation:
http://www.livingstonfc.co.uk/newsdet.php?news_id=737&type_id=1

Bugger! Will we ever get away from these penny-pinching tosspots?

[Seaside Mafia]

Danke.

Now, how does Wes Hoolahan compare to Andre Pirlo?

Good question:

Wes - under-rated dynamic playmaer
Pirlo - over-rated crab-like dwarf

[Seaside Mafia]

The current situation:
http://www.livingstonfc.co.uk/newsdet.php?news_id=737&type_id=1

This would appear to say different.

http://boards.rivals.net/default.asp?sid=912&p=16&style=1&forumId=6537&action=1&replytoid=2118088539

[jpick]

Good question:

Wes - under-rated dynamic playmaer
Pirlo - over-rated crab-like dwarf

don't know much about this wes guy to be honest, but i do know about pirlo, so i will address that.

i am guessing that crab combined with the earlier beckham reference (I know you're not saying that pirlo plays like beckham exactly but that they are similar in one key way), you mean that in your estimation, he is good at free kicks and other than that, has one great skill or so (beckham it is crossing the ball from the right, pirlo would be his long passing a la albertini).

other than that it is mostly sideways passing and not much else of use, or at least of a guy of his reputation. that is how i am understanding you, if this is incorrect, then i apologize in advance.



ok, so in my opinion, yes, he does do those two things well, but you are grossly underestimating his ability to
A) "pull the strings."
this is important because you have to have good vision and enough tactical awareness to see the entire play before it happens, so to speak. sometimes the right pass is a ten-yard sideways pass, others it is a 40-yard ball to the right back making a run up the flanks. the point is, you can't just look at the specific pass and say, "a ha, the average deep-lying playmaker could make that pass, hence that is nothing special." instead you have to look at the entire play and gauge whether that pass helped the team or not and set up the play well. he has the ability and intelligence to do this important job well.

B) his work rate, he runs a lot and has good positioning. yes, he never will have the physique to go in with essien-esque tackles, but he can anticipate the balls that gattuso and ambrosini force opposing midfield players to spray and get in those passing lanes and intercept balls uncannily, qll the while relentlessly pushing forward and going to the back line if need be to start an attack form right in front of the back 4 for 90 minutes, no less.

C) be an additional playmaker once he gets into the final third of the pitch. with him, kaka, and seedorf, it is just like having three number tens when pirlo does get forward. in fact, one of his specialties is the countless number of times he chips the ball over the defense onto the foot or chest of sheva or kaka breaking towards goal. this season we didn't have a striker with a ton of pace, so this happened less, but he still did it quite a bit (ronaldo's goal versus siena comes to mind, also the play versus liverpool to kaka that was ruled offside to inzaghi, and others. if we get a guy like eto'o or henry with their pace, it will be just like when sheva was here in that respect). remember, pirlo until about 21 or so, was looked upon as one of the brightest young italian 10s, with skills right up there with the other good ones. you can't be an italian #10 and not be comfortable with the ball at your feet, that would be like having a goalie with one arm, the coaches would change your position at the youth level before you got that far. also, he is very difficult to dispossess and he is two-footed shooting the ball (watch for all those things in this clip, yes, i know youtube clips aren't the best way to judge a player, but then again they can show off specific traits. look for his dribbling, chipping, and left-footed shot)
QnGROiHdUPY

yes, it is mainly free kicks and goals, but it was the best i could find in the few videos i viewed, as almost all the videos focus on his free kicks.

also, he had a vicious left-footed shot that led to the corner versus germany right before the goal, which by the way was assisted brilliantly by... pirlo.
o5tiNKOXWHM


this is a guy who won at the under 21 level, won bronze at the olympics, won a world cup (and a bronze ball, probably deserving the silver ball), and for club has won almost every trophy you can, while being one of the most, if not the most valuable player for those teams at various times. plus, his position for both italy and milan is so important in the tactical setup, that if he was even an above average player, maybe even well above average, then milan and italy and the italy youth setup, would not have won too much with him in there, as the talent on those teams isn't that good to overcome him, especially considering that there are times in which every attack seems to flow through him first.
as for playing well in big games, well the world cup he came up big quite a few times, and also various champions league and league matches, but he doesn't score tons of goals, so it is hard to point and say well in 2004, december 6, etc. you just have to watch him

plus for him to be vastly overrated, he would have to be winning or nearly winning fifa wpoty or ballon d'or and be in almost everyone's best xi, but that is not the case, so for him to be vastly overrated, he would have to be quite average indeed. i just strongly disagree.
i am on record that he is, in my opinion, the best dlpm in the world right now.
cheers

[Teso Dos Bichos]

This would appear to say different.

http://boards.rivals.net/default.asp?sid=912&p=16&style=1&forumId=6537&action=1&replytoid=2118088539

No, it does not.

[dor02]

Mebbe, but I still find it more interesting than a "whose better, Lampard or Gerrard" debate. (I still think Pirlo's massively over-rated mind).Then you clearly didn't watch any of Italy's World Cup matches last year. If you did, you must have been pissed on beer. ;)

[United Pumps]

Sizzling, jpick.

[Seaside Mafia]

No, it does not.

Does

*puts fingers in ears and starts singing*

[Seaside Mafia]

don't know much about this wes guy to be honest, but i do know about pirlo, so i will address that.

i am guessing that crab combined with the earlier beckham reference (I know you're not saying that pirlo plays like beckham exactly but that they are similar in one key way), you mean that in your estimation, he is good at free kicks and other than that, has one great skill or so (beckham it is crossing the ball from the right, pirlo would be his long passing a la albertini).
well in 2004, december 6, etc. you just have to watch him

plus for him to be vastly overrated, he would have to be winning or nearly winning fifa wpoty or ballon d'or and be in almost everyone's best xi, but that is not the case, so for him to be vastly overrated, he would have to be quite average indeed. i just strongly disagree.
i am on record that he is, in my opinion, the best dlpm in the world right now.
cheers

Hmmmm. I'm tempted to concede the point purely out of respect to your workrate and tenacity......................but I can't. I think that you summed it up in your last paragraph for me. I think that he is average. It's a gut feel based on the games that I've seen him play, and no doubt there are plenty of clips to YouTube that can show individual moments of excellence. However, someone could put together an outstanding compilation of Frank Lampard goals but it wouldn't convince me that he's a great player. Lampard is a good player in a good side but an average player in a poor side, and this is where I see Pirlo. To me great players are players who make all the difference when the chips are down, when things aren't going their way. When the going gets tough, Lampard disappears. When the going gets tough great players stand up, stand out, and make a difference. There are plenty of examples of the great players of the past doing this. These days you don't need to look much further than a player like Stephen Gerard to see the difference a great player can make in adversity. I don't see Pirlo in this class. I don't see him as the player that picks a team up through his own example and leads them on to great things.

Anyway, for my next trick - Thierry Henry, genius or flat-track bully?