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Naughty by Nature
07 May 2007, 09:49 PM
I find this article by Sid Lowe pretty interresting. Its about Jorde Valdano's veiws on Chelsea & Liverpool.

The former Real Madrid coach and World Cup winner Jorge Valdano has attacked Rafael Benítez and Jose Mourinho, insisting that they are ushering in a bleak future for football and likening the Champions League semi-final between Liverpool and Chelsea to "a shit hanging from a stick".

The Argentinian, who scored in the 1986 World Cup final and has a respected reputation as a football intellectual, claimed that Mourinho and Benítez mistrust talent because of their own failure to make it as players and said their approach is bad news for the game.

Writing in Spain's best-selling newspaper, Marca, Valdano insisted: "Football is made up of subjective feeling, of suggestion - and, in that, Anfield is unbeatable. Put a shit hanging from a stick in the middle of this passionate, crazy stadium and there are people who will tell you it's a work of art. It's not: it's a shit hanging from a stick.

"Chelsea and Liverpool are the clearest, most exaggerated example of the way football is going: very intense, very collective, very tactical, very physical, and very direct," he added. "But, a short pass? Noooo. A feint? Noooo. A change of pace? Noooo. A one-two? A nutmeg? A backheel? Don't be ridiculous. None of that. The extreme control and seriousness with which both teams played the semi-final neutralised any creative licence, any moments of exquisite skill.

"If Didier Drogba was the best player in the first match it was purely because he was the one who ran the fastest, jumped the highest and crashed into people the hardest. Such extreme intensity wipes away talent, even leaving a player of Joe Cole's class disoriented. If football is going the way Chelsea and Liverpool are taking it, we had better be ready to wave goodbye to any expression of the cleverness and talent we have enjoyed for a century."

Valdano explained why Benítez and Mourinho were to blame for the demise of flair and creativity. "The lives of Mourinho and Benítez have crossed in a world that is ever more scrutinised and exposed by the media, which is why they look at each other with such distrust," he wrote, "but they have two things in common: a previously denied, hitherto unsatisfied hunger for glory, and a desire to have everything under control.

"Both of those things stem from one key factor: neither Mourinho nor Benítez made it as a player. That has made them channel all their vanity into coaching. Those who did not have the talent to make it as players do not believe in the talent of players, they do not believe in the ability to improvise in order to win football matches. In short, Benítez and Mourinho are exactly the kind of coaches that Benítez and Mourinho would have needed to have made it as players."

4x4s
07 May 2007, 09:54 PM
He has a point.I fell asleep in today's Charlton - Tottenham match, and Tottenham is supposed to be one of the 'attacking' squads of the Premier League.

azriel
08 May 2007, 03:05 AM
I always admired Valdanos ways with words.

Hes got a very good point. And yes, shit hanging from a brick pretty much describes boringpool.

RealMadGunner
08 May 2007, 04:08 AM
I get scared when a LPool game is on .. And maybe Bolton too ..

blanc
08 May 2007, 08:40 AM
Valdano dominatiion :o

judge10
08 May 2007, 11:39 AM
Valdano insisted: "Football is made up of subjective feeling, of suggestion.."

"Chelsea and Liverpool are the clearest, most exaggerated example of the way football is going: very intense, very collective, very tactical, very physical, and very direct," he added. "But, a short pass? Noooo. A feint? Noooo. A change of pace? Noooo. A one-two? A nutmeg? A backheel? Don't be ridiculous. None of that. The extreme control and seriousness with which both teams played the semi-final neutralised any creative licence, any moments of exquisite skill.


"Both of those things stem from one key factor: neither Mourinho nor Benítez made it as a player. That has made them channel all their vanity into coaching. Those who did not have the talent to make it as players do not believe in the talent of players, they do not believe in the ability to improvise in order to win football matches. In short, Benítez and Mourinho are exactly the kind of coaches that Benítez and Mourinho would have needed to have made it as players."
Firstly, the only way to beat sh!t football in on the pitch - not by whinging about those who play the game destructively. That is the principle reason why most Real Madrid fans dislike Capello, because Real Madrid should never play negative football and be a symbol to other clubs to succeed in the right way, granted. But to demand other clubs to do the same is not realistic. Teams have played defensively for decades. Mourinho is nothing new.

Secondly, if he wants a nutmeg or a backheel then it better be for the benefit of the team else he should watch jugglers perform at a circus. What makes a backheel great is not simply the action but the context. Liverpool won the game being destructive so it is only Chelsea who should consider a change of plan.

If teams playing attractive expressive football never win another trophy then there is no value to their game and no team should play it. Teams like Liverpool raise the level of competition in football to demand more from everyone else. If Jamie Carragher can win the European Cup with no talent but buckets of determination then surely Sergio Ramos with his talent can match Carragher's determination, commitment, drive, fitness and discipline and in doing so beat him.

4x4s
08 May 2007, 12:12 PM
If teams playing attractive expressive football never win another trophy then there is no value to their game and no team should play it. Teams like Liverpool raise the level of competition in football to demand more from everyone else.

Less and less people will watch football and waste their free time on something else.

Think of 8 teams, 8 matches of "Chelsea - Liverpool" football in the CL.3 consecutive years of that, and half the people currently watching the games will start watching cricket, or table tennis.The viewers will be Club supporters only, the rest will just not sit around to get bored for 90 minutes.

judge10
08 May 2007, 12:43 PM
Less and less people will watch football and waste their free time on something else.

Think of 8 teams, 8 matches of "Chelsea - Liverpool" football in the CL.3 consecutive years of that, and half the people currently watching the games will start watching cricket, or table tennis.The viewers will be Club supporters only, the rest will just not sit around to get bored for 90 minutes.
That is true for leagues games, less so for European Cup games. But the truth is the Rafa Benitez is charged with creating a winning team, not filling the stadium. As Chelsea have shown, being successful can generate a full stadium regardless of the quality of the spectacle. It can even make people think that the "sh!t on a stick" they are watching is, indeed, good football - as Valdano rightly points out.

Complaining people are 'just trying to win' in a competition is ridiculous. It is the argument of a loser. Valdano never brought the ball into the corners, no? He kept trying to attack even when 1-0 up with ten men, he kept going for the second? :rolleyes: Everyone is trying to win and, as usual, the most effective way is the ugliest.

The beauty of pieces of play is in their effectiveness. Had Maradona missed the goal at the end of his dribble it would've been forgotten. Stepovers are not in themselves beautiful. When Cristiano Ronaldo does 5 stepovers, nobody cheers in amazement. It's the stepover that beats his man that gets the cheer - that is the whole point of a stepover! So what I would say is that the best players in the world must come up with better tricks, must become stronger, must concentrate more, must make more clever runs etc because Liverpool are stronger than before.

Barca got dumped out because guys like Ronaldinho and Deco lost motivation this season and were unable to raise their game. If Milan are to win the final they will need one man to perform more than anyone else - their most talented. The best footballers are still the most talented, it's no bad thing that the less talented work harder to compensate - it raises the level of the game. IMO, it was a shame Man Utd had those injuries and got knocked out because they are the best team in Europe and built on attack.

4x4s
08 May 2007, 12:58 PM
That is true for leagues games, less so for European Cup games. But the truth is the Rafa Benitez is charged with creating a winning team, not filling the stadium. As Chelsea have shown, being successful can generate a full stadium regardless of the quality of the spectacle. It can even make people think that the "sh!t on a stick" they are watching is, indeed, good football - as Valdano rightly points out.

Chelsea has problems selling out their stadium in 6 out of 10 Champions League games, never mind the League games.

Liverpool fans would fill their stadium even if the would be playing League 1 football, so Valdano is right saying that people that go to Anfield don't care what they see, they just go there by default, even if they would lose every game 0-4 Anfield would be sold out.

judge10
08 May 2007, 01:54 PM
Chelsea has problems selling out their stadium in 6 out of 10 Champions League games, never mind the League games.

Liverpool fans would fill their stadium even if the would be playing League 1 football, so Valdano is right saying that people that go to Anfield don't care what they see, they just go there by default, even if they would lose every game 0-4 Anfield would be sold out.
Yeah, but they were never a big team and I would imagine their attendances are still up from the times when they were nobodies. It's not like the sh!t football has driven anyone away.

Liverpool are a very big club with a big fan base and a relatively small stadium, only 45,000 or so. English football is quite well attended in general.

LosMerengues89
15 May 2007, 08:54 AM
Well Benitez finally has a reply to Valdano.

LINK (http://www.goal.com/en/articolo.aspx?contenutoid=304065)

Thoughts?

lad1509
15 May 2007, 04:17 PM
well, I have to side with Benitez on this one, he was hired to win trophies, I am sure *if* when they hired him they asked him to "play beautiful football with backheels, cartwheels and breakdancing" and not to worry about winning at all, he would have done so. the fact is they hired him and gave him a goal with a budget, the goal is to WIN as many trophies as possible with the provided budget, period.

also, liverpool is no where near as boring as all the teams in the itallian league... now that's deadly boring.

and don't forget, liverpool played in what's considered the most exciting final in the champions league history.

blanc
18 May 2007, 11:52 AM
Liverpool only played in the Champion's League Final because Milan let them .. HONEST!! :p:o:p

(I kid I kid, don't kill me Pool supporters .. but Liverpool ARE boring in the main)