My first year coaching thread

[pething101]

Originally posted by Grady08
My one comment would be this..a practice from 4 until 6:30 is way too long for these kids...even if you have only had one week of practice and such...the ideal time shoudl be an hour to and hour and a half at the most...for the length of time that you have there, the kids will get bored and worn out and there's a better chance for injury as a result...

Peace

I generally go from about 4 pm to 6 pm. Lots of water breaks and usually about 30 minutes of playing some sort side.

[pething101]

Originally posted by JohnW


I'm not sure why you have concerns about entrusting a player with a sweeper's responsibility at their level. Part of your responsibility as coach is to challenge/help the players to raise their level of play.

I suggest taking a player who is coachable and has good decision-making ability and giving him the responsibility to organize the defense, to provide cover for other defenders and to work the ball out to the flanks.

Whereas at higher levels of play the sweeper is one of the most skilled players, you will often notice at the high school (and by extension JV) level, sweepers whose strongest characteristics are their ability to make good decisions and make up for other's defensive mistakes.

Besides, I would think it would be hard to effectively employ a flat-back four with such a young team.

Just my 2¢.

jgw

I think my concerns stem from the fact I have never done this before and I dont want to get destroyed every game. Vainity.

Still learning this whole thing. Gotta let go of that mentality.

[Elizabeth]

Somebody said "her " as a response to a sweeper issue.

i haven't read all of this thread...is it girls or guys? BIG giant difference.

Still..I thought it was high school boys. If so...sweeper isn't something you pick up easily at this level. He/she either played it in club or not. I think you are expecting WAAYYYYY too much out of your kids.

Relax, make sure they have fun...and winning is good....but learning and getting together as a team is more important if they are as green as you make it sound.

Just saw the last response...you NEED to let go of thinking this is about YOU. This is about the kids...you had your chance. it's their turn now. Give them the opportunity. Novody cares about what you do...just don't mistreat them...give them a chance to shine. Respect them, and they will respect you.

[Elroy]

Originally posted by Elizabeth
Somebody said "her " as a response to a sweeper issue.

i haven't read all of this thread...is it girls or guys? BIG giant difference.

I'm certain that this discussion has been made a thread somewhere, but I just don't buy into this concept. I've coached males and females at every age level for over twenty years and just haven't experienced anything other than minor cultural differences. I think that making some sort of major mystery out of gender coaching differences is harmful b/c it hammers in stereotypes.

From a management view, both genders have many of the same motivations and variances are greater due to individuality than to gender identity. By this I mean that a "one size fits all" management style is no more effective within a gender than across genders.

From a physical perspective, athletes are athletes. One cannot expect to generalize within a gender anymore that one can across genders. If women and girls are not as quick, fast, or strong in general as men, they are still quick, fast, or strong in relation to their opponents. Any coach still has to deal with matchups.

Yes, there are differences - mostly cultural - that a coach must look out for. But it is dangerous to allow even those stereotypes to direct your coaching style. Just teach the game and be sensitive to the needs of your players. You'll have success regardless of gender.

Originally posted by Elizabeth
Still..I thought it was high school boys. If so...sweeper isn't something you pick up easily at this level. He/she either played it in club or not. I think you are expecting WAAYYYYY too much out of your kids.

I think that a sweeper is the easiest defensive scheme to pick up. It is most difficult to teach players of this age a zonal flat defense b/c it requires that ALL the backs read and communicate. It is also hard to get them to develop the confidence to trust each other. A sweeper satisfies the player's need to have clearly defined jobs; and leaves the coach with only one player to worry about. If you have players of limited experience or wildly disparate abilities, a sweeper allows you to plug the dike. B/C it limits the roles of players, more sophisticated teams seldom employ them. One way of bridging this gap is to train your sweeper to play as flat as possible. Teach them to read the technical and visual cues of your opponents game so that they can better anticipate the need to drop back and you will gain some of the benefits of a flatter defensive organization while retaining the organizational benefit of clearly designated responsibilities.

Originally posted by Elizabeth
Relax, make sure they have fun...and winning is good....but learning and getting together as a team is more important if they are as green as you make it sound.

Good advice.

Originally posted by Elizabeth
Just saw the last response...you NEED to let go of thinking this is about YOU. This is about the kids...you had your chance. it's their turn now. Give them the opportunity. Novody cares about what you do...just don't mistreat them...give them a chance to shine. Respect them, and they will respect you.

Huh!!! I don't see any serious vanity issues here. I certainly don't see any lack of respect from Pething towards his players. Rather, his attitude in starting this thread shows admirable humility.

[fernb8]

Originally posted by pething101


I think my concerns stem from the fact I have never done this before and I dont want to get destroyed every game. Vainity.

Still learning this whole thing. Gotta let go of that mentality.

Does your varsity team use a sweeper? If so talk to the coach and get some ideas/principles on playing the sweeper system from him or talk him into coaching the system to your guys.
If not, then find a team who does play that system and watch them play. I am sure the varsity squad will face some opposition that uses a sweeper, make notes; positives and negatives of the system, note the attributes of the player who is the sweeper.

Introduce the concept and see how your players respond, it sounds like you have plenty of matches coming up to give a try.

[m-chill]

" I think my concerns stem from the fact I have never done this before and I dont want to get destroyed every game."

pething> just remember your job is to develope players for the varsity team to use, this year or next. don't worry about results. no1 will remember if so and so's JV beat your JV team. i did JV several years ago. i told my team what i'm telling you. i told them to take risks and learn the game. results are meaningless. looking back that was the first step to my JV team playing well. when i was the varsity coach i never looked to see what the JV results were. i just checked out some of their games to see how the players were progressing, and if any of them would be usefull for later that year to fill spots to injured players, or players that i was not happy with. SOoo if you can take a player or two that suck at sweeper now but by the end of the year can play that spot for even the varsity team then you have done your job, wether you lost all your games by 10 goals or won them by ten. remember, results being meaningless, also means that your wins don't mean anything either. player developement is the name of the game

[Elroy]

Originally posted by m-chill
" I think my concerns stem from the fact I have never done this before and I dont want to get destroyed every game."

pething> just remember your job is to develope players for the varsity team to use, this year or next. don't worry about results. no1 will remember if so and so's JV beat your JV team. i did JV several years ago. i told my team what i'm telling you. i told them to take risks and learn the game. results are meaningless. looking back that was the first step to my JV team playing well. when i was the varsity coach i never looked to see what the JV results were. i just checked out some of their games to see how the players were progressing, and if any of them would be usefull for later that year to fill spots to injured players, or players that i was not happy with. SOoo if you can take a player or two that suck at sweeper now but by the end of the year can play that spot for even the varsity team then you have done your job, wether you lost all your games by 10 goals or won them by ten. remember, results being meaningless, also means that your wins don't mean anything either. player developement is the name of the game

I don't know where to begin. Antelope is O.K. - develope is not. That said, I agree that the development of players is the JV coach's major concern. However, it is not only uneccessary for the JV coach to sacrifice team success to this goal, it is probably also counter productive. Unless your team shows some competitive success, getting continously smacked around will steal the enthusiasm from your players.

Pething - you need to walk the fine line of ensuring individual player development and team success. You should be able to achieve both. Winning may not be the best measurement of that success. You may need to be a salesman to convince your team that it is making progress.

Occasionally, you may have to risk a match by inserting inexperienced player or by changing positions or strategies. It's an art. No one can tell you exactly how to get it done. Just keep plugging away.

[pething101]

JV 7
Varsity 0

[lond2345]

can anyone tell me where to go so i can coach? do i need to go somewhere and apply?

i would like to coach little kids, and since the thread starter says he had no previous experience coaching soccer...

any info for a total newbie?

[panicfc]

Originally posted by pething101
JV 7
Varsity 0

What the hell?

Did the head coach fire you?

[pething101]

Originally posted by panicfc


What the hell?

Did the head coach fire you?

Nah.

The varisty did some serious suicides after we got done though.

I have no clue what happen. We played with the eight jv guys and with the head coaches nephew who is decent but nothing to write home about. Played a 3-3-1 with the nephew playing in the back with my 3 jv players to help them know when to move up and support.

We passed the ball well, our spacing was better and our hustle was much better than the varsity. After we scored a couple, I was happy but expecting the varsity to turn it up. They never did and we added 5 more before it ended.

Kind of shocked.

[pething101]

Originally posted by Elizabeth

Just saw the last response...you NEED to let go of thinking this is about YOU. This is about the kids...you had your chance. it's their turn now. Give them the opportunity. Novody cares about what you do...just don't mistreat them...give them a chance to shine. Respect them, and they will respect you.

Easy there.

Thanks for the opinion but pretty sure that you are misreading something b/c no where have I implied anything about me living through these kids. I have made all the effort in the world to tell these kids not to worry about wins and losses; that improving each day is what I am looking for.

As far as respect goes, again, not worried about it. If I do the best I can do and expect the best from them, then sort of thing will take care of itself.

[Reality_Al]

Originally posted by pething101


The varsity coach uses a sweeper. I am just not sure I trust any of my players enough to plug them in at sweeper. Just waiting for him to get burned.

Our pregame and half-time chant is "CONTAIN"
Although the forward attackers may be able to get away with diving in, if the sweeper does it, expect a lot of 1v1's w/ your GK and the opponent's attackers. The sweeper has to be courageous but smart. Have the audacity of a GK but the vision of a playmaking CenterMid. If you have such a player, invest the time and trouble NOW and watch how tough your team becomes.

[Reality_Al]

Originally posted by JohnW


What age are your girls again?
jgw
These are HS Players,9 to 12th grade. On Monday, we basically walked through SHAPE, then kicked some long balls to the forwards&mids and let them one-touch finish in an open goal. The BOX had easy pressure with NO TACKLING OR CLEARING allowed. Played tonight! WON and played w/ maximum substitutions.
Tommorow we watch videos of high level soccer, and do some chalk-talk.
Thursday is the BIGGEST Game of the season, so far. The team we play is unbeaten, and,in our conference, so are we.
Got any Pregame talking points? IDEAS?

[Reality_Al]

Originally posted by Elroy


I'm certain that this discussion has been made a thread somewhere, but I just don't buy into this concept. I've coached males and females at every age level for over twenty years and just haven't experienced anything other than minor cultural differences. I think that making some sort of major mystery out of gender coaching differences is harmful b/c it hammers in stereotypes.


Oh NO! Peth, watch out here, because this advice can only come back to haunt you.

Originally posted by Elroy

From a physical perspective, athletes are athletes. One cannot expect to generalize within a gender anymore that one can across genders. If women and girls are not as quick, fast, or strong in general as men, they are still quick, fast, or strong in relation to their opponents. Any coach still has to deal with matchups.

Originally posted by Elroy

Just teach the game and be sensitive to the needs of your players

Using the word "sensitive" is probably the first correct distinction you may have found. If you think that technically, tactically, and sexually, women vs men soccer players are coachably the same, NO WAY. Take a team of women, and dress one down in front of her teammates, as you would a man, and you'll immediately see the difference between the two groups.

Yes, they can be physically tough, mentally tough, and play their hearts out, but their physiology, and therefore their psychology, is different. Look at game films together with the two different groups. Want to point out a mistake? The men will deny it, and the woman will shut you out and shut you down because they already knew it and don't need to be reminded.

Originally posted by Elroy

I think that a sweeper is the easiest defensive scheme to pick up.


Agree w/you here.A sweeper is primarily your deepest back, in front of the GK. In some formations I've seen the GK and the Sweep to actually share the GK BOX.(Dangerous at the U-16 and below.) Here is where you should get some formation ideas so you can layout, in your mind and on the field, who is responsible for what.

[Elroy]

Originally posted by Reality_Al
Using the word "sensitive" is probably the first correct distinction you may have found. If you think that technically, tactically, and sexually, women vs men soccer players are coachably the same, NO WAY. Take a team of women, and dress one down in front of her teammates, as you would a man, and you'll immediately see the difference between the two groups.

Yes, they can be physically tough, mentally tough, and play their hearts out, but their physiology, and therefore their psychology, is different. Look at game films together with the two different groups. Want to point out a mistake? The men will deny it, and the woman will shut you out and shut you down because they already knew it and don't need to be reminded.

Ya know, every time I post on a subject like this, someone reads what I say very selectively. My point was that if you coach anyone ( regardless of gender ) without considering their individual needs, you will experience problems. I did not endorse embarassing players, male or female. I've done it and regretted it. In twenty years, I've had males who displayed very feminine characteristics and women who fit the male stereotype. There are a few distinctions generally between males and females, but they are well known and easily adapted to ( i.e. the "cultural differences" I alluded to ). You pointed one out. But, any stereotypes are dangerous and coaches who rely on them are ill served.

Al, you're putting a spin on my words that just isn't there.

[m-chill]

Originally posted by Elroy


I don't know where to begin. Antelope is O.K. - develope is not. That said, I agree that the development of players is the JV coach's major concern. However, it is not only uneccessary for the JV coach to sacrifice team success to this goal, it is probably also counter productive. Unless your team shows some competitive success, getting continously smacked around will steal the enthusiasm from your players.

Pething - you need to walk the fine line of ensuring individual player development and team success. You should be able to achieve both. Winning may not be the best measurement of that success. You may need to be a salesman to convince your team that it is making progress."

i can't dissagree more here. your job as coach is to focus your players on the goal of JV. they need to understand that JV games are nothing more than a practice game for kids that are not good enough or mature enough to play on the "real" team. joining that " real" team will be enough motivation to keep your players working hard in practice and in games. if your players think beating other JV teams is good enough they will be in big trouble next year when they play against varsity teams. see results don't matter period. weather you win or lose. the goal is to have each player play better than they did the day before. i conference with each player and truthfully tell them why they are on JV instead of varsity. then it is their job to work on those weaknesses. when we talk about past games, we address what the player was working on and how well they progressed in those areas. not what the result of the game was. ofcoures, we wil have team goals that go along with individual goals, such as moving off the ball to support the ball, how well we combined passes, ect...

Originally posted by Elroy

"Occasionally, you may have to risk a match by inserting inexperienced player or by changing positions or strategies. It's an art. No one can tell you exactly how to get it done. Just keep plugging away.

pething > once you let go of getting results and allow players to find out what works and doesn't, how to take risk and make them work, your players will progress much more rapidly. the whole reason for this is because what gets results in JV games ussually underminds player developement such as defenders clearing balls to be safe instead of learning how to take possesion and play a nice pass to a another player. its more of a risk and they will fail in the begining but over the year they will grasp it and or atleast get better at it. case in point is your "wright like" player that your affraid to play at sweeper because he will cost you games because of his dribbling tendancies. if you take the risk and play him there and work with him over the year, he will learn that there are times to dribble and times to pass. having a player with skill playing sweeper could be a huge advantage next season when the varsity team looks for a player to sweep.

also just a side note. as your players progress you will end up winning your last games just because your team is playing a more mature style of soccer than the rest of the JV teams that didn't want to risk results for their player developement.

[Elroy]

QUOTE]Originally posted by m-chill


i can't dissagree more here. your job as coach is to focus your players on the goal of JV. they need to understand that JV games are nothing more than a practice game for kids that are not good enough or mature enough to play on the "real" team. joining that " real" team will be enough motivation to keep your players working hard in practice and in games. if your players think beating other JV teams is good enough they will be in big trouble next year when they play against varsity teams. see results don't matter period.
pething > once you let go of getting results and allow players to find out what works and doesn't, how to take risk and make them work, your players will progress much more rapidly. the whole reason for this is because what gets results in JV games ussually underminds player developement such as defenders clearing balls to be safe instead of learning how to take possesion and play a nice pass to a another player. its more of a risk and they will fail in the begining but over the year they will grasp it and or atleast get better at it. case in point is your "wright like" player that your affraid to play at sweeper because he will cost you games because of his dribbling tendancies. if you take the risk and play him there and work with him over the year, he will learn that there are times to dribble and times to pass. having a player with skill playing sweeper could be a huge advantage next season when the varsity team looks for a player to sweep.

[/QUOTE]

Wow! You're a real salesman, I bet your kids just love to hear you tell them that they're not good enough!!

You have made one stupendous miscalculation. That is that somehow learning and winning CAN'T go hand in hand. What happens in your program when the players make varsity and winning becomes important - do you stop teaching them?

A successful JV coach finds a balance between team success and individual development. Really good coaches accomplish both.

[Reality_Al]

Elroy;
No harm intended,I hope, no foul. I was merely using your remarks as a soapbox for 'viva la differance.'
If you stay positive with the players, and correct them with questions delivered in an honest, non-sarcastic manner, I think they learn to make good decisions, and become better soccer players.
JV or Varsity, I think my role as a Coach is to provide an environment that helps them enjoy the process, not the outcome. Win or Lose? Hey, my GreatGrandDad used to say, "We all live under the death penalty. Better enjoy the yard."


"Challenge involves the risk of not succeeding."

[MarioKempes]

Originally posted by pething101
JV 7
Varsity 0

I'm sorry, but the Varsity team is a joke. Maybe they should call up a few from the JV. Really.