Zidane vs Christiano Ronaldo

[dryan]

Schmeichel, Kahn, Buffon, Maldini, Lizarazu, Carlos, Zambrotta, Cafu, Zanetti, Nesta, Campbell, Stam, Ayala, Blanc, Desailly, Thuram, Ferdinand, Giggs, Figo, Overmars, Redondo, Keane, Scholes, Cocu, Makelele, Vieira, Davids, Ballack, Effenberg, Matthaus, Scholl, Veron, Paulo Sousa, Micoud, Mendieta, Riquelme, Rui Costa, Nedved, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Totti, Zola, Del Piero, Baggio, Nakata, Ronaldo, Raul, Bergkamp, Henry, Shevchenko, Van Nistelrooy, Shearer.

That's 50 odd off the top of my head.

Hahahahaha. Are you just trolling this thread or what?

[I-Got-The-BLUES]

Schmeichel, Kahn, Buffon, Maldini, Lizarazu, Carlos, Zambrotta, Cafu, Zanetti, Nesta, Campbell, Stam, Ayala, Blanc, Desailly, Thuram, Ferdinand, Giggs, Figo, Overmars, Redondo, Keane, Scholes, Cocu, Makelele, Vieira, Davids, Ballack, Effenberg, Matthaus, Scholl, Veron, Paulo Sousa, Micoud, Mendieta, Riquelme, Rui Costa, Nedved, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Totti, Zola, Del Piero, Baggio, Nakata, Ronaldo, Raul, Bergkamp, Henry, Shevchenko, Van Nistelrooy, Shearer.

That's 50 odd off the top of my head.Half of your list is damn near laughable....which is more than likely due to your hatred of Zidane

The other half is debatable, I'd disagree with 90% of it, but I can see how you could argue strongly in favour of them

[Teso Dos Bichos]

We are talking about their quality, performances and influence over the stated time period. Zidane would be involved in my next batch but he does not beat the vast majority of those listed. To put it another way, think about the best XI over the last 10 years, then create a second XI and even a third XI. Zidane would not be in the first three teams I would create which, by extension, means he is not amongst the best 33 players. I was only asked to list 20. While we might all disagree over the exact 20 listed, almost everyone who is not biased by aesthetics could name 20 better players.

[Dr.Phil]

dYUtKKbBTkw

:D
I love reading this thread

[Leto]

To put it another way, think about the best XI over the last 10 years, then create a second XI and even a third XI. Zidane would not be in the first three teams I would create which, by extension, means he is not amongst the best 33 players.

[devil's advocate] Not really. [/devil's advocate]

[Teso Dos Bichos]

I love reading this thread

Why don't you contribute to it then and try to answer some of the questions posed?

[devil's advocate] Not really. [/devil's advocate]

I understand the point you are trying to make but you have missed mine. I am trying to get people to construct functioning teams and think about players from every position over the defined time period. Perhaps in doing so they might realise the quality of player Zidane is up against. Has he had a better time period than a Schmeichel, Maldini, Nesta, Makelele, Keane, etc? The answer is no. When you consider players from every position and look at their quality, performances and influence, my claim of 20 better players is not as shocking as some think. What is your opinion on Zidane and how he ranks? Have you thought about trying to constuct teams?

[Leto]

I understand the point you are trying to make but you have missed mine. I am trying to get people to construct functioning teams and think about players from every position over the defined time period. Perhaps in doing so they might realise the quality of player Zidane is up against. Has he had a better time period than a Schmeichel, Maldini, Nesta, Makelele, Keane, etc? The answer is no. When you consider players from every position and look at their quality, performances and influence, my claim of 20 better players is not as shocking as some think. What is your opinion on Zidane and how he ranks? Have you thought about trying to constuct teams?

In case my endorsement of Tribune earlier and my flagging 'devil's advocate' didn't make it clear, I don't think Zidane is the best player of recent times. There are a fair number of players I'd rate ahead of him - I'm not going to get into the arbitrarily-defined lists game.

Pointing out a problem with your team-building suggestion doesn't mean that I missed the point. Your intention was fairly clear, and useful as far as it goes in that it might help some people to realise how many quality players of different styles there have been. However, the logic of 'top 3 teams = top 33 players' is flawed. Regardless of agreeing with the overall sentiment, that had to be pointed out. No big deal.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Unfortunately pointing it out will no doubt lead to Zidane fans simply not bothering.

[Leto]

Ah, but now I can carry on my life with a clean conscience, safe in the knowledge that I averted a possible logical disaster. I might go to bed now - it's the most productive thing I'll do all day.

[Dr.Phil]

Schmeichel, Kahn, Buffon, Maldini, Lizarazu, Carlos, Zambrotta, Cafu, Zanetti, Nesta, Campbell, Stam, Ayala, Blanc, Desailly, Thuram, Ferdinand, Giggs, Figo, Overmars, Redondo, Keane, Scholes, Cocu, Makelele, Vieira, Davids, Ballack, Effenberg, Matthaus, Scholl, Veron, Paulo Sousa, Micoud, Mendieta, Riquelme, Rui Costa, Nedved, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Totti, Zola, Del Piero, Baggio, Nakata, Ronaldo, Raul, Bergkamp, Henry, Shevchenko, Van Nistelrooy, Shearer.

That's 50 odd off the top of my head.

Is this a list of people better then Zidane

If it is what is it based on

[O Fenômeno]

look zidane is better than cristiano ronaldo....where all this other crap come from.

And teso what exactly are you trying to argue here??

[Dr.Phil]

he thinks Zidane is overrated

[I-Got-The-BLUES]

We are talking about their quality, performances and influence over the stated time period. Zidane would be involved in my next batch but he does not beat the vast majority of those listed. To put it another way, think about the best XI over the last 10 years, then create a second XI and even a third XI. Zidane would not be in the first three teams I would create which, by extension, means he is not amongst the best 33 players. I was only asked to list 20. While we might all disagree over the exact 20 listed, almost everyone who is not biased by aesthetics could name 20 better players.The 1st name that popped out at me, before I actually read your list, was Makelele, how do you justify Maka being a better player than Zidane?
Say you have a team of worthless players, can't play football to save their lives, and you have the choice between Maka and Zidane, you would honestly pick Maka?
What would Maka bring to that team, that would make the team better than if Zidane was there?

Definitely not taking a shot at what Makelele brings to the game, but what elevates him to be a better player than Zidane?

(Not a challenge, I'm trying to see this from your point of view, I understand you think he's overrated, but just trying to see what makes these contemporary greats all greater than Zizou)

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Makelele's time at the 'top' (in relation to performances and influence) was simply for a far greater period of time than Zidane.

[Dr.Phil]

What do you mean he was more significant to his team

Maybe its all relative

But Zidane is a far better player

[Leto]

What do you mean he was more significant to his team

Maybe its all relative

But Zidane is a far better player

Could you try to be more vague, please?

[TKORL]

Schmeichel, Kahn, Buffon, Maldini, Lizarazu, Carlos, Zambrotta, Cafu, Zanetti, Nesta, Campbell, Stam, Ayala, Blanc, Desailly, Thuram, Ferdinand, Giggs, Figo, Overmars, Redondo, Keane, Scholes, Cocu, Makelele, Vieira, Davids, Ballack, Effenberg, Matthaus, Scholl, Veron, Paulo Sousa, Micoud, Mendieta, Riquelme, Rui Costa, Nedved, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Totti, Zola, Del Piero, Baggio, Nakata, Ronaldo, Raul, Bergkamp, Henry, Shevchenko, Van Nistelrooy, Shearer.

That's 50 odd off the top of my head.
Wtf...... Shearer/Nakata/Riquelme/Micoud/Mendieta/Veron/Ferdinand/Campbell don't belong in the same sentence as Zidane...overrated or not.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Perhaps I might retract Nakata and Micoud but they are close. The others are superior, some having individual seasons that Zidane cannot match, others being better during their peak years and the rest simply better over the majority of their careers.

[brassmonkey]

Schmeichel, Kahn, Buffon, Maldini, Lizarazu, Carlos, Zambrotta, Cafu, Zanetti, Nesta, Campbell, Stam, Ayala, Blanc, Desailly, Thuram, Ferdinand, Giggs, Figo, Overmars, Redondo, Keane, Scholes, Cocu, Makelele, Vieira, Davids, Ballack, Effenberg, Matthaus, Scholl, Veron, Paulo Sousa, Micoud, Mendieta, Riquelme, Rui Costa, Nedved, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Totti, Zola, Del Piero, Baggio, Nakata, Ronaldo, Raul, Bergkamp, Henry, Shevchenko, Van Nistelrooy, Shearer.

That's 50 odd off the top of my head.

You can't compare goalkeepers with midfielders.

Take Nakata, Mendieta, Sousa, and Micoud off and you have a pretty good list of the greats of this generation, but I've seen all of them play and none of them in my mind match Zidane. It's not because I heard someone on tv or read on a message board people saying he was great. It's because before I saw him play I viewed football as a sport, like basketball or baseball. After I first saw him I realised that it could be an art, a religious experience full of indescrible beauty. I can watch Ronaldo move through some defenders and let a screamer loose or Ronaldinho dribble the ball or Rivaldo do a bicycle kick, and I think that its awesome. But when I see Zidane I'm often times nearly moved to tears, because its truly magical. You can spit out statistics all you want, and yeah I'll agree Zidane isnt the best of all time or maybe even of his generation, but I KNOW that for me he'll always be the greatest. Greatness isn't something you can put down on a score sheet, and it doesn't show up on paper. It's something you have to see and feel.

[Ronaldob4hegotfat]

Schmeichel, Kahn, Buffon, Maldini, Lizarazu, Carlos, Zambrotta, Cafu, Zanetti, Nesta, Campbell, Stam, Ayala, Blanc, Desailly, Thuram, Ferdinand, Giggs, Figo, Overmars, Redondo, Keane, Scholes, Cocu, Makelele, Vieira, Davids, Ballack, Effenberg, Matthaus, Scholl, Veron, Paulo Sousa, Micoud, Mendieta, Riquelme, Rui Costa, Nedved, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Totti, Zola, Del Piero, Baggio, Nakata, Ronaldo, Raul, Bergkamp, Henry, Shevchenko, Van Nistelrooy, Shearer.

That's 50 odd off the top of my head.

I'll support a good portion of that list. Atleast 60% of it.