My first year coaching thread

[pething101]

Originally posted by jmeissen0
sounds good then


much better than what you had been fearing, methinks


congrats on the first game... screw the loss factor, just having done it with them and seen hope part deserves congrats

That was about what I expected. I figured five or six. We did out shoot them but none were really threatening.

[pething101]

Originally posted by SCoach
Go here and join:

http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~dgraham/coach.html


This is the semi-official international coaches mailing list. You'll find everything here from first-timers to long time pros. Every subject is convered from organizing a team, to developing a league, and from u6 to pro players.

I've been a member for many years and some of the best high school and college coaches in the country are on it.

Done. Thanks for the heads up.

[pething101]

Originally posted by Coryattheplex


Listen closely to this guy P, make the boys understand that being a team is like being family. They may hate each other in the off season for various pubescent reasons, but when the team is together for training or games, they have to stick together no matter what, because each other is all they're gonna have. Getting the kids connected with pizza nights at the local Pizza Hut, or a Saturday movie trip is gonna drive home the point that they're to act like brothers....fight like hell amongst themselves sometimes, but nobody, and I mean nobody messes with their brothers. This will have a profound effect on their work rate, and you as their team "father" will have a more open forum to teach the game.

The Head coach has mentioned this. A breakfast at Golden Corral or something like that. As far as team chemistry goes, we have mostly a pretty good bunch of kids. We have one loner who I could see cause some dissension. To make matters worse, he might be our most talented player but he certainly has no idea how to be a team player.

[pething101]

Originally posted by Coryattheplex


Oh, and P..........sorry for stealing your thread for a minute :)

Steal away. I am learning stuff from your posts.

[blech]

Originally posted by Coryattheplex
hey blech, gimme something else out of that noggin of yours for say.......Defensive orginization of my backs and def mids.....we're playin a 3-5-2 with two def mids to do the workhorse stuff,


Cory, I don't know how much help I'm going to be to you on this one. When I've played, it has generally been in a 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 (in both formations, we used a deep sweeper who has carte blanche to push forward on attack when appropriate), and I have typically used a 4-3-3 when I've coached (although I've tinkered some with a 3-4-3 with a diamond midfield which can effectively become a 4-3-3 on defense and a 3-3-4 on offense if the 2 center mids are strong enough). So, I'm familiar with the 3-5-2 from watching WC games, etc., but not much more. I'm nonetheless certainly happy to discuss it as it appears to be more and more common. (And, it might not be a bad idea to start a full thread on formations if P gets tired of us).

In watching the WC games (particularly the US-Mexico game), it seemed that the 3 defenders have their primary focus in the middle. Then, depending on whether the midfield support came from the deep mids or some hustling outside mids (often depending on where the attack initiated), then the defenders could and would shift to the outside to pick up overlapping mids on the other team but only once the middle was secure. The US got such strong defense from the mids on the outside, that it allowed us to pack the middle very effectively.

Tell me more about what you're doing with it. What are the 3 defenders responsibilities? Assuming the other side is in a 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 themselves, are 2 picking up the forwards with man-to-man responsibilities and the other sweeping (and then the deep mids picking up the first mids coming through from the other team)? Or is it more flexible and more of an amoeba-like zone? My impression is that it requires a lot of communication and sophistication because there will need to be a lot of switching matchups and shifting, depending on where the attack comes from and which mids are back. Then again, maybe I'm making more of this than needs be. Maybe the 3-5-2 has just evolved from the 4-4-2 as it has become less necessary to keep the 4th defender back when the other team only has 2 (or in some case only 1) forwards.

[pething101]

The day after our first scrimage, we only have 8 show up. It was a good practice. Worked on fitness for a good bit. Also on set pieces such as fre kicks from a defensive standpoint and corner kicks from a defensive standpoint.

Fitness wise:

To warm up, I had them run the width of the field, back and forth equals one. Did several reps, trying to implement different elements each time, such as back pedaling, side stepping, heading to left and right and dive and roll.

Coach then did the Cooper test.

After Cooper test, Coach set out a 25 ro so yard line, and had wind sprints three at a time. Next, back pedaling sprints and then side steps.

Then shortened it to about 7 yards and did the same thing. Each was about 5 reps. Then ran the stairs of the stadium.

Then worked on positioning for various set situations.

[pething101]

Ok, this is going to be a stupid question but what is the difference between a sweeper and a stopper?

In our scrimage yesterday we had both playing in a 4-4-2 line up. I thought they were much the same thing but I must be mistaken.

[jmeissen0]

Originally posted by Turk from Pigs Eye


You mean second last defender, of course.


most people don't count the goalie... i'm just looking for something quick and easy

complicating it by saying 2 defenders between him and the goal isn't going to help too much (note that doesn't necessarily mean the keeper)

[schmuckatelli]

Originally posted by pething101
Ok, this is going to be a stupid question but what is the difference between a sweeper and a stopper?

If your defensive four play in the shape of a diamond:

-------------GK
----------Sweeper
Right Back-----------Left Back
----------Stopper

The one in back, closest to the goalkeeper is the sweeper. The sweeper's job is to organize the defense provide cover to the marking backs. The stopper plays out in front, causing trouble by delaying the attack, tracking runners, cutting off passing angles.

The other way to play four in the back (and more in favor these days) is known as a flat back four:
------------------GK
------Center Back---Center Back
Right Back--------------------Left Back

Actually, "flat" is a bit of a misnomer, because usually you'll see more of a bowl shape. In a flat back four, the defenders mark and provide cover wherever the attack occurs. The idea is to funnel the attack, so the defense can win by eliminating space and passing angles.

It's a little easier to teach younger players how to play a sweeper/stopper system, since it's a little less sophisticated. But if your you have good, steady defenders who communicate and can work well together, try teaching a flat back four, because it's harder to beat.

[soccernutter]

Originally posted by pething101
Ok, this is going to be a stupid question but what is the difference between a sweeper and a stopper?

In our scrimage yesterday we had both playing in a 4-4-2 line up. I thought they were much the same thing but I must be mistaken.

nice diagram by shmuck, and better meanings. Simply put, the sweeper sweeps up the trash that gets through, and the stopper stops the ball/player (depending on the tactics) from getting through.

On my club team right out of HS, we played the sweeper/stopper back 4. I could have been either, but I played sweeper since I was a better organizer, and the other guy played stopper since he had better ball skills and could go forward easier. Keep in mind, a sweeper could also be used in a back three as well.

[Alberto]

Originally posted by pething101
The day after our first scrimage, we only have 8 show up. It was a good practice. Worked on fitness for a good bit. Also on set pieces such as fre kicks from a defensive standpoint and corner kicks from a defensive standpoint.

Fitness wise:

To warm up, I had them run the width of the field, back and forth equals one. Did several reps, trying to implement different elements each time, such as back pedaling, side stepping, heading to left and right and dive and roll.

Coach then did the Cooper test.

After Cooper test, Coach set out a 25 ro so yard line, and had wind sprints three at a time. Next, back pedaling sprints and then side steps.

Then shortened it to about 7 yards and did the same thing. Each was about 5 reps. Then ran the stairs of the stadium.

Then worked on positioning for various set situations.

After conditioning which sounds like it took the better part of an hour did he do drills were they played with the ball?

[pething101]

Thanks for the diagram and explaination.

I think I am kinda of partial to the flat back option. Not sure we have anyone with the organzational skills to play sweeper.

What do ya'll think about the 3-5-2 that the US played against Mexico. I think that might be better for us b/c we have a couple of kids that have some good wheels and lots of energy to play out on the wings. They dont have a lot of skill but they have plenty of pace. This would also allow us to put our better players in a more central position.

Any thoughts on the 3-5-2 are welcome.

[pething101]

Originally posted by Alberto


After conditioning which sounds like it took the better part of an hour did he do drills were they played with the ball?

Nope. We worked on positioning without the ball. I dont think we used a ball except to practice reacting to set pieces.

[Alberto]

Originally posted by pething101


Nope. We worked on positioning without the ball. I dont think we used a ball except to practice reacting to set pieces.

Nicely mention that certain players need more time working on dribbling and passing skills and suggest trying some drills that incorporate conditioning with skills work.

I am not happy with this guy. They are not going to be ready to play a real game and succeed.

[Elroy]

Originally posted by pething101
Thanks for the diagram and explaination.

I think I am kinda of partial to the flat back option. Not sure we have anyone with the organzational skills to play sweeper.

What do ya'll think about the 3-5-2 that the US played against Mexico. I think that might be better for us b/c we have a couple of kids that have some good wheels and lots of energy to play out on the wings. They dont have a lot of skill but they have plenty of pace. This would also allow us to put our better players in a more central position.

Any thoughts on the 3-5-2 are welcome. With the bozo you have as a head coach, I suggest a 5-4-1 double sweeper with a lot of counters.

[Coryattheplex]

Originally posted by blech

Maybe the 3-5-2 has just evolved from the 4-4-2 as it has become less necessary to keep the 4th defender back when the other team only has 2 (or in some case only 1) forwards.

No way the 3-5-2 hasn't revolutionized the game in my opinion, it's the opportunity for a medium skilled, medium athletic, medium creativity team to lump all of their collective efforts into a well organized system that actually beats "better" teams. Alot of people call it an offensive lineup, with only three backs, but they're wrong. Taught the right way , my teams in the last year have been playing phenomenal defense.....look, where is the most dangerous place for the other team to beat your players one on one.....the central third right? If you get beat there, pass or dribble, it means someone will have to step away from their assignment and pick up yours......which is precisely when the ball gets passed to the newly wide open guy. The 3-5-2 clogs the middle up, and gives the opposition two choices, force the pass or dribble through our best defended space, or go outside. By inviting the outside, though you have to be prepared for one thing.....you'd better put your smartest, toughest minded, most diciplined, sneaky and fast player in that spot. For so long we have dumped these players into the middle and asked them to "create" in the middle of the busiest part of the field, where you have the least amount of time, while still playing against "better" teams. These players have been choked in there. The 3-5-2 allows me to put a tough minded group of ball winners into the middle of the field who know that offensively their first look is to the outside where those IMPACT players can have space and time to create......I love this stuff man!

[pething101]

I think that if I were to use the 3-5-2, we could certainly have a strong central core. But the players that I might have out wide are not the most skilled nor most soccer experienced. But with some hustle and effort, I think that there pace and energy would help us out a lot.

[boydreilly]

Originally posted by pething101
I think that if I were to use the 3-5-2, we could certainly have a strong central core. But the players that I might have out wide are not the most skilled nor most soccer experienced. But with some hustle and effort, I think that there pace and energy would help us out a lot.

Don't worry about the sweeper position being the the "organizer". A sweeper gives you a plug in the dike when things go wrong. While he is usually the voice of the defense, the stopper or goalie can do this too.

Also, explain that when the sweeper does clean up, the person he is cleaning up for is now the sweeper. Thus, if the right back gets beat, the sweeper comes to the right back spot and the right back now heads toward the center to look for other breaks.

While your defenders might not be savy soccer wise, they really don't need to know much more than this to be good. If they can command the thinking involved in a 4 man back line, the only other thing they need to work on is getting the ball out there to the midfielders.

[pething101]

Damn, 7 am practices.

[pething101]

Six kids showed up. Those six are going to be the heart of this team.