Messi vs Diego

[Paul_NL]

Lionel Messi

Born: 24 - 6 - 1987

Prices won:

With Argentina National Team:

FIFA U-20 World Cup: 2005

With FC Barcelona:

La Liga: 2004-05, 2005-06
UEFA Champions League: 2005-06
Supercopa de España: 2005, 2006

Personal Honours:

Golden Ball: FIFA U-20 World Cup 2005
Golden Boot: FIFA U-20 World Cup 2005
Golden Boy: 2005
Olimpia de Plata: Argentinian player of the year 2005
2006 [FIFPro World Young Player of the Year]

Diego

Born: 30-10-1960

1979 Golden Ball for Best Player of the FIFA U-20 World Cup
1979 Argentine league Top Scorer
1979 Argentine Football Writers' Footballer of the Year
1979 South American Footballer of the Year (El Mundo, Caracas)

Clearly Messi is superior to Diego now

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Clearly? I think not.

[Paul_NL]

Clearly? I think not.

Interesting, you have an opinion as well?

[Teso Dos Bichos]

I could explain further but considering you made the school boy error of basing everyone on achievements, I fear I would be completely wasting my time.

[Miran Klosnic]

Why is Messi above Diego? Because he plays for Barcelona? I don't think so. Both a world class players but Diego has far more experience and is more consistent.The only thing Messi has an advantage is his pace.

[lanman]

You've missed out two pretty important facts.

1 - Messi plays on a great Barcelona side, where others can cover any poor games he has. Maradona played for Argentinos Juniors, who are a side (at the time) you would liken to a Middlesbrough or a Fulham.

2 - Messi has played 39 league games in his career, scoring 14 goals. At the same age Maradona had played 167 games and scored 116 goals

[Dr. Know]

Why is Messi above Diego? Because he plays for Barcelona? I don't think so. Both a world class players but Diego has far more experience and is more consistent.The only thing Messi has an advantage is his pace.

Wrong Diego :rolleyes:.

But that Diego was far from consistent during his time at Porto which was where he played when he has Messi's age.

And I certainly don't know how he has "far more experience" than Messi. They have more or less similar NT experience and as far as club it's debatable. Messi has more CL experience and has won more things with his club while Diego has played in more leagues.

[Paul_NL]

Wrong Diego :rolleyes:.

But that Diego was far from consistent during his time at Porto which was where he played when he has Messi's age.

And I certainly don't know how he has "far more experience" than Messi. They have more or less similar NT experience and as far as club it's debatable. Messi has more CL experience and has won more things with his club while Diego has played in more leagues.

Diego only played in the Argentinian league.

Players you can compare with there same age and so far Messi is far ahead of Diego. He was won more and proven more

[Naughty by Nature]

^ Its Diego the brazilian from Werder Bremen not Diego Maradona.

[lanman]

Diego only played in the Argentinian league.

I would say that 150 games and over 100 goals in Argentina is worth at least as much as 40 in Spain. Let's not forget that a good deal of the 78 World CUp winning team still played in the country and it is long before foreign clubs started signing fringe players from South America. The league was a lot stronger 30 years ago than it is now.

He was won more and proven more

Maradona played for a team that were prety much a non-entity in terms of their history (who had won nothing of note) and turned them into title contenders. Messi plays for one of the best teams in the world so of course he will have won more.

The season in which Maradona turned 20 (which is comparable to this year for Messi) saw a record of 43 goals in 45 games. Go and look up Messi's stats for this past year and compare.

Maradona's international record of games played at the age of 19 was 8 games and 5 goals. Again, go and look at what Messi has achieved for Argentina since the World Cup and compare.

It's also worth noting that Messi has missed substantial time on more than one occassion due to injury, whereas Maradona was playing regularly almost throughout his teens.

[Paul_NL]

I would say that 150 games and over 100 goals in Argentina is worth at least as much as 40 in Spain. Let's not forget that a good deal of the 78 World CUp winning team still played in the country and it is long before foreign clubs started signing fringe players from South America. The league was a lot stronger 30 years ago than it is now.

He also played Metropolitano, which was not so strong.

Maradona played for a team that were prety much a non-entity in terms of their history (who had won nothing of note) and turned them into title contenders. Messi plays for one of the best teams in the world so of course he will have won more.

True, but pressure in Barca is a bit higher dont you think?

The season in which Maradona turned 20 (which is comparable to this year for Messi) saw a record of 43 goals in 45 games. Go and look up Messi's stats for this past year and compare.

Messi is twice the player Aguero is, I have no doubt in my mind that he would score around 20 goals a season for let's say Newell's

Maradona's international record of games played at the age of 19 was 8 games and 5 goals. Again, go and look at what Messi has achieved for Argentina since the World Cup and compare.

He played a WC and Diego not. I think Messi is pretty much up there in games played and scored

It's also worth noting that Messi has missed substantial time on more than one occassion due to injury, whereas Maradona was playing regularly almost throughout his teens.

True




Paul

[lanman]

He also played Metropolitano, which was not so strong.

Even so, if you included Messi's stats from Barcelona B then they would not compare.

True, but pressure in Barca is a bit higher dont you think?

But he is not the focal point of the team. He is a contributor, Maradona was everything to Argentinos.

Messi is twice the player Aguero is, I have no doubt in my mind that he would score around 20 goals a season for let's say Newell's

Would he score 40?

He played a WC and Diego not. I think Messi is pretty much up there in games played and scored

Maradona not going to the 78 World Cup was not a straight forward decision. It has as much to do with the coach not wanting to disrupt his existing plans as the public would have demanded Maradona to play.
Messi's International record is 2 goals in 12 games. Maradona's at a similar age was 20 caps and 8 goals and that is despite a period of over 18 months where he was selected just once (mainly covering 1978 for the reasons highlighted previously). There is no comparison in either their club or international records.

[Paul_NL]

Even so, if you included Messi's stats from Barcelona B then they would not compare.

I dont know his Barcelona B stats

But he is not the focal point of the team. He is a contributor, Maradona was everything to Argentinos.

Messi is winning games for Barcelona

Would he score 40?

He would score 2 goals every 3 games, like Diego did

Maradona not going to the 78 World Cup was not a straight forward decision. It has as much to do with the coach not wanting to disrupt his existing plans as the public would have demanded Maradona to play.
Messi's International record is 2 goals in 12 games. Maradona's at a similar age was 20 caps and 8 goals and that is despite a period of over 18 months where he was selected just once (mainly covering 1978 for the reasons highlighted previously). There is no comparison in either their club or international records.

Excuses, in the end Messi did go and played and Diego did not. In the end Messi already has won 2 league titles and CL and Diego has not



Paul

[lanman]

Messi is winning games for Barcelona

When he plays. The fact is, at the same age Maradona had played 4 times the amount of games Messi has and scored a much greater amount of goals. His contributions to his team far outstrips that of Messi.

He would score 2 goals every 3 games, like Diego did

How do you know that? You are putting opinion up against fact.


Excuses, in the end Messi did go and played and Diego did not. In the end Messi already has won 2 league titles and CL and Diego has not

Messi has played 120 minutes of World Cup football. It's not as if he was player of the tournament - he was a bit part player and the only game he started was a group game when Argentina had already qualified.

So what if Messi has three winners medals? You can discount one league title as he only played 7 games and even in the following campaign he still failed to play in half of Barcelona's games. His contribution was slight and they would have won those titles without him.
Stick him at Getafe and see what he would win. Maradona took a club that had won nothing and who whenever they were in the top flight were among the favourites for relegation and turned them into serious title contenders.
Oleguer has two title medals and a CL winners medal (and probably played more than Messi in each) - does that make him a great player?
Messi is a long, long way short of anything Maradona had achieved at a similar age and you are in a minority of one if you believe anything otherwise.

[Quaresma_7]

why are some ppl still arguing about maradona???... the thread just says diego.... dnt u ppl think he would but Messi vs. Maradona... and Maradona was much better hten Messi will ever be.... hes up there with Pele and Eusebio, Beckenbauer and those names..... Messi i think is well overrated...

[comme]

why are some ppl still arguing about maradona???... the thread just says diego.... dnt u ppl think he would but Messi vs. Maradona... and Maradona was much better hten Messi will ever be.... hes up there with Pele and Eusebio, Beckenbauer and those names..... Messi i think is well overrated...

I think the clue was in the initial post when the thread starter wrote

"Diego

Born: 30-10-1960

1979 Golden Ball for Best Player of the FIFA U-20 World Cup
1979 Argentine league Top Scorer
1979 Argentine Football Writers' Footballer of the Year
1979 South American Footballer of the Year (El Mundo, Caracas)"

Now I may be wrong, but I don't think the Diego of Werder Bremen was born in 1960 or won those awards.

[argentine soccer fan]

Clearly Messi is superior to Diego now

Well, of course Messi is better now, but what can you expect? You have to consider that Diego has been through a lot, since he retired. :D

[Paul_NL]

When he plays. The fact is, at the same age Maradona had played 4 times the amount of games Messi has and scored a much greater amount of goals. His contributions to his team far outstrips that of Messi.

Messi on the other hand had won a CL, 2 league titles and played in a world cup

How do you know that? You are putting opinion up against fact.

Because I know soccer, if you think Messi is not twice the player Aguero is there is no point to keep on talking to you


Messi has played 120 minutes of World Cup football. It's not as if he was player of the tournament - he was a bit part player and the only game he started was a group game when Argentina had already qualified.

It still is more then Diego played

So what if Messi has three winners medals? You can discount one league title as he only played 7 games and even in the following campaign he still failed to play in half of Barcelona's games. His contribution was slight and they would have won those titles without him.

Prolly, but he still won them and Diego had just won one WC under 21

Stick him at Getafe and see what he would win. Maradona took a club that had won nothing and who whenever they were in the top flight were among the favourites for relegation and turned them into serious title contenders.

Apples and oranges


Oleguer has two title medals and a CL winners medal (and probably played more than Messi in each) - does that make him a great player?

Try to get some more twisted logic

Messi is a long, long way short of anything Maradona had achieved at a similar age and you are in a minority of one if you believe anything otherwise.

Messi has archived more untill now



Paul

[lanman]

Messi on the other hand had won a CL, 2 league titles and played in a world cup

What part of this don't you get? Messi plays for a club always in contention for major honours and is a contributor to that whereas Maradon was the focal point in turning a mediocre club into title contenders. Did you even bother to read the bit about how much of a role Messi played in those titles? He played 7 games in one (most, if not all, after the title was won) and less than half in each of the others. He is essentially a part time contributor whereas Maradona was the key to Argentinos.

Because I know soccer, if you think Messi is not twice the player Aguero is there is no point to keep on talking to you

The first part is very debatable, the second is not even part of this debate. Aguero has nothing to do with Messi or Maradona.

It still is more then Diego played

And Messi's total games played is almost insignificant compared to what Maradona played and performed in.

Prolly, but he still won them and Diego had just won one WC under 21


And Jonathan Greening has a CL winners medal. Listing trophies won is meaningless unless you actually look at how much a player contributed towards them. Stanley Matthews won one trophy in his career whereas Ray Houghton won everything going in England. I don't think you'll find any person who would argue that Houghton was the better player based on this.

Apples and oranges

How so? Putting Messi into the same sort of situation Maradona found himself as a teenager and trying to look at what he would have achieved is trying to create a balanced playing field for the comparison.

Try to get some more twisted logic

I'm using you're logic here. By your reckoning, part of what makes Messi better than Maradona at the same age is that he has won those trophies. By extension, Oleguer must also get the same degree of credit for them as he certainly contributed as much as Messi towards them.

[QUOTE]Messi has archived more untill now[/QUOTE}

No - he has won more by virtue of playing at arguably the best side in the world as opposed to relegation fodder. There is a distinct difference between achievement and winning trophies as you have to look at the contribution made towards the trophies.

Why don't you go and post this comparison on the Argentina board? I'm pretty sure you will be laughed off it.

[Paul_NL]

What part of this don't you get? Messi plays for a club always in contention for major honours and is a contributor to that whereas Maradon was the focal point in turning a mediocre club into title contenders. Did you even bother to read the bit about how much of a role Messi played in those titles? He played 7 games in one (most, if not all, after the title was won) and less than half in each of the others. He is essentially a part time contributor whereas Maradona was the key to Argentinos.

Great players win titles, Maradona didnt untill he turned 25

The first part is very debatable, the second is not even part of this debate. Aguero has nothing to do with Messi or Maradona.

You were talking about Diego's great goal scoring record in Argentina. Messi would have done the same and probally win some prices as well


And Messi's total games played is almost insignificant compared to what Maradona played and performed in.

It's not


And Jonathan Greening has a CL winners medal. Listing trophies won is meaningless unless you actually look at how much a player contributed towards them. Stanley Matthews won one trophy in his career whereas Ray Houghton won everything going in England. I don't think you'll find any person who would argue that Houghton was the better player based on this.

Whatever you want


How so? Putting Messi into the same sort of situation Maradona found himself as a teenager and trying to look at what he would have achieved is trying to create a balanced playing field for the comparison.

Maybe you didnt notice yet but Messi is 19


I'm using you're logic here. By your reckoning, part of what makes Messi better than Maradona at the same age is that he has won those trophies. By extension, Oleguer must also get the same degree of credit for them as he certainly contributed as much as Messi towards them.

Hopefully it's a joke

[QUOTE]Messi has archived more untill now[/QUOTE}

No - he has won more by virtue of playing at arguably the best side in the world as opposed to relegation fodder. There is a distinct difference between achievement and winning trophies as you have to look at the contribution made towards the trophies.

Messi did both

Why don't you go and post this comparison on the Argentina board? I'm pretty sure you will be laughed off it.

Argentines are not really a good argument



Paul