Who is the next Maradona?

[JumpinJackFlash]

If you look in the dictionary, under out and out goalscorer you will see Gerd Muller. Under genius you will see Pele.

If football was religion (OK it sort of is a religion) Pele would be like Moses... all the old Jews are loving it, but Maradona is football's equivalent to Christ the Messiah. The new law of Maradona wipes clean the slate and starts a fresh new set of standards which have to be reached to be considered "genius" in the footballing world, rendering Pele as important, but a relic that doesn't apply much to football AD (After Diego).

Thus nobody ever thinks about a "New Pele" or even cares, but every couple of months or so, somebody proclaims a "New Maradona" before they ultimately fail to reach his level of his greatness.

Preemptive strike: before Tribune replies to this, with something about Pele. I'd just like to say, I don't wanna hear it until after Italy has played Romania at Euro 2008. Please, not a word until after that game.

[phil80]

Are you sure about that?:D

Not unless Messi's magic rubs off on him.

[Moishe]

Not unless Messi's magic rubs off on him.

Not likely;)

[Kulspruta]

Preemptive strike: before Tribune replies to this, with something about Pele. I'd just like to say, I don't wanna hear it until after Italy has played Romania at Euro 2008. Please, not a word until after that game.
As if it had anything to do with the issue at hand, my friend. We all saw how badly you got schooled by Tribune in that thread.

Freedom of opinion is a farce unless the factual truth is not in dispute. You haven't ever watched Pele - as the other thread demonstrates -, so you're not entitled to a legitimate opinion. There can't be no debate between knowledge and ignorance. And that's a funny analogy, do you mean Christ rendered Moses as a relic? A relic that doesn't apply much to reality's structure AC? I for one am a christian myself, and I'm sure reality has always been the same, even before the coming of Jesus.

[gmonn]

a relic that doesn't apply much to football AD (After Diego).

Thus nobody ever thinks about a "New Pele" or even cares, but every couple of months or so, somebody proclaims a "New Maradona" before they ultimately fail to reach his level of his greatness.


There's another way to look at that. It's much, much harder to have a new Pele. If we started a thread saying who is the next Pele, the answer would be nobody playing today will ever be close. The bar for Pele is too high. Pele is pre-injuries Ronaldo + Ronaldinho at his best + Romario + Henry's speed + Messi's touch and acceleration + Zidane's grace + great leaping ability and vision. I don't think I'm exaggerating.

[roykeanes_safc]

There's another way to look at that. It's much, much harder to have a new Pele. If we started a thread saying who is the next Pele, the answer would be nobody playing today will ever be close. The bar for Pele is too high. Pele is pre-injuries Ronaldo + Ronaldinho at his best + Romario + Henry's speed + Messi's touch and acceleration + Zidane's grace + great leaping ability and vision. I don't think I'm exaggerating.

Dont be ridiculous, Maradonna was a better player than Pele. The fact you are comparing Ronaldinhios style to Pele is a farce. Peles style was like a Brazilian Dennis Bergkamp but with the raw talents young Ronaldo had. He bottled moving to Europe and then moved to America to retire.

Maradonna went to todays equivalent Derby and won Serie not once but twice and also a Uefa Cup maybe with inferior World Cup success but you could argue Peles supporting cast was a lot stronger than Maradonnas.

[Kulspruta]

Dont be ridiculous, Maradonna was a better player than Pele. The fact you are comparing Ronaldinhios style to Pele is a farce. Peles style was like a Brazilian Dennis Bergkamp
:eek:

...but with the raw talents young Ronaldo had. He bottled moving to Europe and then moved to America to retire.
:eek:

...Maradonna went to todays equivalent Derby and won Serie not once but twice and also a Uefa Cup maybe with inferior World Cup success but you could argue Peles supporting cast was a lot stronger than Maradonnas.
:eek:

[gmonn]

Dont be ridiculous, Maradonna was a better player than Pele. The fact you are comparing Ronaldinhios style to Pele is a farce. Peles style was like a Brazilian Dennis Bergkamp but with the raw talents young Ronaldo had. He bottled moving to Europe and then moved to America to retire.

Maradonna went to todays equivalent Derby and won Serie not once but twice and also a Uefa Cup maybe with inferior World Cup success but you could argue Peles supporting cast was a lot stronger than Maradonnas.

Yeah, my suggestion to you is just talk about Maradona, if you're knowledgable on him. Don't try to talk about Pele.

[roykeanes_safc]

:eek:

As intelligent strikers, i dont see the shock

:eek:

Big bottler, had numerous opportunities to come here but was scared of the challenge

:eek:

Napoli at the time were the equivalent of Derby today, they were yoyoing between Serie A and B

[roykeanes_safc]

Yeah, my suggestion to you is just talk about Maradona, if you're knowledgable on him. Don't try to talk about Pele.

People who big up Pele only do so as they think they are meant to because he is the games biggest name. The fact is he is a legend of the game but his status dwindles everytime a world class player emerges in the game.

His legend comes from his World Cup performances which you cant argue with BUT

He never proved himself in a league other than the Brazilian league
Never played in European Competition
His goal scoring record came at a time time you could basically push the goalkeeper into the net and a goal would be given.

Now to be lablelled the GOAT with these Omissions when El Diego did just a little worse in the World Cup but with the above answered its obvious who the real icon is. However FIFA will always favour Pele as he is clean cut for the kids and doesnt have a past.

[Kulspruta]

As intelligent strikers, i dont see the shock
This I won't even bother answering, as it's obvious you have never seen one of his games before.

Big bottler, had numerous opportunities to come here but was scared of the challenge
:rolleyes: Yeah, scared:
--_W_oR-Cn0
Not to mention the World Cups, playing against european opposition. The average level of the brazilian league in the sixties, if not higher, was the same of the top european leagues. I don't have Tribune's patience, but I suggest you read the "ultimate footballer to walk on earth" thread. All the data is covered there, and I'm sorry to inform you, but you're way off the mark.

Napoli at the time were the equivalent of Derby today, they were yoyoing between Serie A and B
Can you imagine Derby with Careca, Bagni, De Napoli, Ferrara, Giordano and Alemão?

[bosterosoy]

Dont be ridiculous, Maradonna was a better player than Pele. The fact you are comparing Ronaldinhios style to Pele is a farce. Peles style was like a Brazilian Dennis Bergkamp but with the raw talents young Ronaldo had. He bottled moving to Europe and then moved to America to retire.

I believe that Maradona was better than Pele. But on't give bogus reasons. He dominated the World Cup and those European teams, he killed them in the Copa Intercontinental and his team competed toe to toe with the best teams in Europe during friendlies (which we all know are not like friendlies today).

The only reason he went to America to end his career was to make some easy money because he was on the verge from bankruptcy. The Brasilian league was very strong back then as was the Argentinian league. Just imagine how good the Brasilian and Argentinian league would be today if they didn't have to sell players because of economical problems and that was how strong the leagues were in Pele's day

[roykeanes_safc]

This I won't even bother answering, as it's obvious you have never seen one of his games before.


:rolleyes: Yeah, scared:
qdLCqvSO3SM
--_W_oR-Cn0
Not to mention the World Cups, playing against european opposition. The average level of the brazilian league in the sixties, if not higher, was the same of the top european leagues. I don't have Tribune's patience, but I suggest you read the "ultimate footballer to walk on earth" thread. All the data is covered there, and I'm sorry to inform you, but you're way off the mark.


Can you imagine Derby with Careca, Bagni, De Napoli, Ferrara, Giordano and Alemão?

The argument about European competition was more the European/Uefa/Cup winners cups not actual domestic leagues where the cream of football was played.

Never seen a Pele game as if, so his one touch passing, control and at times shooting wasnt Bergkamp esque?

Rivelinos goal against Italy, Peles assist is a lot like what Bergkamp did.

Those players mentioned werent all at Napoli when Maradonna signed though were they. Maradonna told Napoli who to sign if they were to win the scudetto and looked what happened. They were only able to sign good players through Maradonna being there, the squad of players as Maradonna first signed was very similar to a Derby.

[gmonn]

People who big up Pele only do so as they think they are meant to because he is the games biggest name. The fact is he is a legend of the game but his status dwindles everytime a world class player emerges in the game.

His legend comes from his World Cup performances which you cant argue with BUT

He never proved himself in a league other than the Brazilian league
Never played in European Competition
His goal scoring record came at a time time you could basically push the goalkeeper into the net and a goal would be given.

Now to be lablelled the GOAT with these Omissions when El Diego did just a little worse in the World Cup but with the above answered its obvious who the real icon is. However FIFA will always favour Pele as he is clean cut for the kids and doesnt have a past.

His legend only dwindles with young people out of ignorance. Your bolded arguments just show that you don't understand that time period. Really, read the ultimate player thread, you'll find your side of the argument well represented and fully disproved.

[roykeanes_safc]

I believe that Maradona was better than Pele. But on't give bogus reasons. He dominated the World Cup and those European teams, he killed them in the Copa Intercontinental and his team competed toe to toe with the best teams in Europe during friendlies (which we all know are not like friendlies today).

The only reason he went to America to end his career was to make some easy money because he was on the verge from bankruptcy. The Brasilian league was very strong back then as was the Argentinian league. Just imagine how good the Brasilian and Argentinian league would be today if they didn't have to sell players because of economical problems and that was how strong the leagues were in Pele's day

Yeah they would be very stong leagues offensively, but defensively is as we all know is where many south American teams struggle. The best attacking players are South American, the best defensive players are European. It would have been harder for Pele to score goals in Europe than South America.

He didnt dominate the World Cup either, he was instrumental yes but apart from most World Cup wins he holds no World Cup records.

[Kulspruta]

His goal scoring record came at a time time you could basically push the goalkeeper into the net and a goal would be given.
And what the heck do you know about those times? Could you provide some kind of evidence to prove your point?

There's one thing I do know about those times, they were ruthless:

rKI6-6NqmoA

Edit: you know what? I'm out of here. I've watched both, you've not. This debate is pointless, completely barren. You do not have a legitimate claim.

[bosterosoy]

Yeah they would be very stong leagues offensively, but defensively is as we all know is where many south American teams struggle. The best attacking players are South American, the best defensive players are European. It would have been harder for Pele to score goals in Europe than South America.

He didnt dominate the World Cup either, he was instrumental yes but apart from most World Cup wins he holds no World Cup records.

1) Currently, the leagues would have the following players: Zanetti, Ayala, Samuel, Burdisso, Cafu, Roberto Carlos, Gabriel Milito, Heinze

2) Even if the top European defenders are better than the top South American defenders, the difference is the difference between the middle rated defenders. Argentina and Brasil has much more depth than countries like Italy and Germany and WAY more depth than England and Spain. Just think of some of the top teams without any Brasilians/Argentinians.

Real Madrid would be lacking: Robinho, Gago, Heinze, saviola, Higuian, Baptista
Barcelona would be lacking: Gabriel Milito, Lionel Messi, Ronaldinho, Edmilson
AC Milan: Cafu, Kaka, Dida, Serginho, Ronaldo, Emerson, Alexander Pato
Arsenal: Gilberto Silva, Denilson
Inter Milan: Cease to exist pretty much

The Spanish and Italian teams would be harshly hit, the English teams not so much, but then now think about the teams that they would have in Argentina and Brasil

I'll show you an example using my team, Boca Juniors

GK: Pato Abbondanzieri (Getafe)
RB: Hugo Ibarra (Boca)
CB: Nicolas Burdisso (Inter)
CB: Walter Samuel (Inter)
LB: Clemente Rodriguez (Espanyol)
RM: Pablo Ledesma (Boca)
CM: Fernando Gago (Real Madrid)
LM: Sebastian Battaglia (Boca)
AM: Juan Roman Riquelme (Boca)
F: Carlos Tevez (Manchester United)
F: Martin Palermo (Boca)

Subs:
GK: Miguel Caranta (Boca)
LB: Morel Rodriguez (Boca)
CB: Daniel 'Cata' Diaz (Getafe)
CM: Fabian Vargas (Boca)
AM: Federico Insua (America)
F: Rodrigo Palacio (Boca)

Now try and make a Milan, Inter, or Barcelona team like that. And on top of that now consider that since these teams have less star players, the star players that Chelsea, Arsenal etc have that aren't European (making their lineup still solid) would be more equally divided among the other power teams.

Get the picture??

[Tribune]

Yeah they would be very stong leagues offensively, but defensively is as we all know is where many south American teams struggle. The best attacking players are South American, the best defensive players are European. It would have been harder for Pele to score goals in Europe than South America.

He didnt dominate the World Cup either, he was instrumental yes but apart from most World Cup wins he holds no World Cup records.

Brazil Sao Paulo goal ratio in 1962 : 3.35 goals per game

Primera Division in 1962 : 3.17 goals per game

Serie A in 1962 : 2.51 goals per game

Premier League in 1962 : 3.42 goals per game


So, besides the usual suspects Serie A, Brazil was no more weak defensively than La Liga or Premier League.
Are the records of players like Di Stefano, Puskas, Best or Bobby Charlton worth nothing because of this ?

Besides, if Brazil had the best offences, and yet, somehow, the brazilian defenses conceded just as much as their counterparts from Spain or England, what does that tell about the defenses from those countries... You know, conceding the same numbers although facing, by your own admission, attacking forces not as good as the ones from Brazil :rolleyes: ?

Man, you are really giving us europeans a bad name.

[JumpinJackFlash]

I think this thread should just go back to being about Maradona and his wannabes, before it gets too far off topic.

The Brazilians think Pele is the greatest. The majority of the rest of the world thinks that Maradona was the greatest, whether they're Argentine or not. Really is there anything else to say on that now?

Dnv_x73FrF0
Zee Brazilians are coming.... oh it was just a bad dream.

[Dr. Know]

He never proved himself in a league other than the Brazilian league
Never played in European Competition
His goal scoring record came at a time time you could basically push the goalkeeper into the net and a goal would be given.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6034/frustdw0.gif

Not this shit again.