My first year coaching thread

[Elizabeth]

Reality Al...female and male....venus vs. mars. You are right by a longer shot than you would know. You aren't female for one:)

No way do you coach them the same. We are different than men and boys. I've coached both....and I've always played...so have my brothers, so I know from several perspectives.

When it gets to the US Nats level...there are still differences. We ARE different. this is a new post. And I believe strongly in the differences and effectivenes of coaching stratedgies with gender.

Is this the first time a coach has asked for advice on this board? Should be on a talk show or something.

[m-chill]

Originally posted by Elroy

Wow! You're a real salesman, I bet your kids just love to hear you tell them that they're not good enough!!

i believe in being honest and forthcoming with my players. believe me most of them don't need me to tell them where they stand. and i think its a courtesy to let them know why they are not playing with the varsity team. i've never had a play not be able "to handle the truth". i've had a few disagree with my assessment, but that’s another thing all together.

Originally posted by Elroy

You have made one stupendous miscalculation. That is that somehow learning and winning CAN'T go hand in hand. What happens in your program when the players make varsity and winning becomes important - do you stop teaching them?

A successful JV coach finds a balance between team success and individual development. Really good coaches accomplish both.

bottom line-winning at JV usually has very little to do with the coach. basically your stuck with what you get. if your lucky to have 100 kids try out and you get the 23-46 kids your team will most likely have many more quality players than a coach in a program where they have 40 kids try out. most of the kids are on the team for a year or 2 and you've no contact with them before hand. so coaches at the JV level are at the mercy of their areas club ball development.

so coaches that have the need to win end up using tactics to stay in games against teams that are more skilled then them. these tactics (we all know what they are) hamper player development. if you think a player learning how to play tactically when they are over matched is development than we have a different view of what development is.

good coaches get the most out of their players. a win and lost record is not indicative of that. player progress is.

[Elroy]

Originally posted by m-chill
Blah-blah......

Nice bait, good troll - I bit. It took me a while to figure out that you're not here to discuss, just rant.

[Elroy]

Originally posted by Elizabeth
Reality Al...female and male....venus vs. mars. You are right by a longer shot than you would know. You aren't female for one:)

No way do you coach them the same. We are different than men and boys. I've coached both....and I've always played...so have my brothers, so I know from several perspectives.

When it gets to the US Nats level...there are still differences. We ARE different. this is a new post. And I believe strongly in the differences and effectivenes of coaching stratedgies with gender.

Is this the first time a coach has asked for advice on this board? Should be on a talk show or something.

Nice pun! But... where are you going with this? Al can't know b/c he is not female. But, you know. This is b/c you have brothers? Are we traveling the road to men supervising men and women supervising women kinda like modern soccer Shakers?

I'll stand on my previous response. Variances among individuals WITHIN a gender are at least as great as differences ACROSS genders. If you employ "feminine" strategies with all women, you risk offending many. There are cultural differences, but it is dangerous to rely upon them.

There are also many coaching practices that are common to men that need to be re-examined in light of social and cultural change.

I believe that successful coaching depends on melding individuals into a team. That requires a recognition of individual needs and a gradual agreement among all concerned of what the parameters of the team relationship will be.

[m-chill]

Originally posted by Elroy


Nice bait, good troll - I bit. It took me a while to figure out that you're not here to discuss, just rant.

elroy> all i have done is defend my original statement to perthing that his main focus should be to develop players and not worry about win loss records. you have disagreed with these statements and argued otherwise. and i have disagreed and argued with your statements. if thats trolling, fine. i realy wasn't talking to you in the 1st place.

[soccernutter]

Coaches - this is a clinic, not a seminar. If you want to discuss diferences between men and women in soccer, please go down the hall to "arguements."

pething - great result for your team. But, more importantly, how did they look as a team?

[dude8]

hey pething,

career change=pething as head coach

head coach as jv coach

7-0 ought to tell you that you have done your job well, and your team is responding,and that maybe varsity is going to poach your players. keep up the good work.

fellow coach

[Elroy]

QUOTE]Originally posted by soccernutter
Coaches - this is a clinic, not a seminar. If you want to discuss diferences between men and women in soccer, please go down the hall to "arguements."

pething - great result for your team. But, more importantly, how did they look as a team? [/QUOTE]

This thread is a running news report and a chance to share ideas. If you want to be a moderator, apply for the job.

You're right in one sense, I'd rather keep discussion of differences in male and female athletes to another thread. I just have a pet peeve about people who try to make coaching an arcane art.

You're wrong if you think that a sharing of drills alone will really help anyone. A coach without a vision of the game will never be successful. It is important to view drills and games in the context of what you want to accomplish on the field. Everything a coach does in practice should be directed towards communicating a picture of this vision. At the high school age, players should be allowed to contribute to the picture as well. If you can get your players to compose that picture for themselves, you will be twice as effective.

In the movie " Patton " a soldier is asked why he was sleeping on the floor. He answered, " I was trying to get some sleep, Sir. " Patton replied, " Well get back down there, son, you're the only son of a b*tch in this headquarters who knows what he's trying to do! ".

Coaches need to know that.

[pething101]

Originally posted by dude8
hey pething,

career change=pething as head coach

head coach as jv coach

7-0 ought to tell you that you have done your job well, and your team is responding,and that maybe varsity is going to poach your players. keep up the good work.

fellow coach

That is the pisser part. Head coach said he was going to take my #10, kid has gotten some serious understanding of how the game is played. That would really bite.

On the other hand, I found a sweeper and I think he is going to do a bang up job. Also, a stellar keeper has shown up as well.

No practice tomorrow and we play Terry Sanford on Monday. Could be an ass whooping.

[pething101]

Originally posted by soccernutter

pething - great result for your team. But, more importantly, how did they look as a team?

I thought they passed the ball well and for the first time they seemed to understand the concept of spacing.

Digressed a bit yesterday but circumstances beyond my control were to blame for that. Today was much better.

[Elroy]

Originally posted by pething101


That is the pisser part. Head coach said he was going to take my #10, kid has gotten some serious understanding of how the game is played. That would really bite.

On the other hand, I found a sweeper and I think he is going to do a bang up job. Also, a stellar keeper has shown up as well.

No practice tomorrow and we play Terry Sanford on Monday. Could be an ass whooping.

That's the tough part of the job - allowing players to move on. Still, it should be a source of great satisfaction that you had a role in his success.

As to the job change. We need our best coaches at the developmental level. If you get promoted, make sure you get a good replacement for you.

Sounds like your success has helped your recruiting - keep up the good work.

[pething101]

Originally posted by Elroy


That's the tough part of the job - allowing players to move on. Still, it should be a source of great satisfaction that you had a role in his success.



I wish I could say I had a role in his success but he was pretty good when I got him, I was surprised when the head coach allowed him to play JV to begin with even though he is in the 9th grade.

Still, I have seen some inmprovment in my other kids which makes me happy. If I can get a couple to some summer camps over the next couple of years, I think there are some scholarships waiting for them.

[boydreilly]

Originally posted by pething101


I wish I could say I had a role in his success but he was pretty good when I got him, I was surprised when the head coach allowed him to play JV to begin with even though he is in the 9th grade.

Still, I have seen some inmprovment in my other kids which makes me happy. If I can get a couple to some summer camps over the next couple of years, I think there are some scholarships waiting for them.

If he is in the 9th grade is it really in the kid's best interest to move up? Granted his skills may be up with the older kids; wouldn't it be better for the kid to develop some leadership skills first? And maybe the kid will lose confidence when he goes up against bigger kids.

Obviously, I don't know the kid. But, I think these things need to be considered before he moves up. And you, as a JV coach, should be able to put your foot down if you don't think he should move up yet.

[pething101]

Originally posted by boydreilly


If he is in the 9th grade is it really in the kid's best interest to move up? Granted his skills may be up with the older kids; wouldn't it be better for the kid to develop some leadership skills first? And maybe the kid will lose confidence when he goes up against bigger kids.

Obviously, I don't know the kid. But, I think these things need to be considered before he moves up. And you, as a JV coach, should be able to put your foot down if you don't think he should move up yet.

In this situtation, I dont think I have too much say in the matter. The varsity coach has already taken the sweeper mentioned previously in this thread.

[Xscape]

First, the varsity coach is the head of the program and pething101 is the assistant coach. In charge of JV, but still the head coach's assistant.
No offense to you pething101. I just think some of this advice doesn't take into account the reality of the situation. I don't think I need to tell you what an awkward position you are in. But I don't think everyone here understands that.

Another thing is, it's not so cut and dried, black and white, or whatever, that the varsity coach is so bad. Pething is there, but from the outside this school (Smith) has always done fairly well in soccer, in spite of the fact that it is, as pething said, kind of an inner city school. I know that we (at the middle school) play their feeder middle school every year and they are a joke. So considering the talent they have coming in they are doing pretty well.

Anyway, keep telling us about the progress, and the story of the season. That's what is fascinating to me about this thread. And good luck against Terry Sanford.

[boydreilly]

Originally posted by Xscape
First, the varsity coach is the head of the program and pething101 is the assistant coach. In charge of JV, but still the head coach's assistant.
No offense to you pething101. I just think some of this advice doesn't take into account the reality of the situation. I don't think I need to tell you what an awkward position you are in. But I don't think everyone here understands that.


Not all JV programs are the same. In many programs they actually give the JV coach some authority over decisions being made. When I was in school, the varsity coach would request a player be sent up. He wouldn't just take a player whether the JV coach wanted him to or not.

[blech]

Originally posted by boydreilly


Not all JV programs are the same. In many programs they actually give the JV coach some authority over decisions being made. When I was in school, the varsity coach would request a player be sent up. He wouldn't just take a player whether the JV coach wanted him to or not.

I'm guessing the use of word "many" here is relatively small percentagewise. The head coach of the varsity program typically gets to pick the best kids for his/her team, and to alter those decisions as the season goes on if kids on JV are improving (or were simply misjudged in the first place) or visa versa for kids on varsity. That's how it was for me when I played hs ball 20+ years ago, and when I coached at that level. And, in my opinion, that how it should be.

Please don't misunderstand me. A wise Varsity coach is going to solicit the input of the JV coach in making the decision. And, if the JV coach had good reasons for suggesting that a kid not move up, the coach might defer to the JV coach. But, kind of by definition, the JV team is there to support the Varsity. Certainly the roll is to develop players. And, if the head coach thinks this one is ready, the player can be brought up anytime. Period. (And, although perhaps they don't think about it correctly, but that is what most kids are going to want - say, being the last guy on the Varsity, rather than the star of the JV).

Bottom line, I don't think you should put your foot down. You are right not to make any demands. But, keep an eye on the situation. We had a 9th grader who played on the Varsity one season. He was athletically able, and it worked out fine. But, there are any number of issues that could still crop up, from how the kid is developing competing against older players, how he is being treated by his teammates, how much playing time he is getting, etc. If after a few games/weeks/etc you think the kid may be better off coming back to JV, explain your reasoning to the coach, but make sure the decision is being made in the best interest of the kid, not the JV, and accept the head coach's decision, even if you disagree with it.

[pething101]

Originally posted by Xscape
First, the varsity coach is the head of the program and pething101 is the assistant coach. In charge of JV, but still the head coach's assistant.
No offense to you pething101. I just think some of this advice doesn't take into account the reality of the situation. I don't think I need to tell you what an awkward position you are in. But I don't think everyone here understands that.

Another thing is, it's not so cut and dried, black and white, or whatever, that the varsity coach is so bad. Pething is there, but from the outside this school (Smith) has always done fairly well in soccer, in spite of the fact that it is, as pething said, kind of an inner city school. I know that we (at the middle school) play their feeder middle school every year and they are a joke. So considering the talent they have coming in they are doing pretty well.

Anyway, keep telling us about the progress, and the story of the season. That's what is fascinating to me about this thread. And good luck against Terry Sanford.

I would not say that the varsity coach is a bad coach. I think we do some different things as far as player management go. Smith has done pretty well considering what they have to work with and he is the sole reason for that. He certainly knows more about soccer than I do.

Monday againt Terry Sanford will be ugly both at the JV and Varsity level.

[pething101]

Caoch asked me today about my #10.

I told him that I thought he could handle the on field aspect of playing at the varsity level. I also told him that I dont want him on Varsity b/c it would expose him to some players on that team that have a very negative attitude.

I think he is gone. Time to try to figure out how to replace him.

[bungadiri]

Originally posted by Elroy


That's the tough part of the job - allowing players to move on. Still, it should be a source of great satisfaction that you had a role in his success.

As to the job change. We need our best coaches at the developmental level. If you get promoted, make sure you get a good replacement for you.

Sounds like your success has helped your recruiting - keep up the good work.
This sounds right to me. Plus, letting people move on when they're ready is important to keeping that talent moving into the pipeline. If you develop the rep. of trying to hold onto kids even though they're ready to move, that could be a problem in the future.

Good luck playing your alma mater.