Cheaters prosper

[NebraskaAddick]

West Ham are now staying up, due to a personnel move they made that was illegal, but saved their season. Oh yeah, they got a "record fine" for it, but subtract that from what they make in return for staying up, and it's still a huge payoff!!!! I guess it was all worth it.

And I'm not saying this in defense of Charlton, they would have gone down anyway, but Sheffield United I feel for.

[Hollow]

Your exactly right. Punish the new owner for what the old ones did on the way out, ONLY because they knew they were on the way out. They tried to pull a nasty sabotage job on the Hammers, and it didn't work. Your talking about punishing the players and the fans a lot more than the the owners. Sour grapes is sour grapes, no matter how much you try to spin it.

[lanman]

Your exactly right. Punish the new owner for what the old ones did on the way out, ONLY because they knew they were on the way out.

It didn't stop the players playing under the new ownership did it? West Ham broke the rules under one set of owners and under the new set, continued to play players whose ownership was illegal. If the new owners had come straight in and renegotiated the rights to Tevez and Mascherano then you would have a point, but that situation never arose.

Your talking about punishing the players and the fans a lot more than the the owners.

Were the players and fans of Juventus guilty of any offence when they were relegated? Were the players and fans of Middlesbrough guilty of any offence when they were deducted three points? What about the players and fans of Sheffield United?

[Hollow]

It didn't stop the players playing under the new ownership did it? West Ham broke the rules under one set of owners and under the new set, continued to play players whose ownership was illegal. If the new owners had come straight in and renegotiated the rights to Tevez and Mascherano then you would have a point, but that situation never arose.



Were the players and fans of Juventus guilty of any offence when they were relegated? Were the players and fans of Middlesbrough guilty of any offence when they were deducted three points? What about the players and fans of Sheffield United?

West Ham was bought partially with the understanding that the players that were there we theirs. There was no way for the new ownership to do something about the Tevez/Mascherano situation. You think Corinthians would have given the money back, or even had it to give back? You cant compare this to when other teams have done something comparable, because of the change in ownership. And to even think of bringing up Juventus, is beyond ludicrous. Paying off officials, they and the rest of the offenders should have permanently been barred from European competitions.

[juveeer]

Then why is it OK for Mascherano to play for Pool?

Anyway, I don't feel for Sheffield United. Their team totally collapsed over the last 10 games. Win ANY 1 of them and they are still up. They couldn't even beat Wigan on their home ground today.

OTH, the Hammers have been brilliant for the last 2 months and they were particularly brave today.

IMHO, if Sheffiled have any complaint it is with rafa Beneitez and Liverpool not putting in a professional effort against Fulham. THAT strikes far more at the "integrity" of the game than some technicalities on player registration.

Man U certainly didn't take that approach and the Hammers had to earn their victory today.

These things should be decided on the field not on the court room and the Hammers are staying up because of their play.

BTW, speaking of Juventus, I think what the Italian FA did was wrong for the same reason. The Scudetto should be decided on the field, not handed to someone for something that may have happened off it. If they want to take it away, fine, but it should be vacated, not handed to Inter.

Course Inter, if they had any pride, would never accept a trophy that they didn't earn, but we ARE talking about Inter here.

Congrats to the Hammers and the magnificent Carlito, "El Apache" Tevez. he is a perfect Prem player so hope he stays in the EPL somehwere.n Doubt if it is the Hammers.

[JimmyTheHoover]

...There was no way for the new ownership to do something about the Tevez/Mascherano situation...

So how exactly did the new ownership suddenly make Tevez' deal "legitimate" as soon as the FA started pressing them if there was no way for the new ownership to do anything?

West Ham were fielding "illegal" players, illegal in the sense that in playing the two Argentinians they were breaking The Premiership Rules and Regulations as the contracts including the 3rd party were not approved by the FAPL. If that was my club I would expect a points deduction no question and I could have no complaints. "Oh we didn't know the rules" or "Oh the old owners tried to stitch us up", those are the lamest excuses ever.

In the European Cup, UEFA Cup and old Cup Winners Cup competitions there have been similar cases of fielding illegal players, in every case each team has been forced to replay a game or been kicked out of the competition altogether. So how the hell WHU only got a fine is beyond comprehension.

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Then why is it OK for Mascherano to play for Pool?

Anyway, I don't feel for Sheffield United. Their team totally collapsed over the last 10 games. Win ANY 1 of them and they are still up. They couldn't even beat Wigan on their home ground today.

OTH, the Hammers have been brilliant for the last 2 months and they were particularly brave today.

IMHO, if Sheffiled have any complaint it is with rafa Beneitez and Liverpool not putting in a professional effort against Fulham. THAT strikes far more at the "integrity" of the game than some technicalities on player registration.

Man U certainly didn't take that approach and the Hammers had to earn their victory today.

These things should be decided on the field not on the court room and the Hammers are staying up because of their play.

BTW, speaking of Juventus, I think what the Italian FA did was wrong for the same reason. The Scudetto should be decided on the field, not handed to someone for something that may have happened off it. If they want to take it away, fine, but it should be vacated, not handed to Inter.

Course Inter, if they had any pride, would never accept a trophy that they didn't earn, but we ARE talking about Inter here.

Congrats to the Hammers and the magnificent Carlito, "El Apache" Tevez. he is a perfect Prem player so hope he stays in the EPL somehwere.n Doubt if it is the Hammers.

Well said mate, and Juve will be back, bigger n better in Serie A, where we belong!:mad: What a great season it is to be a Juve & Hammers fan:D

[Mirror Master]

Sour Grapes! How pathetic would it be to stay up on legal manueverings when your team didn't earn it on the field. Not sure I'd even want it if it was my side. Go out and earn promotion next year on the field the only place that it matters.

[Gliding7]

The logic is simple - had West Ham done NOTHING WRONG, they would not have got fined.

When they got fined, means only one thing - they had done something wrong.

This "something" is - fielding 2 illegal players on a series of matches.

So now it's only a question of what kind of punishment West Ham deserved.

If the FA believe having field 2 illegal players only worth a fine, yet no point deducted. They should not have thrown Bury out of FA Cup because they fielded ONE inegiliable player for ONE game. And punished them with cash instead.

Here it is clearly a DOUBLE standard.

And here is clearly probably the biggest CHEATING act of the Premiership history.

This is not sour grape as I ain't a Charlton nor Sheff Utd fan. Purely from a neutral's point of view. If something is clearly wrong for the world to see, you can't argue it and make it right.

[pookspur]

... What a great season it is to be a Juve & Hammers fan:D

you must be very proud.

[Mirror Master]

It's not cheating. Buying off refs and results would be cheating. Any mistakes that were made with contracts are a finacial matter not an on the field one and so a finacial punishment is logical and a suitable punishment. We paid the fine and outperformed the other bottom of the table teams down the stretch. West Ham showed they still belong in the Premeirship on the field the only place it should be decided.

[lanman]

It's not cheating.

They knowingly broke a rule having been informed of that rule by the Premier League when they first approached them about signing the players. They then lied about it. That is cheating.

[DeadlyAkkuret]

you must be very proud.

I am, i love my football clubs. A few tainted years for Juve doesn't take away their very successful history, just like a couple of unfortunate mistakes doesn't take anything from the history of West Ham. You stick with your teams through everything, that's what supporters do.

[Derrida]

A few things that infuriate me:

"West Ham has been playing awesome and Sheffield United/Wigan have been playing like crap, so West Ham deserves to stay up"

What about the first 5 months of the season when West Ham looked like the worst team in the Premiership by far? Why doesn't that matter? You accumulate points over the whole season, not just for the last month. Why form at the end of the season should determine who "deserves" to stay up is beyond me.

"You're just angry your team wasn't good enough to stay up."

First, I have no affiliation with Sheffield United, Wigan, or Charlton, and while I do have some interest in Fulham, it's just because they've got some Americans, and I'd like to see them do well. I have no particular interest in Sheffield staying up, that's for sure.

"How pathetic would it be to stay up on legal manueverings when your team didn't earn it on the field."

How pathetic would it be to stay up on financial maneuverings that let you get a player who saved you when the team you ought to have been playing couldn't earn it on the field?

"It's a new ownership."

This one just takes the cake. So if a company pollutes the water and gives people cancer, there's no legal recourse if new management takes over?

They bought the club, which means they take control over all the assets *and* losses. If you buy a club and it has to go into administration, you can't avoid the points deduction because the previous owners made all the terrible decisions. Beyond that, they knowingly kept running Tevez out there despite having hold of his contract which clearly violated the rules. They could very well have done something - they could have benched him, or magically "fixed" the contract like they finally did in April.

"If they wanted to stay up, they should have played better."

Not every team is Man U or Arsenal, or even Spurs or Newcastle. It's HARD to win games in the Premiership, and the "small clubs" have to do everything they can to accumulate enough points to stay up. They fought long and hard and did just enough to beat two teams who played fairly and one team (absent cheating). Sure they could have escaped by doing better, but it's not like it's easy. They did *well enough* and are now being punished because they weren't clever enough to cheat, too.

Finally, if West Ham was so terrible all year that a measly 3-point penalty would have been enough to relegate them, maybe THEY should have played better and thus made the whole argument moot. The arrogance coming from fans of a club who were one stiff backbone away from getting relegated themselves is astonishing here.

[ATL_Iron]

If the FA believe having field 2 illegal players only worth a fine, yet no point deducted. They should not have thrown Bury out of FA Cup because they fielded ONE inegiliable player for ONE game. And punished them with cash instead.



Why don't you spend some time and work out the parties that are involved in this before commenting on it? :rolleyes:

[superdave]

The fact that Juve fans are defending West Ham is perhaps the most convincing argument that the Hammers should get relegated that I can think of.

[DeadlyAkkuret]

The fact that Juve fans are defending West Ham is perhaps the most convincing argument that the Hammers should get relegated that I can think of.

That's a pretty weak point you're trying to make. How about giving us a real arguement instead of using sarcastic inuendo to make a point?

[Hollow]

"It's a new ownership."

This one just takes the cake. So if a company pollutes the water and gives people cancer, there's no legal recourse if new management takes over?

They bought the club, which means they take control over all the assets *and* losses. If you buy a club and it has to go into administration, you can't avoid the points deduction because the previous owners made all the terrible decisions. Beyond that, they knowingly kept running Tevez out there despite having hold of his contract which clearly violated the rules. They could very well have done something - they could have benched him, or magically "fixed" the contract like they finally did in April.

Just how low does your IQ have to be, to compare a football contract with pollution that gives people cancer? Are you that bitter that you have to go that low? You should be a Wigan fan then, right along with there stupid owner that wants to file a lawsuit over it.

And of course they kept running Tevez out. They were paying him thousands of pounds a week, damn right they are going to play him. All this speculation over a "magical" fix of the contract; maybe it took that long just to get the whole damn thing straightened out the way the FA wanted it, WITH the FA being involved. I would not be surprised at all if they negotiated with the FA over what exactly they wanted done in exchange for a reasonable penalty.

[Gliding7]

I am, i love my football clubs. A few tainted years for Juve doesn't take away their very successful history, just like a couple of unfortunate mistakes doesn't take anything from the history of West Ham. You stick with your teams through everything, that's what supporters do.

Though I believe West Ham should get deducted point, I respect this attitude of you as a supporter. You stick with ur teams through everything. So truth. Not every fan has this attitude these days, especially among the big clubs.

[Bridgeiron]

West Ham deserve there place in the Prem.
If you all want to watch the cloggers of Sheff Utd then tune in to the Championship next season.
Tevez, stuff of Legend.