Phillip Cocu

[johan neeskens]

If the Dutch league was any good then your players would stay in their own country. You cannot blame Scholes for showing loyalty and staying at the same club, an elite one at that, for his entire career. I disagree with the Phil Neville comment but I understand where it is coming from.

I don't claim that the Dutch league is a very good league. I claim that Cocu has proven himself on many levels whereas Neville and Scholes have not. I don't see how anyone can deny that really. International recognition comes with proving yourself in different leagues and in different competitions. English people who think that excelling in the premiership always and naturally means that a player is world class need a reality check.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

So I suppose his performances at international level and in Europe are irrelevant? :rolleyes:

Time for you to face facts or, by your own admission, no English or Italy (two examples) players have ever been considered world class.

[johan neeskens]

So I suppose his performances at international level and in Europe are irrelevant? :rolleyes:

Time for you to face facts or, by your own admission, no English or Italy (two examples) players have ever been considered world class.

Everything I say on the subject seems to go way over your head. I am merely asking for some respect for a Dutch player who has excelled in the Dutch, Spanish and Champions league and who has had excellent world cups and European championships for his country. An Englishman in the premiership with a similar record would have got a virtual statue on this message board but what Cocu is getting as thanks to his contribution to European football over the years is comparisons with one of the Neville brothers. And I'm made out to be the bad guy in this. Dear oh dear.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Perhaps you should read my posts in this thread.

[johan neeskens]

Perhaps you should read my posts in this thread.

I know, I saw your post on the first page. Which is exactly why I was wondering where that outburst was coming from! Or what exactly you were arguing with me against actually. I'm not anti English football at all. It just bugs me that on a thread that's supposed to honour a great footballer people come up with ridiculous comparisons. And end of the day there'll always be someone insulting the Dutch league I suppose.

[Caesar]

Cocu doesn't even come close to Scholes. Also, he plays much more deeply. More like a Carrick.
:rolleyes: filler

[Teso Dos Bichos]

I did not make or agree with the Cocu/Neville comparison. All I did was defend Scholes from a completely unmerited attack.

[johan neeskens]

I did not make or agree with the Cocu/Neville comparison. All I did was defend Scholes from a completely unmerited attack.

I highly rate Scholes, he's the best English player of his generation as far as I'm concerned. What I argue against is that when you rate Scholes, why wouldn't you rate Cocu seeing that the latter has proved himself more on the international stage than the former.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Read My Posts!!!

[Seaside Mafia]

Less physically gifted than a short ginger asthmatic?

You saying that "ginger" is a physical handicap:confused: ?

[Seaside Mafia]

I highly rate Scholes, he's the best English player of his generation as far as I'm concerned. What I argue against is that when you rate Scholes, why wouldn't you rate Cocu seeing that the latter has proved himself more on the international stage than the former.

I think you've taken the Neville comparison too literally. I think the bloke who put it ofrward did so in response to someone else describing Cocu as being a jack-of-all-trades which Neville certainly is. However, the bloke also said that the difference between the two was that Cocu had ability, which Neville doesn't. So I don't see why you're so bent out of shape. He wasn't saying that Cocu was no better than Neville.

I liked Cocu as a player. Reminded me a bit of David Platt in some ways in that for a midfield player he was always a huge goal threat and he scored quite a few. I think he was actually a better player than Platt in midfield itself - Platt would be anonymous until he got in or near the box. I can see why you'd compare him to Scholes. However, I think that Scholes has got that bit more to his game. I accept that Scholes didn't play abroad, but then he's not that type of guy - he likes being at home. If Scholes had gone abroad I think he would have become an even better player, but I have no doubt that he would have been a success wherever he went.

[johan neeskens]

I think you've taken the Neville comparison too literally. I think the bloke who put it ofrward did so in response to someone else describing Cocu as being a jack-of-all-trades which Neville certainly is. However, the bloke also said that the difference between the two was that Cocu had ability, which Neville doesn't. So I don't see why you're so bent out of shape. He wasn't saying that Cocu was no better than Neville.

I liked Cocu as a player. Reminded me a bit of David Platt in some ways in that for a midfield player he was always a huge goal threat and he scored quite a few. I think he was actually a better player than Platt in midfield itself - Platt would be anonymous until he got in or near the box. I can see why you'd compare him to Scholes. However, I think that Scholes has got that bit more to his game. I accept that Scholes didn't play abroad, but then he's not that type of guy - he likes being at home. If Scholes had gone abroad I think he would have become an even better player, but I have no doubt that he would have been a success wherever he went.

I don't doubt that either, like I said I highly rate Scholes. I just got annoyed about the lack of respect for Cocu that's all.

[Leto]

You saying that "ginger" is a physical handicap:confused: ?

Tongue in cheek.

[Seaside Mafia]

No - I was going to agree with you. Name a really popular ginge who's not good at sport.

[nicephoras]

I don't think that is doing Cocu enough credit. If he'd be only a considerably more talented version of Phil Neville, that would mean Neville would have all the qualities Cocu had only poorer. But Cocu had qualities Neville never had, such as vision (and very good vision at that) and he mentored two highly promising midfield talents at PSV in Aissati and Affelay, which is also a role I very much doubt Phill will ever play.

Saying Cocu is a considerably better version of Phill Neville is like saying Ronaldinho is a considerably better player than me. Both are basically true, but both are also statements that don't really pay attention as to the margin by which these players are better than the ones they are compared with. If that makes sense.

I'd say Cocu is comparable to a somewhat less physically gifted but more versatile version of Scholes, and I would rank the two about as high.

Neville isn't a complete clod, you know. He's not that bad a player - just far from a great one. But then again, Cocu's not great either, just very, very good in all respects of the game in his prime. Although my memories of him will always be marred by Euro2004 when he was simply on another level of atrocious.
Cocu and Scholes is a bad example, however. Scholes has no defensive ability once so ever.

[DutchFootballRulez]

The only comparisons to Scholes and Cocu is that they are the last few from a bygone (and superior) era of midfielders, and midfield play.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Scholes has no defensive ability once so ever.

Scholes' positioning is good but his tackling is still that of the striker he originally was.

[guado]

He didn't always, you know.

'tis true, i remember him playing up top in '98 and scoring against mexico.

what a game that was.

i will remember cocu as one of my favorites because of his versatility on the field, one of the players that can do a bit of everything, and because he was playing pretty well even late in his career.

[Seaside Mafia]

No - I was going to agree with you. Name a really popular ginge who's not good at sport.

Mick Hucknall?

The ginge doctor on ER?

I'm struggling here.

[laolafever]

A really great football player