....But I dont feel French.....

[cmblfc]

I dont know what it is, but I have a lot of trouble identifying with my French heritage. My last name is French, I celebrate Mardi Gras, I am taking French in the fall but I still dont feel that French.

Granted, I'm an American, but the thing that I have always noticed is that I have always felt more attached to my mother's Italian heritage. I do love Quebec, where my family went to before they entered the US, but I always have had trouble translating that pride to France.

I am not even sure of what I am asking anyone here. Im just stating that I have a problem with identifying myself with the nation. Does any other Americans have this issue with either their French heritage or other ones?

[Douai]

I am a French-American and I don't have this problem at all.Who exactly is French in your family, and how French are they?For most Americans they have French ancestors from a long time ago.If that is the case for you then it would be very hard to identify with a heritage and culture you know very little about or have very little connection with.My dad is 100% French from Douai of the Nord-Pas-de-Calais region of France.Half my family still lives in France.I have dual-citizenship (French and American),my full name is French (Julien Laurent Delabre) and my dad spoke French to me at a very young age.I feel more French than American even though my mom is American and I live in the U.S.

[cmblfc]

I am a French-American and I don't have this problem at all.Who exactly is French in your family, and how French are they?For most Americans they have French ancestors from a long time ago.If that is the case for you then it would be very hard to identify with a heritage and culture you know very little about or have very little connection with.My dad is 100% French from Douai of the Nord-Pas-de-Calais region of France.Half my family still lives in France.I have dual-citizenship (French and American),my full name is French (Julien Laurent Delabre) and my dad spoke French to me at a very young age.I feel more French than American even though my mom is American and I live in the U.S.

My dad's side of the family. My dad is half french, but my name is Christopher Michael Boulay. (Easily a french name) The problem is is that my grandfather wouldnt teach my dad French. My dad's grandparents spoke it quite a lot, but I dont remember much of it. My family lived in St. Gilles, Quebec (near Quebec City) when they came over from Boulay in Normandie in 1620.

My french ancestors are from a long time ago, but its ironic that the language just stopped right before me. That is one of the reasons I want to learn it.

Its weird, I dont feel very American at all. People get mad at me for saying that, but I dont. I usually ally with my ethnicities, even though it has been a while since my family came over.

[ilv2]

bah the notion frenchness is both artificial and absurd in any case.

[cmblfc]

bah the notion frenchness is both artificial and absurd in any case.

Well, I dont mean in the sense of citizenship, or like dying for one's nation.

I just dont feel American at all. So, I attach myself to my ethnicities for better or for worse. I just always have had a problem connecting to my french heritage no matter how hard i tried.

I love living in America, but I dont feel that I have a national identity whether it is for my name or my nation.

[ilv2]

Well, I dont mean in the sense of citizenship, or like dying for one's nation.

I just dont feel American at all. So, I attach myself to my ethnicities for better or for worse. I just always have had a problem connecting to my french heritage no matter how hard i tried.

I love living in America, but I dont feel that I have a national identity whether it is for my name or my nation.

And so you feel that it is necessary to have one - i.e. aligning yourself with a certain group that pretends to evoke commonality - in order to establish a personal identity? Assuming that being American carries a common identity over the state citizenship one carries is exactly the absurdity that I'm talking about. The same applies with being 'french.'

[cmblfc]

And so you feel that it is necessary to have one - i.e. aligning yourself with a certain group that pretends to evoke commonality - in order to establish a personal identity? Assuming that being American carries a common identity over the state citizenship one carries is exactly the absurdity that I'm talking about. The same applies with being 'french.'

Well, yes. As a socialist, I should not be surprised or alarmed by the way I feel, but the society here promotes the idea that you hav to be a part of a group. You have to be American. If you are not American, you are un-american...i think. Thats at east what I see. A smaller group of people here instead ally themselves with an ethnicity, or ethnicities (as I do to a certain degree) but not without much criticism from the community.

I just find it odd personally that I can attach myself with my ethnicities, though I try so hard to ally with my French side, yet the one I arguably put the most effort in is the one with the least result.

[ilv2]

Well, yes. As a socialist, I should not be surprised or alarmed by the way I feel, but the society here promotes the idea that you hav to be a part of a group. You have to be American. If you are not American, you are un-american...i think. Thats at east what I see. A smaller group of people here instead ally themselves with an ethnicity, or ethnicities (as I do to a certain degree) but not without much criticism from the community.

I just find it odd personally that I can attach myself with my ethnicities, though I try so hard to ally with my French side, yet the one I arguably put the most effort in is the one with the least result.

Okay sure. Except that socialism never viewed society in terms of ethnicity. Unless you're talking about the combinations of socialism and nationalism (i.e. the PS in France, or more extreme examples), who are the worst of the lot.

Indeed, that you find it odd that you try to identity yourself in accordance to an ethnic background or any categorized group at all simply affirms this. The feeling of being American and anti-american is plainly a farce as you pointed out, just as the the conviction that you'll eventually make a connection with your french 'heritage' would simply be buying into a repressive ideological blinder. I suppose most people are looking for that warm feeling in their tummy when they hear the star-spangled banner, or the marseillaise and clearly, one can appreciate the multitude of benefits that living in the US state or the French state can bring you. But to base one's person on a national-ethnic concept is, well, ridiculous as the concept itself.
However, to each his own...

[Catel]

Socialists and communists have never rejected the concept of nation ! Why otherwise would they talk about "Internationalism" ?

Cultural relativism is a recent, post-68 notion.


Besides, I DO feel French. :D

[Nanbawan]

bah the notion frenchness is both artificial and absurd in any case.

To some extent, certainly. But the actual reality and need to belong still has some legitimity.

[ilv2]

Socialists and communists have never rejected the concept of nation ! Why otherwise would they talk about "Internationalism" ?

Cultural relativism is a recent, post-68 notion.


Besides, I DO feel French. :D

right, internationalism in the sense of a worldwide movement of class struggle that occurs beyond borders. logically, the concept of the nation must be a fraud (to a socialist) because it is the bourgeois nation-state upon which the organs of private property are constructed and further legitimized.

To some extent, certainly. But the actual reality and need to belong still has some legitimity.

sure, but only if one actually buys into the idea of a national character and gives it actual power.

[AfrcnHrbMan]

right, internationalism in the sense of a worldwide movement of class struggle that occurs beyond borders. logically, the concept of the nation must be a fraud (to a socialist) because it is the bourgeois nation-state upon which the organs of private property are constructed and further legitimized.



sure, but only if one actually buys into the idea of a national character and gives it actual power.

You mean to tell me you don't believe in national character?

[ilv2]

IMO, that is exactly correct. The idea of national character is truly the most notable example of mythology pressed upon an individual. Rhetoric aside, the acceptance that the nation and its constituency possess a monopoly of certain characteristics that sets the group apart, or enables it to proclaim exceptionality, is essentially ideological self-deception.

[guignol]

i don't feel particularly american, or french, or dutch, or any nationality i've had or been close to.

but i did feel inordinately proud and happy when the RF decided i could be, that i was french. i'm proud of this country for all its faults and happy to live here and be part of it.

[squidward123]

I am with ilv2 on this.

I think that it's natural for me to be without any attachment to any particular country or group or ethnicity, because of the path I was taken along when growing up.

My parents are Sri Lankan (born and lived there for 30 odd years each). I was born there as well, but as a young kid lived in england for a couple of years and only 2-3 in Sri Lanka. Then we moved to the Seychelles which is where I grew up all through my childhood. There I went to an International School which ran under the British system with mostly British teachers. But through the school and country I learnt French (although I'm rusty now having been in NZ for almost a decade). My friends were the kids of expatriates like my parents, from many countries in the world. So I grew up feeling like the world was a small place and each country they came from became like a place down the road. And I had the 3 "base" languages. Sinhalese which I learnt first and good at through speaking at home and with parents, and then English which I'd call my first language as I learnt it from age 5 and am completely fluent at, and French which I am good at and can easily become completely fluent in with 1-2 months of living in France.

There's SL, England, Seychelles and now NZ. And I've travelled to several other countries as well for holidays etc.

I don't feel an attachment to any one place, but I feel like there's a part of each one (the good parts I want to take) in me. So I don't feel the need at all to be attached to one country or group to define myself.

Instead the person comes from personal development and inner-strength rather than ever looking to a country/group for pride, good feeling or identity.

That's personally how I think it should be, as the other route is pointless.

[Inara]

This is an interesting discussion. Personally speaking, I've been very fluid in terms of identifying with any sort of national identity. My parents are Bengali, I'm Bengali, through we've lived our entire lives in the US and are American citizens. But if anyone ever asked me "what" I considered myself, I wouldn't know what to say, except that I've never really thought of myself as an American or as a Bengali in the cultural sense. But I still want that elusive connection to a country and to feel like I belong somewhere.

It's for that reason that I decided to adopt France. I have no personal ties to it, have no French blood or even French neighbors, and took the language for a year in high school because there was no space for me in Latin class. But I admire the country and think that the US can learn a lot from them, fell in love with the culture when I visited it, and think that French society comes closest to the social ideals of what the 21st century should be like. I've always known that if I could live somewhere for my entire life, it would be France. I sometimes I feel like I am French, though I'm really not.

I don't even want to know what that says about me. :confused:

[squidward123]

it doesn't have to say anything about you...

i believe that you definine yourself by yourself...and most of this nationalistic stuff is only good for marketing and commercial purposes these days anyway. So it's not even as genuine as it used to be.

[SportBoy333]

I think saying you wanted to take Latin says it all. I didnt even know high schools offered it. You said Latin was full ? Kids were lining up to take Latin ??? WTF ?

[Inara]

I think saying you wanted to take Latin says it all. I didnt even know high schools offered it. You said Latin was full ? Kids were lining up to take Latin ??? WTF ?

It was a really popular class at my high school! The teacher was very popular whereas the French teacher was known to be a jerk. Also, the school I went to was particularly academic, and people believed the myth that taking Latin helps on the SATs.

My school offered five years of Latin as well as three AP Latin courses. I myself took two of those APs. I have to say, taking Latin was one of the best things I did for myself because it improved my grammar and spelling, and even better, it makes it easier for me to pick up certain languages.

[squidward123]

what is AP?