welsh teams in english fa

[patrickm]

are all welsh teams eleigible for the football league in england? wales has a league of its own. are the winners allowed to play in the 3rd division in england? i know a couple welsh teams play in england already-cardiff and swansea. how does this work and why do welsh teams play in england anyway?

[RichardL]

Welsh teams play in England because until a few years ago there wasn't a welsh league. None of the bigger welsh teams wanted to join the new welsh league because they thought it was a crap idea. Essentially there are only 5 teams in Wales (Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham, Newport & Merthyr) capable of pulling more than 400 people to a match). All 5 believe playing in England will give them more potential to advance as clubs.

[comme]

Firstly its Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham that play in the football league. Newport and Merthyr also play at a lower level within the English leagues.

As to why this is the case, I don't know, it simply always has been. Cardiff have been there to my knowedge since the 1920s at the latest as they finished runners up in 1923 or thereabouts and won the FA Cup in 1927.

The League of Wales has no way of promotion to the football league, it is totally separate in the same way that Scotland's or France's leagues are.

[RichardL]

The Welsh league is not a feeder league for England, so no they don't get the chance to progress even towards Division 3, let alone into it.

[comme]

Originally posted by RichardL
Welsh teams play in England because until a few years ago there wasn't a welsh league. None of the bigger welsh teams wanted to join the new welsh league because they thought it was a crap idea. Essentially there are only 5 teams in Wales (Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham, Newport & Merthyr) capable of pulling more than 400 people to a match). All 5 believe playing in England will give them more potential to advance as clubs.

Our posts overlapped slightly there.

I think that Barry Town can draw some reasonable gates, and they managed to beat Porto 3-0 in this season's CL (they had lost the first leg 8-0).

[patrickm]

since ireland and northern ireland have never had truly viable leagues, why have their teams not played in england. northern ireland atr least, sice it part of the uk. scotland of course is different becuase they have had a top league. and how good is the eirecom league? do they show the games on tv?

[Peakite]

Originally posted by RichardL
Welsh teams play in England because until a few years ago there wasn't a welsh league. None of the bigger welsh teams wanted to join the new welsh league because they thought it was a crap idea. Essentially there are only 5 teams in Wales (Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham, Newport & Merthyr) capable of pulling more than 400 people to a match). All 5 believe playing in England will give them more potential to advance as clubs.
Colwyn Bay as well.

[pmufc]

There have never been Irish sides in the English leagues although there was talk of Wimbledon moving to Dublin but it was blocked by UEFA.
England and Wales used to share the same FA.
The Eircom league is better than the league of Ireland or the Welsh league and sides have even got quite far in the European Cup and beat good top teams. There was a 1 hour magazine programme called the Soccer Show on Sky Sports in the British Isles but it isn't on anymore.

[patrickm]

i thought the eirecom league was the national league of ireland. it plays in the summer now. is that something worth watching during the summer?

[CrewToon]

Should cardiff win the playoff would it be the first time that a Welsh team made it the First Division (Old Second Division)?

[Clan]

Originally posted by CrewToon
Should cardiff win the playoff would it be the first time that a Welsh team made it the First Division (Old Second Division)?

Cardiff was in the first division (old) for a number of years after the war.

They-Swansea-Wrexham-Cardiff have been in the second division (old) quite often and have stayed there for many many seasons.Of late though they have hit hard times.

[Maczebus]

Originally posted by CrewToon
Should cardiff win the playoff would it be the first time that a Welsh team made it the First Division (Old Second Division)?

As Clan said, no.
But for reference:http://www.cardiffcity-mad.co.uk/footydb/loadlghs.asp

You have scroll down considerably.

[Maczebus]

Originally posted by patrickm
since ireland and northern ireland have never had truly viable leagues, why have their teams not played in england. northern ireland atr least, sice it part of the uk. scotland of course is different becuase they have had a top league.

Mustn't forget that when the football league was initiated, distance needed to be travelled was a factor.
There were the costs obviously that no-one could have supported. But mainly, the logistics of it all were beyond the times.
The plane hadn't been invented yet, the number of 'cars' on the roads were, shall we say, limited.
In the meantime, waiting for the required technology to catch up, England found herself more than enough teams to make up a league, without having to go off to Ireland.
As you say, the Scots sorted themselves out with a smaller set up.
Overall, it's the distance factor.

[RichardL]

Originally posted by CrewToon
Should cardiff win the playoff would it be the first time that a Welsh team made it the First Division (Old Second Division)?

Cardiff have spent most of the time in the top 2 divisions.
League career (from 1920) - (using old names, Divs 1-4)
Div 1 1921-29, 52-57, 60-62
Div 2 1920-21, 29-31, 47-52, 57-60, 62-75, 76-82, 83-85
They've been in the bottom 2 since then.

Swansea's top 2 Divs career
Div 1 1981-83
Div 2 1925-47, 49-65, 79-81, 83-84

Newport County were in Div 2 from 1939-1947, although with football suspended for WWII, that only amounts to one season (1946-47) and about a month at the start of the 1939-40 season (abandoned). European Cup Winners Cup finalists 1981!

Wrexham's only spell in the top 2 division's was in Div 2 from 1978-82

Merthyr Tydfil had a brief spell in the football league (Div 3 South) before WWII, as did Abadare Athletic, who no longer exist.

Prior to 1920 the Welsh clubs played in the Southern League which was something of a rival to the football league, which contained mainly northern and midlands clubs. After WWI the top clubs from the southern league joined the football league as Div 3.

[rcoull]

Originally posted by CrewToon
Should cardiff win the playoff would it be the first time that a Welsh team made it the First Division (Old Second Division)?

Cardiff have been in the old first Division (aka Premier League Now) in their history and did win the FA Cup in, crap I'm getting old my memories failing me, about 1927/8 where they beat Arsenal 1-0...

Swansea also made the old First Divsion (aka The Premier League) in the early 80's and were at one point leading the way before they have fallen on hard times and just survived being relegated from Division 3.

Wrexham have been into the (new) First Division (or second Division (old) whaever you want to call it!!

-Richard

[RichardL]

Originally posted by patrickm
since ireland and northern ireland have never had truly viable leagues, why have their teams not played in england. northern ireland atr least, sice it part of the uk. scotland of course is different becuase they have had a top league. and how good is the eirecom league? do they show the games on tv?
they may not have been viable as anything other than semi-pro leagues (although I do believe crowds were much higher in years gone by, grounds like Glentoran's Oval were not built for crowds of 2000) there was some hint of equality. Get beyond Cardiff, Swansea, Newport, Wrexham & Merthyr and their are no sizeable population centres to support clubs. LOW clubs generally play in towns with populations of 10,000 or lower. There is also the fact that rugby is traditionally Wales' national game, which erodes support even further. If those 5 played in the LOW it would make the SPL look competitive.

I'm sure eirecom matches are shown on TV in Ireland, and N.Irish league matches are shown in N.Ireland, but I doubt either are shown outside their own country.

As for the standard, according to the UEFA coefficients the placing for those three are

39 Ireland
40 Malta
41 Armenia
42 Wales
43 Liechtenstein
44 Albania
45 Estonia
46 N.Ireland

Once you get down to that level the rankings are a bit hit and miss due the the low number of teams competing and the luck of the draw in who they play, but it does kind of highlight the level.

[comme]

Originally posted by RichardL
Get beyond Cardiff, Swansea, Newport, Wrexham & Merthyr and their are no sizeable population centres to support clubs. LOW clubs generally play in towns with populations of 10,000 or lower. There is also the fact that rugby is traditionally Wales' national game, which erodes support even further. If those 5 played in the LOW it would make the SPL look competitive.



Well thats not strictly true. There are plenty of places with more than 10,000, but they tend to follow City, because the valleys are so close and focus so much on Cardiff. Places like Ponty, Caerphilly, Port Talbot and a fair few more could support clubs but for some reason don't.

I would also dispute the fact that rugby is the national game, as football attracts such bigger crowds and is the game played by kids. Its only in schools that Rugby really gets a foothold.

As for Cardiff's time in the first division, they finished runners up (repeating myself) by the smallest margin (goal average) in the history of the league.

[Peakite]

And they missed a penalty which would have given them the title in the final few minutes.

[M]

Originally posted by Luan
Colwyn Bay as well.

Who just got relegated from the Unibond Premier Division (level 6). At this point, I would have thought they would be better off playing in the League Of Wales.

[patrickm]

does snowdonia/mt snowden have a team?i've been there. and the castle where the investiture is held. besty-a-coed? i've been there.