Who is the next Maradona?

[Moishe]

I love to watch Tevez, and I don't agree with any of those really. Maybe strength and injuries. That's it. Not sure about free kicks, because Ronaldinho is among the best in the world at that. Tevez's finishing for Man Utd has been laughable, score one and fluff three or four. But he's better than that. Holding up, Messi regularly holds off three defenders, he doesn't necessarily go straight through them. Passing, Messi has shown he has some Riquelme in him. Positioning and movement? He pops up in the right place and time all the time. You probably saw his third goal against Real Madrid last year? He also strips the ball from defenders and midfielders.
It's also Tevez that's in danger of losing his place in the Argentina team, not Messi.

Having watched Tevez since his first run-out for BOCA, he's been playing at the level he is now for quite some time and I think a lot of that goes over many peoples head (not saying you) yet he never has received the hype Messi has which is kinda puzzling.

I think strength goes without saying while their those that seem to favor Messi in this area but to each their own. Tevez has also rarely let an injury keep him off the pitch and if so only for a short time. You are definitely correct in that Carlitos' finishing has been inconsistent for a while now and is only one of maybe two flaws in his armor.

As you said, Messi has the ability to hold-up more so than hold-off multiple defenders by utilizing his quickness. Tevez on the other doesn't do that nearly as well but he does shield the ball far more effectively by virtue of his short stout frame. In short they both do a tremendous job doing the same thing just in different ways. That really is a toss up.

Distribution is something Messi has really started to put together more recently and to me it was the area that once sorted out would put him at a considerably higher level than he already is. His passing is starting to show similarities to Riquelme which you pointed out and the influence from Roman on the national team will only make Messi better at reading the game which in turn will open up more sweet passing. Tevez on the other hand reads the game very well and has shown the ability to be a deep play making forward as far back as BOCA and he passes very well also to boot. I find this attribute to be a toss up b/w the two which as an Argentine is just fine with me.

Set piece taking and free kicks are clearly in the corner of Tevez. Messi more or less has to defer to Ronaldinho which is quite understandable. To put this in perspective, Tevez takes the set-pieces when Roman is not there and when Riquelme is there Ibarra is next in line to Tevez. I have no doubts Messi will make great strides in this field as he just seems to be a good student of the game.

Last I'd like to touch on the national team picture. I've made it clear that on recent form I'd start Messi over Tevez if it came down to only one. Depending on what El Coco decides to do with Crespo we'll likely see both still starting. What gets lost is that the role Messi is currently showing for the national team is because of where he lines up tactically compared to Tevez. Tevez usually played the role that Messi did before he emerged on the scene and now through injury and questionable selection he is forced to try and play as a nine. Again to put this in perspective, how effective would Messi be in the same role?

I do think Messi is worthy of all the praise he receives yet I don't see him being "clearly" superior to anyone else but the way he grows every time he gets substantial playing time the gap will surely widen. That said anyone that discounts what CRonaldo has achieved over a fairly decent stretch with the consistency just doesn't like the lad for other reasons. Kaka'? Damn talented player but WPOTY? To each his own I guess.

edit: someone mentioned heart b/w the two players. How do you quantify such a thing? This becomes more difficult when you have two distinctively different personality types. Messi is low key and comes across as very humble. While Tevez is very extroverted and a bit of a ham. Messi like Riquelme doesn't over do it when showing emotion for anything on that happens on the pitch while Tevez has received his share of cards for not controlling the fire in his belly. They both have heart is what it comes down and again they show it in different ways.

[bosterosoy]

Having watched Tevez since his first run-out for BOCA, he's been playing at the level he is now for quite some time and I think a lot of that goes over many peoples head (not saying you) yet he never has received the hype Messi has which is kinda puzzling.

agree, especially with his 3 time South American player of the year. I know everybody is now going to say that 'well, that's because it's in South America, not in Europe'. Well, I counter that by pointing out that other star South American players were not able to accomplish that in their careers in South America, including Robinho (who's Santos got destroyed by Tevez' Boca in the Libertadores 2003 final)

[El Mandrake]

Who's the next Di Stefano? Ya it was a long time ago, ya the game was different then....but old people tell me he was complete at every inch of the field.....marado had his sectors.....grass stopped growing on that right side where messi achieves light speed...but sure marado's body did things that flowed out of his imagination....messi also seems to be achieving that oneness....but not that level of control, diego could win games using only his shoulder .............but let's hope he doesn't get hurt, ect.

[mexicanplayer#19]

do any of yall know what messi recorded speed is?

[Moishe]

Who's the next Di Stefano? Ya it was a long time ago, ya the game was different then....but old people tell me he was complete at every inch of the field.....marado had his sectors.....grass stopped growing on that right side where messi achieves light speed...but sure marado's body did things that flowed out of his imagination....messi also seems to be achieving that oneness....but not that level of control, diego could win games using only his shoulder .............but let's hope he doesn't get hurt, ect.

My viejo and a couple of my uncles grew up watching and following river to this day actually. They saw Di Stefano many many times as well as in Bogota and for the time period he was there they said he as at best the second or third best player on those river teams. My uncle scoffed at the notion Alfredo being considered the amongst the best ever when he couldn't even carry the boots of Adolfo Pedernera. Anyways good post Maradona had the one thing you can't see to explain.

[bostonsoccermdl]

what has c ronaldo proven so far?

Stopped reading right here....

[Hyuuga Neji]

What a crap thread this is. Direct comparisons to past occurences are useless. I had to write a ten page essay about them and their negatives. No player can replicate Maradonna in likeness as being the 'New Maradonna'. Not eben to mention whoever clearly wants Messi to win as he is the only player that shares similar characteristics to Diego Maradona. to pidgeonhole Messi as the 'Next Maradonna' is thoughtless and improper.

[phil80]

I'm neither ignorant nor stupid. That is the difference between me and those who are blind to his talent, influence and standing. :rolleyes:



Aside from what you stated I would also put Tevez ahead on movement, positioning, hold up play and passing. Messi's injury problems no doubt have everything to do with his growth hormone deficiency, which is directly connected to his 'small frame'. It also means he will remain injury prone.



There is no definition of football IQ. Not only is it very subjective but there is no way of measuring it. Therefore it is a useless term to use. Regardless, it is also not the only factor that must be used when comparing players. Messi being injured a lot of irrelevant because it is something that will never change. It cannot be used as an excuse and it should not be used to take anything away from another player. It is far more relevant to discuss their respective roles for club and country, while also contrasting the style of play in their respective leagues. I also disagree with any claims that Messi has better vision than Ronaldo. Why don't you explain why you consider it to be the case and we can have a discussion, instead of making blanket statements.
Footballing IQ encompasses a lot of qualities, including but not limited to, vision, movement off the ball, moving the ball in relation to the team's defense, not giving up the ball carelessly (anyone who suggests Messi gives the ball away more doing needless tricks than Ronaldo needs to get their head examined), knowing when to pass or take on players, knowing the strengths and weaknesses of your own teammates and playing accordingly (ie, Messi gives the ball to Dinho's feet, while gives more leading passes to Etoo to incorporate his speed), etc. Messi is superior in those aspects to both Ronaldo and Tevez
There is no way Tevez is a better passer, better in movement, or better in positioning (if anything they are equal in positioning).
Footballing IQ is a vital part in judging a player, and eventhough it is subjective it is not to the extent you are suggesting. To compare players only on stats and accomplishments is ridiculous. If you cant tell the class of a player by watching their on field performances than that person has no right judging players.

[phil80]

Teso, you beat me to it.
So we now have Tevez being better in movement, positioning, holding upplay, passing, free kicks, finishing, strength, not being injury prone and i'll give you another one, heart
How can you not think it's debatable on who is a better passer?

[Hyuuga Neji]

And is someone arguing that Tevez is better than Messi. I'd like to see someone explain that.

[bosterosoy]

And is someone arguing that Tevez is better than Messi. I'd like to see someone explain that.

Tevez has accomplished much more as a player

[gmonn]

Tevez has accomplished much more as a player

There are so many players in the world who have accomplished more than 20 year old Messi. Tevez is a fantastic player, but he's not someone we can think of as a future top-ten-of-all-time player. Messi is playing as a 20 year old future top-ten-of-all-time would play.

[rafa_porto]

I disagree with all people who think sport nowadays will never be like it was in past. I believe many athetes have proven to be on Pele's and Maradona's leagues (offcourse not Kaka, who is only good and less genious than both Ronaldos, Messi, Cristiano or Henry). But all of these mentioned above are to me in the same level of Pele. My opinion.
Now, about Maradona, I think he was great but for many times he was unobjective (just like Cristiano). He is quoted as one of the greatests but he scored only 235 goas if I'm not mistaken, and thats why I think Cristiano will be the next him, because I don't like his way of playing and not yielding greater results. To me, they are both awesome but Messi will produce much more than both of them.
I really don't understand why nobody talks about DiStefano, Newton Santos who played with him and with Pele, and was the best left side back ever in Brazil's football history, said that DiStefano was better. And Zico scored three times as many goal as Maradona playing in almost the same position. Maradona has become a leggend, but I think the leggend is far greater than the actual player. I, for instance, wouldn't put him in a all time classics team.

[rafa_porto]

Being Brazilian, I coudn't agree more with you.
But I don't think Tevez is any better than Robinho, same league. Here at Brazil Tevez played like he has never played in europe, what was the opposite with Robinho who stopped playing here at age 19 (counting from his mother kidnapping). What Tevez needs is some strong player to play ahead of him inside the area, Manchester lost this man when sold nistelroy.

[bosterosoy]

He is quoted as one of the greatests but he scored only 235 goas if I'm not mistaken, and thats why I think Cristiano will be the next him, because I don't like his way of playing and not yielding greater results. To me, they are both awesome but Messi will produce much more than both of them.

Your figure is incredibly inaccurate. He scored over 100 goals with Argentinos Juniors alone, and had almost 150 when he left for Barcelona at the age of 21. Just a quick search on wikipedia and he scored 311 league goals, which doesn't include cup competitions, which would bring his total even higher, plus 34 goals with Argentina.

Here is a little bit of what Messi has to accomplish in order to produce more than Maradona:

1) He would need to win minimum 1 World cup, while making the finals in another World Cup. Not only that, but he has to win that WC almost singlehandedly and with the greatest performance in a WC that the world has seen (as was Maradona's when he won it in '86)

2) Maradona with Napoli: 2 Scudettos, 1 Coppa Italia, 1 Supercoppa Italiana, 1 UEFA cup. Now, that was with Napoli. Messi is playing at Barcelona, alongside players who are some of the best of his era (Ronaldinho, Henry, Eto'o to name a few). Maradona didn't have this advantage, and yet he still led Napoli to 2 league titles, including the one in '88-89 when during the era of the great Milan team of that time, not to mention the other teams that won many international titles at that time. So, Messi would have to win an INCREDIBLE amounts of trophies (and still then he wouldn't have done it singlehandedly like Maradona had to). Some will say that so far Messi has won 2 league titles and a Champions League title, but he didn't have major roles in those titles at all.

So Messi has a long way to go before he accomplishes more than the great Maradona

[bosterosoy]

What Tevez needs is some strong player to play ahead of him inside the area, Manchester lost this man when sold nistelroy.
He was VERY successful in Boca and he didn't have this either, so I don't think it's somethinge he needs, he's doing fine with Rooney, Saha and C Ronaldo

[mexicanplayer#19]

Your figure is incredibly inaccurate. He scored over 100 goals with Argentinos Juniors alone, and had almost 150 when he left for Barcelona at the age of 21. Just a quick search on wikipedia and he scored 311 league goals, which doesn't include cup competitions, which would bring his total even higher, plus 34 goals with Argentina.

Here is a little bit of what Messi has to accomplish in order to produce more than Maradona:

1) He would need to win minimum 1 World cup, while making the finals in another World Cup. Not only that, but he has to win that WC almost singlehandedly and with the greatest performance in a WC that the world has seen (as was Maradona's when he won it in '86)

2) Maradona with Napoli: 2 Scudettos, 1 Coppa Italia, 1 Supercoppa Italiana, 1 UEFA cup. Now, that was with Napoli. Messi is playing at Barcelona, alongside players who are some of the best of his era (Ronaldinho, Henry, Eto'o to name a few). Maradona didn't have this advantage, and yet he still led Napoli to 2 league titles, including the one in '88-89 when during the era of the great Milan team of that time, not to mention the other teams that won many international titles at that time. So, Messi would have to win an INCREDIBLE amounts of trophies (and still then he wouldn't have done it singlehandedly like Maradona had to). Some will say that so far Messi has won 2 league titles and a Champions League title, but he didn't have major roles in those titles at all.

So Messi has a long way to go before he accomplishes more than the great Maradona

anyone can do that if they try and work for it and messi sure can

[Teso Dos Bichos]

There are so many players in the world who have accomplished more than 20 year old Messi. Tevez is a fantastic player, but he's not someone we can think of as a future top-ten-of-all-time player. Messi is playing as a 20 year old future top-ten-of-all-time would play.

So what would that make Cristiano Ronaldo? Top five? :rolleyes:

[gmonn]

So what would make Cristiano Ronaldo? Top five?

Good question. He's going to have to step it up to challenge for the top 10 all time, don't you think?

[Teso Dos Bichos]

He's clearly ahead of Messi at this stage.