Hier regiert der HSV thread 07/08 [R]

["Eisenfuß" Eilts]

This is life. Football players have the same rights every other worker does. People don't get pissed off when a businessman breaks a contract and moves for more money, but yet we somehow feel footballers don't have the same right to do so?

Sorry man. I don't get that.


They don´t have exactly the same rights as normal workers,
but i understand, what you mean.

I am not pissed, that players go for more money.
I am pissed about the way they do it.

[Alois12]

Der Fall van der Vaart – der HSV hat inzwischen sogar den Weltverband Fifa und die Deutsche Fußball Liga (DFL) eingeschaltet.

Laut Fifa-Statuten darf ein Profi durch einen Konkurrenz-Club nicht zur Vertragsauflösung bewegt werden.

HSV-Sportdirektor Beiersdorfer schickte sofort einen deutlichen Brief an den FC Valencia. Die Bemühungen um van der Vaart seien „unverzüglich“ einzustellen, da der Spieler nicht zum Verkauf stünde.

Kopien dieser Briefe wurden auch an die DFL und die Fifa gesandt. Sollten Valencia Verstöße nachgewiesen werden können, drohen dem Verein hohe Geldstrafen.

http://www.bild.t-online.de/BTO/sport/bundesliga/vereine/hsv/2007/08/17/sylvie/bedroht,geo=2334174.html

I don't think HSV should have gone that far. I think they should just let him go. But for the right price. :rolleyes:

[footyfan1]

http://www.bild.t-online.de/BTO/sport/bundesliga/vereine/hsv/2007/08/17/sylvie/bedroht,geo=2334174.html

I don't think HSV should have gone that far. I think they should just let him go. But for the right price. :rolleyes:

Exactly. I think HSV are going to shoot themselves on this. What does it say to the other players that they are trying so hard to force van der Vaart to stay instead of selling him and moving on?

If I were on this team, I would think that the club management believes we can't win without this guy and in turn, they must think I suck.

I'd sell vdV and tell the others to show the fans that they don't need this bastard.

[footyfan1]

They don´t have exactly the same rights as normal workers,
but i understand, what you mean.

I am not pissed, that players go for more money.
I am pissed about the way they do it.


I think we get pissed because it's public and we have an emotional stake in the clubs these players screw.

I guess I've just gotten to used to it. It's just business to me. BAD BUSINESS, but business nonetheless.

I used to get mad back when it was just Bayern stealing players from clubs this way. But now, I can't even hate on them for it because this is the DFB/DFL's fault.

In Germany, if they had just PUNISHED Bayern back when they were doing it instead of letting Bayern go when they got caught and making it legal for everyone to do it once Bayern was caught too many times, this would not be happening in the Bundesliga.

[Duncan Idaho]

Exactly. I think HSV are going to shoot themselves on this. What does it say to the other players that they are trying so hard to force van der Vaart to stay instead of selling him and moving on?

If I were on this team, I would think that the club management believes we can't win without this guy and in turn, they must think I suck.

I'd sell vdV and tell the others to show the fans that they don't need this bastard.


I think they are in a situation where it doesn't matter if they shoot themselves in the leg since they are already standing more than knee-deep in the swamp. Regarding their miserable position they should go even further with banning vdV from the team and reserving him at spot at the stand for the whole season. Maybe such a hard measure can make Valencia raising their offer because of sympathy for vdV's situation. This measure would also prevent vdV from getting seriously injured and therefore raise the likelihood for a better offer next year

[footyfan1]

I think they are in a situation where it doesn't matter if they shoot themselves in the leg since they are already standing more than knee-deep in the swamp. Regarding their miserable position they should go even further with banning vdV from the team and reserving him at spot at the stand for the whole season. Maybe such a hard measure can make Valencia raising their offer because of sympathy for vdV's situation. This measure would also prevent vdV from getting seriously injured and therefore raise the likelihood for a better offer next year


DI, not playing the guy isn't going to raise his stock. On the contrary. I think that tells everyone that you want to get rid of him even more and that is not going to get anyone to raise their offer.

At least by the way the press is presenting the situation to us, HSV are just bitching and moaning instead of taking proper action.

I know how it is to have your club management thinking they are dependent on one player. We had it in Dortmund with Rosicky. Management lost about 10M on him because they were afraid to sell him when his stock was the highest.

This isn't going to get better for HSV. If they force to player to stay, I think he will make them wish they had sold him.

If they sell him, Valencia aren't going too much higher on their offer because instead of just dealing with them, HSV went running to the league and UEFA. "Make them leave us alone!"

Just like little bitches. Handle it yourselves! Tell Valencia to f#ck off and tell vdV to shut the f#ck up and play or it will cost him a lot of money! Don't go running to the league and UEFA, who won't do anything anyhow!

It's like the bully on the playground who picks on the little kid in glasses. The bully smacks the kid, the kid goes running to the teacher, the teacher punishes the bully and then the bully kicks the kid's ass even more after school.

Don't think if HSV forces van der Vaart to stay, it won't cost them in the long run.

Clubs will remember this when the bidding for him starts next year. And then they will also be able to hang that 1.5M "get out clause" after the next season over HSV's heads.....

Shit. I'm never going to say they should take 14M, but it is close to three times what they paid for van der Vaart.

It's just nowhere near his true market value.......

[BayernWake]

Great metaphor footyfan. Give the bully your milk money or stand up to him. But don't go to the teacher about it.

I say sell him ASAP. Rid yourselves of the whiny, injury-prone distraction.

[Duncan Idaho]

bad idea ;)

footy, do you think benching vdV will lower his value when HSV is playing a bad season? I honestly doubt that, many will think when vdV plays HSV is instantly at least a whole class better as anyone can asses that there are no sporting reason for not letting him play.

However, with more clubs in the transfer market next like the "moneysh*****" PL clubs it should be possible to get a better return on investment for vdV then than now. With his age and potential he must be attractive to more clubs than just one. The point here is after one year benchend vdV will go anywhere just for the sae of leaving HSV, whereas he now exclusively wants to Valencia, which is in return the main reason why Valencia doesn't to up their initial offer. They play on time and bet on a HSV caveing in

[benztown]

If I was Hamburg, I wouldn't sell vdV at the moment. They just need him too much. Just look at the way they play without him. They need the whole next year to find a replacement. His market value won't rise of course, but that would be compensated if Hamburg can reach a top 5 spot. Of course, even with vdV they're not assured to finish among the top 5, but it has to be the short term goal of every football club to be as good on the field as possible, not to make as much money as possible, because only that grants you survival in the long term.

[Hendrik]

http://www.as.com/recorte.php?id=LCO&xref=20070818dasdaiftb_10&type=Ies
http://www.as.com/recorte.php?id=LCO&xref=20070817dasdasftb_22&type=Ies



Un********ing believable.

[Japperant]

http://www.as.com/recorte.php?id=LCO&xref=20070818dasdaiftb_10&type=Ies
http://www.as.com/recorte.php?id=LCO&xref=20070817dasdasftb_22&type=Ies



Un********ing believable.

gzzz, everybody can see those pictures are edited...

[footyfan1]

bad idea ;)

footy, do you think benching vdV will lower his value when HSV is playing a bad season? I honestly doubt that, many will think when vdV plays HSV is instantly at least a whole class better as anyone can asses that there are no sporting reason for not letting him play.

However, with more clubs in the transfer market next like the "moneysh*****" PL clubs it should be possible to get a better return on investment for vdV then than now. With his age and potential he must be attractive to more clubs than just one. The point here is after one year benchend vdV will go anywhere just for the sae of leaving HSV, whereas he now exclusively wants to Valencia, which is in return the main reason why Valencia doesn't to up their initial offer. They play on time and bet on a HSV caveing in

We just think differently man. You assume other clubs will come running for van der Vaart. Newsflash. He isn't half as big in other places as he is here. The demand isn't as and won't be as great as you seem to think it will be. I'm not saying no one will come for him, but to think HSV will bank any more than 15-22M I think is a pipe dream.

[footyfan1]

gzzz, everybody can see those pictures are edited...

Not according to "kicker." According to them, he did it.

[footyfan1]

If I was Hamburg, I wouldn't sell vdV at the moment. They just need him too much.


And that's exactly what the f#ck is going to kill them! THAT TYPE OF THINKING!

What does that tell the rest of the team?

THE REST OF YOU ARE NOTHING WITHOUT THIS MAN!

They force him to stay. He doesn't give his best and his teammates resent the entire situation and management's total lack of confidence in THEM!

What do you think THAT will do to HSV's season?!


Just look at the way they play without him. They need the whole next year to find a replacement.


They have an "adequate" guy right now in Trochowski. If your scouting department is worth a shit, you can find a midfielder in South America during the winter break. Damn, don't you guys have any vision?

"benztown", you are a great poster. So let me ask you this question. And I'm not yelling at you afterwards. Just mad at the entire situation.

Here is the question.......

Did your team die last season when Mario Gomez was injured?

My answer:

NO, THE REST PICKED UP THE SLACK!

THAT'S WHAT THE F#CK HSV HAS TO DO!! BUT THE PLAYERS WON'T IF MANAGEMENT IS BASICALLY TELLING THEM, "YOU ARE NOTHING WITHOUT THIS MAN!"


His market value won't rise of course, but that would be compensated if Hamburg can reach a top 5 spot. Of course, even with vdV they're not assured to finish among the top 5, but it has to be the short term goal of every football club to be as good on the field as possible, not to make as much money as possible, because only that grants you survival in the long term.

And then there are cases where getting rid of a cancerous personality within your team just might be better than letting the cancer spread because it is talented. :rolleyes:

I think the rest of you severely underestimate the rest of the HSV players and the extra motivation doing it without van der Vaart can bring to this team.

I just love your defeatist attitudes......

[LebenslangGruenWeiss]

why did he sign a contract until 2010 with hamburg if it has always been his biggest wish to play in Spain?
VdV is a liar. He lied about his affection to HSV and the City. He lied about his recent injury. His wife is making up stories about feeling threatened.

HSV should keep him for now. Fine him for his behavior towards his employer. sue Valencia and/or Lerby for breaking FIFA rules.
And also they should not let him go for under 20 M.

[Hendrik]

gzzz, everybody can see those pictures are edited...
Check the gallery. http://www.as.com/galerias/galeriaAmpliada.html?idGaleria=4253

He also gave nice interview.

"I will fight to wear this jersey. I will do everything I can to get away from here."
"Hamburg's President doesn't let me speak with Valencia. I think it's a a matter of education."
"It doesn't matter if the fans boo me, in fact it makes things easier for me."


And then he wonder why his family isn't safe in Hamburg at the moment. :rolleyes: They should let him rot in the stands.

[footyfan1]

why did he sign a contract until 2010 with hamburg if it has always been his biggest wish to play in Spain?


Because it's a common practice. Players who know they are going to move on sign contracts that long so their clubs can get full value for them when they move on. That's why.

van der Vaart and his agent were smart. They had that 1.5M buyout clause put in for after next season just in case HSV tried to make them stay the length of the contract.

I think they just didn't count on Valencia coming this soon.

vdV only moved to HSV to showcase himself to the bigger clubs. If you think it was anything more than that, you're kidding yourself.


VdV is a liar. He lied about his affection to HSV and the City.

I don't think he "lied" about that at all. I think he just wants to go to Valencia more.


He lied about his recent injury. His wife is making up stories about feeling threatened.

That, I totally agree on!


HSV should keep him for now. Fine him for his behavior towards his employer. sue Valencia and/or Lerby for breaking FIFA rules.


They won't fine him. They are going to kiss his ass royally to try to get him to forget about Valencia and play his best. And that, my friends, just is not going to happen.

Sue Valencia and Lerby? Yeah, right. I think you're not thinking in reality here. Why didn't you guys sue Bayern and Klose's agent?

This is a sporting matter, not a civil matter and FIFA won't do anything. Why? Because too many have gotten away with this short of shit in the past.

I think HSV should sell, put this matter behind him and use vdV's betrayal as a spark to fire up the rest of the team.

I think that team is still a good one even without vdV. I think HSV management should let them prove it.......


And also they should not let him go for under 20 M.

I said that before, but with all that's happened since, they won't get 20M. 18 max I think. Which, when you look at it, would still be more than 3X what they paid for him.

[footyfan1]

Check the gallery. http://www.as.com/galerias/galeriaAmpliada.html?idGaleria=4253

He also gave nice interview.

"I will fight to wear this jersey. I will do everything I can to get away from here."
"Hamburg's President doesn't let me speak with Valencia. I think it's a a matter of education."
"It doesn't matter if the fans boo me, in fact it makes things easier for me."


And then he wonder why his family isn't safe in Hamburg at the moment. :rolleyes: They should let him rot in the stands.


No, they should sell his ass and use his betrayal as a rallying point for the rest of the team.

[Duncan Idaho]

We just think differently man. Obviously :p

I'm not saying no one will come for him, but to think HSV will bank any more than 15-22M I think is a pipe dream.

Where did I say they will get more then 22 Mio next year? I say they will get more then 14 Mio and since Valencia won't bid more for various reasons HSV must wait for next season. After today's vdV pictures it should be clear to anybody how Valencia wants to work out this situation. Valencia will in no case raise their initial offer, they set all their hopes and money in vdV breaking himself out of his contract via his behaviour.

to sum up my position:

The HSV has the duty for its own sake not to cave in and try to get the maximum out of him next year.

First, because the club is bigger than any player, therefore a player has not to expect "reward" (i.e in getting sold) in not honoring the club's circumstances (season already started with vdV being an integral part of their team) and the paper he has signed and he showed his commitment with (plus a clear exit clause next year).

Second, HSV negotiation position is fully undermined at the moment due to vdV behaviour and his stance of going only to Valencia. No time and no potential white knight as HSV savior, therefore HSV needs to block this dictated strategy for a better situation next year.

Third, benching or putting vdV for the whole season on the stand will prevent team morale drops and is lowering injury risks and therefore mimimizing price risks. As a consequence vdV will go anywhere just for leaving HSV and saving his career and image

Forth, Ajax will still get some amount of the transfer fee from Hamburg, which puts even more emphasize on reason 1, 2 and 3.


The only thing that should eb able to break this strategy is a significantly raised offer by Valencia, a second offer in the range of 18-20 Mio

[benztown]

And that's exactly what the f#ck is going to kill them! THAT TYPE OF THINKING!

What does that tell the rest of the team?

THE REST OF YOU ARE NOTHING WITHOUT THIS MAN!

They force him to stay. He doesn't give his best and his teammates resent the entire situation and management's total lack of confidence in THEM!

What do you think THAT will do to HSV's season?!





They have an "adequate" guy right now in Trochowski. If your scouting department is worth a shit, you can find a midfielder in South America during the winter break. Damn, don't you guys have any vision?

"benztown", you are a great poster. So let me ask you this question. And I'm not yelling at you afterwards. Just mad at the entire situation.

Here is the question.......

Did your team die last season when Mario Gomez was injured?

My answer:

NO, THE REST PICKED UP THE SLACK!

THAT'S WHAT THE F#CK HSV HAS TO DO!! BUT THE PLAYERS WON'T IF MANAGEMENT IS BASICALLY TELLING THEM, "YOU ARE NOTHING WITHOUT THIS MAN!"




And then there are cases where getting rid of a cancerous personality within your team just might be better than letting the cancer spread because it is talented. :rolleyes:

I think the rest of you severely underestimate the rest of the HSV players and the extra motivation doing it without van der Vaart can bring to this team.

I just love your defeatist attitudes......

Maybe you're right, but my sense of righteousness would be hurting if vdV would get his wish after all the crap that he pulled. That alone would be reason enough to not let him go. And if he turns out to be a rotten apple and rather hurt his team than help him, I'd rather put him into the amateur team than let him go. There he could be contemplating about how his behavior helped him and his career. After that, Hamburg could let him go in the winter or maybe next summer wherever he wants to, except Valencia.