My first year coaching thread

[soccernutter]

Couple of comments/questions...

1)The defense discussion seems to have taken a turn for the more complicated. For who ever said that, in a sweeper system, the sweeper rotates with the marking back who then becomes the sweeper, is spot on. I was taught that way, but then I have always played 4-4-2 sweeper system. But remember, the idea is not to let the ball in the goal, and ultimate that is the goalies responsibality. He is the one who ultimately needs to guide his defenders. In my opinion, of course.

2)3-5-2 v. 4-4-2: Like it was said, the formation depends upon the players. And then, it depends upon the philosophy of the coach (defend, counter attack, attack, direct play, short pass, long ball, etc). I like a 3-5-2 because I think it allows for more individual play and flair rather than mechanized teamwork (no offense to anybody's coaching methods here). But, of course, I'm not a coach...:D

3)These 6 core players - how do they fit into the scheme of things (position, skill, etc)?

4)Has a team leader been identified yet (different from being the designated captian, but one of those as well- my club team after high school, I was captian, but our leader was a quiet Japanese guy with skill than anyone I've every played with or against)?

5)All the fitness work may be pushing the kids away - not enough time with the ball. I know I always looked forward to playing with the ball because I didn't have much skill that I knew I needed to learn, plus it got me involved with my teammates. If there is one consistancy that seems to be said here, it is gaining fitness with the ball, not without.

6)How often does the goalie show up, and how much specialized training does he get?

[boydreilly]

Originally posted by pething101
This team needs to trim some fat, physically and mentally.

We have one or two players that are being rather malcontent and it is spreading to the other players. I am not happy at all.

Well, with the number of players you have you can't cut them from the team, which is what I'd probably do. So, your only real option is to get them into the fold.

I'd take each one of them aside and talk BS to them. Tell them how important they are to team and how much they are contributing talent-wise. Get them to like you. Butter them up good. Here is an example: "You have some of the best off-ball movement I've ever seen in a player at your age." or "You're open field dribbling is easily the best on the team and they all know it." Then tell them how important it is that their attitude needs to be good since so many players look up to them.

The whole things is this; they have a bad attitude because they basically don't like you. Your speech will turn that around. They will now like you because you believe in them. They, also, will realize how wise you are for recognizing their talent. They will now follow your lead because you have in faith in them. They will not want to let you down.

Give it a shot.

[pething101]

Match tonight at 7 pm. Should have enough kids to play 11 and have a couple of reserves. Hopefully, a better performance from last Thursday but it is non conference so results are secondary.

[Bill Archer]

Originally posted by boydreilly

The whole things is this; they have a bad attitude because they basically don't like you.

While I don't necessarily disagree with yuor approach here, from years of hard-earned experience I would suggest that it most likely stems from the parents.

If the majority of the players are happy with you, IMO it's unlikely that a couple malcontents are bucking the trend on their own. Kids go with the flow.

The usual exception is when the parents are sitting around the dinner table bad-mouthing you. In fact, I'll bet you dinner that if there are two malcontents, their parents are friends and you'll see them chatting amiably while they're waiting to pick them up after practice.

This one is tough because the ones you need to get throught to are the parents. Were they close to the previous coach? Is somebodies' father a "soccer expert" who's showing off by putting down the stuff you're doing and the methods you use? Happens all the time.

See if you can coopt the parents somehow, particularly the fathers. Mothers as a rule (though not always) really don't care that much what you do as long as you seem to like their kid as a person.

Single out one of the fathers for a conversation sometime. See what kind of vibes you get. Engage him in a soccer-related discussion and see if he tries to impress you with how much he knows, or who he knows or whatever.

If he's an "expert" he'll spill the beans. He can't help himself. If this is what I think it is, this guy is easy. Listen to his wisdom, nod knowingly, treat his opinions with great respect.

Then figure out something for him to do. Is he physically adept enough to warm up your keepers? How about being a "referee liason" (my favorite) who makes sure the referee is contacted before the match, and has "everything he needs" during it.

One thing I'm sure of: These kids come by it honestly, ie at home, either from their parents or (less likely) because they bitch about you at home and the parents don't stop them.

Good parenting is:

"Look, Johnny, I understand you seem to have some differences with your coach. Tough beans, kid. This is life, and welcome. You may not like your teachers, you may not like your professors, you may not like your bosses or your sergeants or even your parents. Nobody cares and bitching doesn't change it or solve anything. You suck it up and make the best of it. Now don't let me hear that crap again."

Good luck, and be consoled by the thought that these kids DO come around sometimes. A couple of the best players I ever had were originally malcontents, including one whose parents filed written complaints and appeared before the board to complain about me being their kids' coach.

By the end of the season, that kid would have run through a wall for me, and his father would have kicked crap out of you if you said anything bad about me.

Just shows it's possible. Good luck.

[soccernutter]

Originally posted by Bill Archer



See if you can coopt the parents somehow, particularly the fathers. Mothers as a rule (though not always) really don't care that much what you do as long as you seem to like their kid as a person.



I HUGELY object to that statement, even in general. I understand that you're experiences may tell you that, I my experiences are such that mothers are at least involved/knowledgable if not more so than the fathers (because the mothers "support" their child/player). As an example, a mother of one of my teammates when I was in high school, single handedly got the coach fired! I understand you spoke from experience, but it is an over generalization.

[JohnW]

Originally posted by Coryattheplex


...In my opinion, the backs in a 3 man system don't have this luxurey because they must retain their shape for the whole game......if i'm wrong it's okay to tell me....thats why i started the discussion of my defensive assignments with the 3-5-2 in the first place.....i'm hungry to learn! Now please do me one favor, don't speak out of conjecture on this. I need someone who has played or coached this system at a higher level than me to tell me what to look for.

Keep in mind that just as you can implement a 4-4-2 in several ways (sweeper/stopper, flat, with/w-out marking, etc.), there are a variety of ways that you can implement the 3-5-2.

For example, when Brazil uses the 3-5-2, R. Carlos and Cafu function as wingbacks. In fact, sometimes you'll see the lineup as 5-3-2. Nevertheless, they both have great latitude to get up the flanks, but they also have defensive responsibilities.

Now shift to the US-Mexico game. The U.S. went with what were in effect three central defenders, two defensive midfielders in front of them and three more midfielders in front.

On right-side attacks, you saw Sanneh sliding out to tackle man with ball with Reyna tracking back to help. The two defensive midfielders, Mastroeni and O'Brien (?-can't remember now) smothered attacks up the middle.

The point is that these are two very different ways of using the 3-5-2. What makes it work is players who understand their responsibilities and then carry them out.

This is something that you as the coach decide, communicate and monitor.

Finally, I encourage you not to discourage (!) your defenders from venturing forward. You certainly want numbers back, but going back to the Brazil example, Lucio is very effective at getting forward from the central defender spot.

Best wishes.

jgw

[JohnW]

Originally posted by boydreilly

I'd take each one of them aside and talk BS to them. Tell them how important they are to team and how much they are contributing talent-wise. Get them to like you. Butter them up good. Here is an example: "You have some of the best off-ball movement I've ever seen in a player at your age." or "You're open field dribbling is easily the best on the team and they all know it." Then tell them how important it is that their attitude needs to be good since so many players look up to them.

The whole things is this; they have a bad attitude because they basically don't like you. Your speech will turn that around. They will now like you because you believe in them. They, also, will realize how wise you are for recognizing their talent. They will now follow your lead because you have in faith in them. They will not want to let you down.



You're kidding, right?

A player will not respect a coach who does not tell the truth. Period.

That doesn't mean that you have to be brutally honest in your evaluation. You can be honest and be positive without resorting to manipulation.

Example: "You've really improved this week. Excellent trap or much better trap or you're getting there."

I'm all for getting kids on board, and perhaps a good team talk is appropriate. "I know it's tough, but your hard work is going to pay off."

Or let them talk. Kids aren't stupid. They've got to know that it sucks having only six out for practice and then 11 for the games. Find a way to reward those players who have been faithful.

But whatever you do, DO NOT tell a kid something just so he will like you.

jgw

[blech]

Originally posted by Bill Archer


While I don't necessarily disagree with yuor approach here, from years of hard-earned experience I would suggest that it most likely stems from the parents.

If the majority of the players are happy with you, IMO it's unlikely that a couple malcontents are bucking the trend on their own. Kids go with the flow.



Maybe we all need a little more information. It wasn't so clear to me from the earlier posts that these "malcontents" have an issue with their assistant coach, or with the coach, or with anyone else. My initial reaction to it was simply that they weren't as interested in soccer as we are. There are any number of possible reasons for this, but certainly one is that they're not athletic and/or simply don't enjoy the game but they nonetheless are out there because they need the sports credit. This is JV, right, and it may be that they have no aspiration to move up to varsity, they just want to satisfy an athletic requirement. Does your school have such a requirement? What is the motivation for these kids to play?

This can definitely be a frustrating situation, and there isn't too much you can do other than hang in there, and do what you can to show them that the game is more enjoyable than they are giving it credit for. In this regard, I thought the suggestion to try to limit the running and involve more time with the ball was a good one. Try to make it more fun. In the end, however, I think the important thing is come to some understanding of what everyone's expectations are. In this situation, kicking players off the squad isn't an option, so it may be that it's more important to be accepting of the fact that you don't have 11 kids are not going to be Pele (or Landon), and don't even want to be.

I had a kid on a team recently who was clearly out there because his dad wanted him to be. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink, and that's exactly what it was like with this kid at both practices and games. He literally would keep checking his watch at practice and ask over and over again if it was over yet. I didn't push him too hard, and just kept encouraging him to work on his skills. He scored his only goal of the year in the last game of the season, sticking his toe out and placing a cross right in the corner. I'm pretty sure his eyes were closed, and he actually tripped and fell down as he ran back to midfield to celebrate with the rest of his equally surprised teammates. Even with this culmination of the season, he didn't sign back up the next year.

I'm not sure what the moral of the story is or if there even is one. I just think it's important to recognize and understand that each of your kids is going to have different objectives and goals, and that the coach is going to impact each of them in different ways. And there isn't necessarily anything wrong with that.

[pething101]

Originally posted by boydreilly

The whole things is this; they have a bad attitude because they basically don't like you. Your speech will turn that around. They will now like you because you believe in them. They, also, will realize how wise you are for recognizing their talent. They will now follow your lead because you have in faith in them. They will not want to let you down.

Give it a shot.

I think the major problem is respect for the head coach and by circumstance me as the assistant. For various reasons, I dont think the players respect the coach at all and some have begun to tune him out allready. I wont go into the reasons but, to me, they all stem from not having a professional attitude. Read what you will into that.

Being his assistant, what he does is a reflection on me even though I would do things very differently if I had my own team .

I am not worried about being liked or not being liked. To me, that is a non isssue. Respect, however is somthing that is important and I dont think it is there. The crappy thing is, once you lose it, it is a very hard thing to earn back.

[Alberto]

pething you need to address this issue with the head coach first. Tell him of your concerns in a non-critical fashion. Discuss the issues regarding the players. Formulate a strategy and execute it. It's best to have individual discussions with the players and get the issues out on the table and addressed. Do it quickly before it becomes a bigger issue or it festers over time.

[pething101]

Originally posted by Alberto
pething you need to address this issue with the head coach first. Tell him of your concerns in a non-critical fashion. Discuss the issues regarding the players. Formulate a strategy and execute it. It's best to have individual discussions with the players and get the issues out on the table and addressed. Do it quickly before it becomes a bigger issue or it festers over time.

I believe the Coach had a discussion with one player and his parent. Hopefully we will see some inprovement in him.

[pething101]

On a lighter note, it is hotter than heck out there. Close to 100 degrees; hope it cools off a bit by 7 pm.

[Bill Archer]

If the issues some people have are with your head coach, then you really ARE in a delicate position here.

You're right that, to a degree, the stuff he does will reflect on you.

As far as is possible, you have to protect your own reputation.

At the same time though, you have a responsibility to show loyalty to the head coach. If you can't bring yourself to do that, then quit.

Let me say that, with all due respect to my great and good friend Alberto, while it always sounds like a good idea, I have found that the "Let's all sit down and air out our differences" deal is a recipe for disaster. The Head Coach has a right to expect you to be on his side, but if you don't agree with him then to do so would be lying and that's a bad idea as well.

In short, all you'll really be accomplishing is putting YOURSELF on the hot seat. Not much else good is likely to come of it.

A couple months ago, at the Superintendants' request, I helped interview candidates for Head Coach at our High School after the last guy unexpectedly moved back East.

One very strong candidate was a current assistant to a well-known area Coach. He was very forthright in saying that, while he worked very hard and felt he had done a good job, he didn't agree with a lot of his guy's methods, and explained in detail some of the things he'd do differently.

He was very, very careful to be positive about it, and came off very well.

He came in second for our job (we hired a guy with 17 years experience and two state semis instead) but I just heard he got another head job at a small school in the next county.

The head guy is the boss. Be very careful not to do anything that could be construed as undermining him, and above all don't let yourself get sucked into some "clearing the air" type meeting where you will be forced to say what you really think.

Honesty is great, but you can't win this one.

[Coryattheplex]

In regards to my wing backs, trust me, THESE kids need to stay at home and not wander forward. I do not have a single back, central or otherwise that will be able to contribute to the offense this year by going forward. I'm working hard to develop the younger players, and I will have the chance to coach the middle school program in the spring, but this is my first year with this team, and it's too late to teach that detailed kind of skill work now.....I just want them to pressure shots and passes, step in and win the ball where they can, and then possess and distribute the ball with confindence. That's what they are capable of, nothing more I assure you.

[Elroy]

Originally posted by Bill Archer
If the issues some people have are with your head coach, then you really ARE in a delicate position here.

You're right that, to a degree, the stuff he does will reflect on you.

As far as is possible, you have to protect your own reputation.

At the same time though, you have a responsibility to show loyalty to the head coach. If you can't bring yourself to do that, then quit.

Let me say that, with all due respect to my great and good friend Alberto, while it always sounds like a good idea, I have found that the "Let's all sit down and air out our differences" deal is a recipe for disaster. The Head Coach has a right to expect you to be on his side, but if you don't agree with him then to do so would be lying and that's a bad idea as well.

In short, all you'll really be accomplishing is putting YOURSELF on the hot seat. Not much else good is likely to come of it.

A couple months ago, at the Superintendants' request, I helped interview candidates for Head Coach at our High School after the last guy unexpectedly moved back East.

One very strong candidate was a current assistant to a well-known area Coach. He was very forthright in saying that, while he worked very hard and felt he had done a good job, he didn't agree with a lot of his guy's methods, and explained in detail some of the things he'd do differently.

He was very, very careful to be positive about it, and came off very well.

He came in second for our job (we hired a guy with 17 years experience and two state semis instead) but I just heard he got another head job at a small school in the next county.

The head guy is the boss. Be very careful not to do anything that could be construed as undermining him, and above all don't let yourself get sucked into some "clearing the air" type meeting where you will be forced to say what you really think.

Honesty is great, but you can't win this one.

Absolutely correct. As an assistant you should be loyal to the head coach. That should not stop you from trying to make suggestions or air out some differences.

If your head coach is a jerk about that, you should stay quiet, finish the season and then resign or move on to something else. Above all, don't bad mouth your boss. You never gain stature that way.

[Coryattheplex]

Originally posted by Elroy


Absolutely correct. As an assistant you should be loyal to the head coach. That should not stop you from trying to make suggestions or air out some differences.

If your head coach is a jerk about that, you should stay quiet, finish the season and then resign or move on to something else. Above all, don't bad mouth your boss. You never gain stature that way.

I agree with this P, undercutting your boss in any job is a bad idea. It doesn't mean you have to agree with his methods, or his mannerisms. I'll tell you what I did in your situation last year, I made myself the team bitching wall. Whenever the boys were really mad, I let them come vent to me, and when they were done I would highlight all of the good reasons why coach was saying or doing whatever is was that was upseting them. I was always careful not to seem as though I was agreeing with their emotions, even if I did, but only that I could empathize with them and wanted to see them work their way out of their frustration. It takes a subtle touch, but you seem like the type who endeavors to get inside of your kids heads.

[JohnW]

Originally posted by Coryattheplex
...I just want them to pressure shots and passes, step in and win the ball where they can, and then possess and distribute the ball with confindence. That's what they are capable of, nothing more I assure you.

I guess I misunderstood your other post. I thought you had questions about how to implement the 3-5-2.

[Coryattheplex]

Originally posted by JohnW


I guess I misunderstood your other post. I thought you had questions about how to implement the 3-5-2.

Defensively yes....Im looking to coach the 3 backs on the finer points.

[Bill Archer]

Originally posted by Coryattheplex


I agree with this P, undercutting your boss in any job is a bad idea. It doesn't mean you have to agree with his methods, or his mannerisms. I'll tell you what I did in your situation last year, I made myself the team bitching wall. Whenever the boys were really mad, I let them come vent to me, and when they were done I would highlight all of the good reasons why coach was saying or doing whatever is was that was upseting them. I was always careful not to seem as though I was agreeing with their emotions, even if I did, but only that I could empathize with them and wanted to see them work their way out of their frustration. It takes a subtle touch, but you seem like the type who endeavors to get inside of your kids heads.

Tremendous. First rate stuff.

[pething101]

A 6-0 victory for the good guys.

Senior striker nets a hat trick.

A better performance but still nothing to write home to mom about.