The Case for Aleksandr Hleb

[Val1]

This post by Gooner for Life warrants a response.

Hleb, ya we have discussed this guy a lot. He needs to go. Plain as that. He doesnt fit into our system at all. He was never a wide man which is what we need and is what we try to play him as and he cant score goals for us. Cesc is our offensive man in the middle and its as simple as that for me. We need wide players who can score goals! Hleb doesnt fit this definition and hes not gonna play in the middle so what the f*ck is he doing at our club? Anyone who comes up with a solid answer to these questions i will paypal your a*s $10 and lunch is on me.

For a project that I've been working on, I've been tracking the time on ball and total number of possessions for various players. Today I looked at Cesc. For the purposes of possession, I tallied the number of times Cesc had the ball and and was able to do something with it. I did not include the free kicks he took and tackles where he might have touched the ball but didn't really impact the play at all. I missed the opening two minutes of the game. There was a minute of extra time at the end of the first half and four at the end of the second half, so the game was 95 minutes.

In the first half, Cesc has 20 possessions and was on ball for 34 seconds for an average of 1.7 seconds per possession. By the time Hleb came on in the 59th minute, Cesc had 29 touches for 43 seconds of possesion, or a cumulative possesion of 1.48 seconds per possession.

I've tracked this for a dozen on so games and a possession midfielder can average 2 - 3 seconds per possession.

When Hleb came on for the last 36 minutes of the game, Cesc had 22 possessions for 48 seconds, or an average of 2.2 seconds per possession. In other words, 52% of Cesc's possession came in roughly the last third of the game, the time that Hleb was in.

Think back and look in your mind's eye to today's game, and every run that Cesc had where he was moving with the ball, in space, or getting shots, was after Hleb had come in. Cesc was a bystander in the first half, and I think the space he was able to create was a direct result of the times he got the ball from Hleb.

Now I did not chart who Cesc received the ball from, and I think I'll go back to the first Arsenal v Chelsea game to see where he gets the ball from, but I suspect that a lion's share comes from Hleb. Actually, the person who didn't pass to Cesc today was Gilberto. I know he didn't pass to Cesc in the first half, and maybe only once or twice in the second half, but as I said, I wasn't watching that.

I think it is fair to say that this is Cesc's team now, and I don't think Henry's return next year will change that. We could debate this point, but Cesc is not 20 while Henry is reaching the age where he's going to be slowing down and we're going to see more 15 goal seasons than we will 25 goal seasons. If we're going to build our team around Cesc, then Hleb is the man who can spring him into space so he can work his magic. I share similar frustrations with Hleb, as you do, Gooner For Life, but I don't see him going anywhere.

So, is that good enough for the $10???

[zonametro]

Its very apparent you put a lot of work into this and i don't doubt that Hleb is very good at keeping the flow of the game and opening up the attack the only thing that frustrates me is he wont shoot the ball. today he was on a 4 on 3 attack and had the ball inside the box with no defender on him and pass up a shot to feed the ball to Cesc in traffic and the pass didnt reach Cesc and I said to myself Pires would have buried that and we would have had 3 points today. I also think back to the first Chelsea match when in the final minutes the ball was about at the penalty spot and he ran on to it and pulled a Beckham and put it 40 rows into the stand.

Hleb can creat a lot of chances but sometimes he just needs to be a little more selfish and a little more accurate with his chances.

[Shibby13]

Its very apparent you put a lot of work into this and i don't doubt that Hleb is very good at keeping the flow of the game and opening up the attack the only thing that frustrates me is he wont shoot the ball. today he was on a 4 on 3 attack and had the ball inside the box with no defender on him and pass up a shot to feed the ball to Cesc in traffic and the pass didnt reach Cesc and I said to myself Pires would have buried that and we would have had 3 points today. I also think back to the first Chelsea match when in the final minutes the ball was about at the penalty spot and he ran on to it and pulled a Beckham and put it 40 rows into the stand.

Hleb can creat a lot of chances but sometimes he just needs to be a little more selfish and a little more accurate with his chances.

You must not have watched the full 95 minutes then as he had the last chance of the game with his left foot that Cech could not handle. It was a very powerful shot. I know during the course of the season he has been too unselfish at times but I think he is starting to realize he needs to shoot more.

[ShiftyPig]

Honestly... I rate Hleb even behind Denilson, as I'd rather see him mature than see move after move killed off by dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, cut it back to nobody.

Hlab can dribble around someone in a phone booth, but his end product is horrific - poor passes and abysmal shooting.

Going into next year we'll have Cesc, Diaby, Rosicky, Denilson, Freddie all competeing for attack-minded midfield positions. Add to that the possibility of Walcott playing on the wing, a return by Reyes, playing RvP on the wing to make room for an Henry-Adebayor front, or a new purchase.... and I really don't see where Hleb fits into the squad in a meaningful way.

The idea of having Hleb around as a substitute so he can grab a late goal (yeah, right) or help defend a narrow lead (PSV match anyone?) is laughable.

[Gooner_for_Life]

This post by Gooner for Life warrants a response.



For a project that I've been working on, I've been tracking the time on ball and total number of possessions for various players. Today I looked at Cesc. For the purposes of possession, I tallied the number of times Cesc had the ball and and was able to do something with it. I did not include the free kicks he took and tackles where he might have touched the ball but didn't really impact the play at all. I missed the opening two minutes of the game. There was a minute of extra time at the end of the first half and four at the end of the second half, so the game was 95 minutes.

In the first half, Cesc has 20 possessions and was on ball for 34 seconds for an average of 1.7 seconds per possession. By the time Hleb came on in the 59th minute, Cesc had 29 touches for 43 seconds of possesion, or a cumulative possesion of 1.48 seconds per possession.

I've tracked this for a dozen on so games and a possession midfielder can average 2 - 3 seconds per possession.

When Hleb came on for the last 36 minutes of the game, Cesc had 22 possessions for 48 seconds, or an average of 2.2 seconds per possession. In other words, 52% of Cesc's possession came in roughly the last third of the game, the time that Hleb was in.

Think back and look in your mind's eye to today's game, and every run that Cesc had where he was moving with the ball, in space, or getting shots, was after Hleb had come in. Cesc was a bystander in the first half, and I think the space he was able to create was a direct result of the times he got the ball from Hleb.

Now I did not chart who Cesc received the ball from, and I think I'll go back to the first Arsenal v Chelsea game to see where he gets the ball from, but I suspect that a lion's share comes from Hleb. Actually, the person who didn't pass to Cesc today was Gilberto. I know he didn't pass to Cesc in the first half, and maybe only once or twice in the second half, but as I said, I wasn't watching that.

I think it is fair to say that this is Cesc's team now, and I don't think Henry's return next year will change that. We could debate this point, but Cesc is not 20 while Henry is reaching the age where he's going to be slowing down and we're going to see more 15 goal seasons than we will 25 goal seasons. If we're going to build our team around Cesc, then Hleb is the man who can spring him into space so he can work his magic. I share similar frustrations with Hleb, as you do, Gooner For Life, but I don't see him going anywhere.

So, is that good enough for the $10???

Ok i want to congratulate you on working hard as this must have taken some time to compile these stats and so forth. But this really has nothing to do with Hleb and or highlighting his inadequacies as a player. I could stand out there and pass the ball to Cesc but to me this isnt something that Hleb should be doing. Anyone else can pass the ball to Cesc but why should a wide man be passing the ball into the middle, it really should be the other way around, especially when building an attack.

Looking at this from a different perspective, Hleb is now 26 and i dont really see him getting any better. In fact i could see us brining in someone and Hleb being immediately relegated to squad player instead of starter. Hes not that great of a starter but would be a great squad player but i could also see us brining through someone younger who could be just as good of a squad player if not better. Also think about it, if this scenario does play out then we are looking at Hleb being 28 or 29 and we sell him off for pennies.

Editing and adding onto this ShiftyPig makes some good points along these lines that i hadnt really thought of. Hleb may find himself moving down the pecking order sooner rather then later.

[bandwagongooner]

This is an early "sky is falling" point, but if the team is being built around Cesc, then he'd better start creating more GOALS, not just chances but goals. I think it should start with him being more decisive in and around the box. For all his talent and skill, Cesc is the poster child for the "passing the ball into the goal" attitude that the team displays.

[RealMadGunner]

I was watching the Chelsea game and i thought we missesd Hleb's ability to keep possession .. Our game improved when he came on .. Just my thought ..

[Shibby13]

I was watching the Chelsea game and i thought we missesd Hleb's ability to keep possession .. Our game improved when he came on .. Just my thought ..

Agreed

[undefeatedarsenal]

I've often thought that Hleb and Cesc play this little, Continental 2-man game very well. I'm no fan of Hleb per se, but he is the perfect foil for Cesc. So if you don't like Hleb, maybe we should just sell Cesc and go with a midfield of Denilson and Diaby with Rosicky and Walcott out wide. Maybe go three defenders in back with Gilberto in front of them, so we'd play a 3-5-2 until Denilson is ready to take on full DM responsibilities.

[michaec]

Hlab can dribble around someone in a phone booth, but his end product is horrific - poor passes and abysmal shooting.The only thing that matters. Stats are just stats, if he had crap stats and set up or scored goals I'd be happy. He does neither consistently and for that reason should be sold, he's had long enough to get it right.

[thebigman]

yep, hleb isnt very good imo

good dribbler untill he runs into oppositions players and loses possession 100 times a game

his passing has got worse too and his final ball is terrible

[footykid]

yep, hleb isnt very good imo

good dribbler untill he runs into oppositions players and loses possession 100 times a game

his passing has got worse too and his final ball is terrible

I don't know which Hleb you've been watching but Hleb himself very rarely loses possession, Eboue on the other hand the player Hleb passes to most often does...maybe people are just passing the buck.

In fact Hleb's ability to keep possession and make the simple backwards pass has killed off games for us that we wouldn't or couldn't score the goal that would have killed the game anyway.

I suppose is a trade off we're not sure of Hleb's ability to pass into the strikers feet because for two seasons running we've been unable to play with 2 proper strikers. Hleb himself has never had more than 5 or 6 goals a season as a pro, so thats not an option.

But, he brings better ball retention that any player in the top 4, I would have said Alonso but he's been proper shit this season. If you think Hleb loses possession too much you'd shot yourself if we had a real winger.

[ibby]

This post by Gooner for Life warrants a response.



For a project that I've been working on, I've been tracking the time on ball and total number of possessions for various players. Today I looked at Cesc. For the purposes of possession, I tallied the number of times Cesc had the ball and and was able to do something with it. I did not include the free kicks he took and tackles where he might have touched the ball but didn't really impact the play at all. I missed the opening two minutes of the game. There was a minute of extra time at the end of the first half and four at the end of the second half, so the game was 95 minutes.

In the first half, Cesc has 20 possessions and was on ball for 34 seconds for an average of 1.7 seconds per possession. By the time Hleb came on in the 59th minute, Cesc had 29 touches for 43 seconds of possesion, or a cumulative possesion of 1.48 seconds per possession.

I've tracked this for a dozen on so games and a possession midfielder can average 2 - 3 seconds per possession.

When Hleb came on for the last 36 minutes of the game, Cesc had 22 possessions for 48 seconds, or an average of 2.2 seconds per possession. In other words, 52% of Cesc's possession came in roughly the last third of the game, the time that Hleb was in.

Think back and look in your mind's eye to today's game, and every run that Cesc had where he was moving with the ball, in space, or getting shots, was after Hleb had come in. Cesc was a bystander in the first half, and I think the space he was able to create was a direct result of the times he got the ball from Hleb.

Now I did not chart who Cesc received the ball from, and I think I'll go back to the first Arsenal v Chelsea game to see where he gets the ball from, but I suspect that a lion's share comes from Hleb. Actually, the person who didn't pass to Cesc today was Gilberto. I know he didn't pass to Cesc in the first half, and maybe only once or twice in the second half, but as I said, I wasn't watching that.

I think it is fair to say that this is Cesc's team now, and I don't think Henry's return next year will change that. We could debate this point, but Cesc is not 20 while Henry is reaching the age where he's going to be slowing down and we're going to see more 15 goal seasons than we will 25 goal seasons. If we're going to build our team around Cesc, then Hleb is the man who can spring him into space so he can work his magic. I share similar frustrations with Hleb, as you do, Gooner For Life, but I don't see him going anywhere.

So, is that good enough for the $10???

Trust me, Henry's and more importantly van Persie's return next season will impact our season massively next season.

Wenger stated that we create the most chances in the league, if that is ture than it obviously isn't our style of football but the people we have had upfront this year, I believe 100% that if the Henry of last season played this season we would have won the league this year. Henry also stated that this season we have only desverved to lose to games which were the games against Liverpool and Bolton and for them to games Henry & Van Persie weren't playing.

Next season I can see us winning the title, but we need one good signing, and winger perhaps as then we can rotate. These two season have been learning curves, I feel next season is the most important season Wenger will have, he will see how far he can take the side and if it is billed it be what it can be.

[thebigman]

u seriously think hleb retains possession top 5 in the prem?

u mental?

[footykid]

Name one player on Pool Chelsea ManU or even Arsenal.

[tdotgooner]

I think Hleb is exactly the type of player we need if we're ever going to succeed in Europe. He keeps possession, links up play, slow, patient etc etc. He's also very technically gifted. So if we could find some way to get another winger to replace him for the prem games and use some kind of rotation then we should be alright.

[Val1]

I could stand out there and pass the ball to Cesc but to me this isnt something that Hleb should be doing. Anyone else can pass the ball to Cesc but why should a wide man be passing the ball into the middle, it really should be the other way around, especially when building an attack.

I think not.

I went back and charted the first Chelsea game (which is the only game I have on DVD). I looked at the number of possessions that Cesc had, and who exactly passed him the ball. I also looked at the number of turnovers. For good measure, I did similar for Hleb, tallying the number of his possessions and turnovers as well.

For the record, this was a 96 minute game (2+ minutes in the first half, and 4 minutes stoppage time in the second half). The game was 1-1 with Falmini scoring the Arsenal goal after a very nice 1-2-3-4 with that man, Hleb.

Cesc had 48 possessions (28 in the first half). He lost possesion 13 of those times. He received 2 passes from Gilberto, 2 from Flamini, 4 from van Persie, 2 from Adebayor, 3 from Eboue, 1 from Djouro, 1 from Senderos, 1 from Lehmann, 2 from Clichy, and 15 from Hleb. (The rest of his possessions came from tackles, free balls he ran onto or received from throw-ins, free kicks, etc).

15 passes from Hleb, the rest of the team accounted for 18 intentional balls to him.

As for Hleb, he had 64 possessions (33 at the half) and lost possession 10 times. I was fairly strict by my definition of turnover to include losing the ball on the dribble, getting a head on the ball from a Jens Lehmann goal kick only to direct the ball to a Chelsea player, playing a good attacking through ball only to have it cut out, to digging out a poorly passed ball and getting to it but not in position to do anything with it. In other words, every time Hleb and Cesc had the ball, if it was not in an Arsenal teammate's possession when it left their possession, that was a turnover. I was equally nitpicky with both.

So, it turns out, on this night at least, that Cesc is far less protective of the ball, losing possession 27% of the time. In contrast, Hleb lost possession 15.6% of the time.

It doesn't seem to me that Hleb is the problem. He has clearly suffered first-touchwise since coming back from his injury, and he's clearly the player who's most comfortable lining up next to Cesc. The bigger problem may be Gilberto. Of his two passes to Cesc in this game, one was a defensive stab at the ball that was more or less deflected to Cesc. So in 190 minutes of soccer vs Chelsea, Gilberto has put the ball at Cesc's feet exactly twice purposely. This is like having Jerry Rice in your team and using him like a decoy.

Hleb's not really part of the problem, people. He's the solution. We need to get him healthy and confident again because he's the logical midfield partner for Cesc.

[Naushad78]

I think Hleb is exactly the type of player we need if we're ever going to succeed in Europe. He keeps possession, links up play, slow, patient etc etc. He's also very technically gifted. So if we could find some way to get another winger to replace him for the prem games and use some kind of rotation then we should be alright.

I think so too. Hleb looks perfect for our squad in a 4-5-1 in Europe. But not in a traditional 4-4-2 in England, no!

[Brian71]

I'm sorry, but Hleb ********ing sucks. I wish I had more intelligent points to make, but he's just pathetic. When he got subbed in, I thought "Oh Lord, anyone but him."

To his credit, he didn't give the ball away that much, or at least, not as much as usual. Still, get some sack and shoot the ball when you have a chance on goal.

...and this summer, I expect him to be gone.

I would like to echo what others are saying, that is, that I'm impressed by the original post.

[footykid]

So basically the only reason people want him gone, that hasn't been categorically proved as false is that he doesn't shoot...