Why is it tougher for a CONCACAF player to play in BIG EUROPEAN TEAMS?

[latinpapiincharlotte]

Well I personally think that CONCACAF players have a lot more to prove then other players say S.AMERICANS or other EUROPEAN players or even ASIAN players for that matter or MIDDLE EASTERN.

I think if Suazo had a Brazilian passport he would be playing in a big club a few years ago and you could probably ask any price for him. I know there are X-FACTORS that weight into this.

1. HISTORY of there national team
2. THE LEAGUE THE PLAYER was brought in from
3. Marketing/popularly plays a role

So obiviously he has all those things against him, but how is an 18 year old Argentinian player who has not played in Europe considered more expensive then a player that is in his prime playing in a top flight league?. Sure the team owner doesnt want to sell him but if someone pays enough for him you know what they say, MONEY TALKS BS WALKS.

[jared9999]

not many asians play on big euro teams either. i can only think of parks, and he is a bench warmer. middle eastern people are also asian so i include them. why is it tougher for concacaf players to play in big european teams than argentine/brazilian players? because they have a history of playing on big euro clubs and being successful; also because most concacaf players are not at the level and are not good enough to play there.

I do not think Mexican players have more to prove than asians because both our national team and clubs are better than theirs

[Guatefc]

not many asians play on big euro teams either. i can only think of parks, and he is a bench warmer. middle eastern people are also asian so i include them. why is it tougher for concacaf players to play in big european teams than argentine/brazilian players? because they have a history of playing on big euro clubs and being successful; also because most concacaf players are not at the level and are not good enough to play there.

I do not think Mexican players have more to prove than asians because both our national team and clubs are better than theirs

yeah most of the chino's are bench warmers, in the premiership, but they have a few in holland IIRC, Iranians have players in the bundesliga, and africans because of thier ties to the UK and other EU countries are often brought to BIG EU clubs before Concacaf players. , latinpapiincharlotte you do make some good points, but i think its more that they rather scoutEU,SA, Africa and asia before making a trip to Honduras, guatemala, TT and CR because it might not be worth it, but hey that their lost.

the only time EU clubs make moves on Concacaf players is one with good club trajectory, like Pezzarossi who was picked up by Bolton till being spotted by scouts in spain, after he was scouted out while playing in argentina and Chile top flight.

i think the more the concacaf players ply thier trade in areas, where big Clubs look for like Argentine 1st, Brazil SerieA, and Chile and play well, more concacaf players will get their fair shot at a Big team. those places are stepping stones to big clubs, i for 1 believe that a player of Suazo talent could of gone farther had he been picked up and started his career after honduras in Argentina and maybe dominate there.? what do you think? the sam goes Ruiz , who many believe should be in Europe , instead alot of Americans who competed in the same league , but never came close to the accomplishments of a Ruiz ( Wolf, Mathis, Donavan), in the MLS or the INtl level.

[latinpapiincharlotte]

yeah most of the chino's are bench warmers, in the premiership, but they have a few in holland IIRC, Iranians have players in the bundesliga, and africans because of thier ties to the UK and other EU countries are often brought to BIG EU clubs before Concacaf players. , latinpapiincharlotte you do make some good points, but i think its more that they rather scoutEU,SA, Africa and asia before making a trip to Honduras, guatemala, TT and CR because it might not be worth it, but hey that their lost.

the only time EU clubs make moves on Concacaf players is one with good club trajectory, like Pezzarossi who was picked up by Bolton till being spotted by scouts in spain, after he was scouted out while playing in argentina and Chile top flight.

i think the more the concacaf players ply thier trade in areas, where big Clubs look for like Argentine 1st, Brazil SerieA, and Chile and play well, more concacaf players will get their fair shot at a Big team. those places are stepping stones to big clubs, i for 1 believe that a player of Suazo talent could of gone farther had he been picked up and started his career after honduras in Argentina and maybe dominate there.? what do you think? the sam goes Ruiz , who many believe should be in Europe , instead alot of Americans who competed in the same league , but never came close to the accomplishments of a Ruiz ( Wolf, Mathis, Donavan), in the MLS or the INtl level.


Yeah very good points, I mean these guys really have to earn there stripes and showcase there talent on the field the name alone or where they come from wont be enough in this case. Well Suazo has been playing in Italy since he was 19 or 20 years old so i figured hey if he starts there from the get go he would have advantage over the other guys playing in America or S.America? because he has reached his prime while playing in 1st and 2nd division in Italy. Yeah I think Ruiz should of had a chance to play in Europe he is a great goal scorer and a great finisher in the box. How old is he? does he still have time to move else where or? but either way MLS is becoming a very competitive league.

My point really is why it has taken so much trouble to have a team step up to the plate and pay a good chunk for Suazo when he has clearly proven that he can play in top flight soccer. Instead they are trying to offer these cheap offers which the owner is happily rejecting.

I remember when it took a while for Marquez to be sold to Barcelona, when he was with Monaco. There were plenty of rumors and suitors, maybe suazo catches a break this summer. The leading candidates are Inter Milan and Real Madrid so far. Thats the word on the street

[MetroChile]

Park Ji Sung alterna como titular en el Man U, y es coreano: no es chino.
Lee Young-Pyo (coreano) es titular en el Tottenham (EPL).
Koji Nakata (japones) es titular en el Basilea suizo.
Ahora hay un delantero japones en el Catania (Serie A), pero se me escapa su nombre.
Y hay por lo menos unos 10-15 mas que son titulares en el resto de Europa (me da flojera buscarlos todos).

Y en cuanto a la pregunta: que de porque les cuesta mas consagrase a jugadores de la CONCACAF que a algunos de la CONMEBOL? Yo creo que (individualmente) aun no estan a la par todos. Hay muchos que si se han consagrado (Wanchope en su momento, Suazo, Rambo Leon, Rafa Marquez, Dely Valdes, etc...)

Lo que sucede es que el mercado de Europa le esta empezando a abrir las puertas recien los ultimos anhos a la CONCAF. Por eso es que hay una leve desventaja. No es que sean menos que jugadores sudamericanos, pero los sudamericanos vienen llegando en numeros a Europa desde mediados de los '90s (e incluso de antes, pero en menor medida).

Y tambien se puede agregar que es un tema de proporciones, porque por ejemplo Brasil y Argentina pueden sacar muchos mas jugadores que Honduras, ES, CR, etc.. aunque yo diria que en 5-10 anhos mas la diferencia no va a ser tan clara. Se iran dando cuenta en Europa que el jugador CONCACAF tambien rinde, y seguramente importarian mas. :)

Metro

[MoRado]

Park Ji Sung alterna como titular en el Man U, y es coreano: no es chino.
Lee Young-Pyo (coreano) es titular en el Tottenham (EPL).
Koji Nakata (japones) es titular en el Basilea suizo.
Ahora hay un delantero japones en el Catania (Serie A), pero se me escapa su nombre.

falto Nakamura, la estrella del Celtic

[Deathdealer]

They simply don't have the respect, for Concacaf players they have to earn there time there while south americans allready come in with white gloves. I consider it fair in the sense that they have a longer history of success, But as soon as a concacaf player has proven himself this should no longer be the case, for example Suazo & Marquez (no especific order). Even though marquez allready got his taste of the big time.

[lfsr1544]

They simply don't have the respect, for Concacaf players they have to earn there time there while south americans allready come in with white gloves. I consider it fair in the sense that they have a longer history of success, But as soon as a concacaf player has proven himself this should no longer be the case, for example Suazo & Marquez (no especific order). Even though marquez allready got his taste of the big time.

There is one HUGE determining factor which the Concacaf members need to improve in exporting players (with the exception of Mexico). They MUST start to compete in larger tourneys (Copa Libertadores, Copa Sudamericana). Costa Rica just started I think last year in the Copa Sud, where they were blown away by Colo-Colo both at home and away. But that allows domestic teams in the Concacaf region to evaluate where they need to improve. There is no way that any top European club can look and gauge just how good you are and then take a risk in shelling out top dollar.
It's sort of like a straight 'A' student in a poor school system that is then accepted into Harvard only to realize he has to take remedial math and english courses just to stay afloat. Before jumping onto Europe, I think that ESPECIALLY the central american countries need to have their agents place their top talent in the top leagues in South America and Mexico. It's a natural progression.
For example, I know that in the Colombian league, we're starting to see more and more Panamenos. Class Panamenos players like Blas Peres, Felipe Baloy, Gomez etc. They then get noticed as these guys play Copa Lib and get an opportunity to showcase. That level of competition also shoes up on NT level. It only makes sense. Yet, where are the guys from El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, etc.
In Colombia, the usual PROVEN sequence is going to Argentina and then to Europe. They know the Colombian player is skilllfull, fast, tactical but they lack the pace and at times professionalism taht you need to be an "A" player in Europe- I mean in Argentina and Brazil it's much more level then in places like Colombia. But in Colombia, it's much more leveled then in many other countries.
Top clubs want to get their top prospects ready to play on the field ASAP, not to have to spend 1-2 years 'grooming' the player on basic stuff. The Central American agents need to step it up and start bringing their top talents to all the top teams in South America/Mexico to get that needed exposure.
It may take some time, many will fail, but many indeed will eventually succeed. But there has to be a plan.

[jared9999]

falto Nakamura, la estrella del Celtic

i don't really consider celtic, totenham, basilea, as big european clubs. when i think of big euro clubs i think of barca, r. madrid, valencia, liverpool, man u , chelsea, milan, inter, juventus( before they went to serie b. if we consider teams like celtic and others then Concacaf have several players in euro clubs. if not then we only have one on a big euro club, rafa marquez

[panchostein]

Another point against CONCACAF players is the size of the players in Europe and the speed of the game over there. If you watch most of the game in the area the pace of the game is a lot slower in general;for example if you don't have size you have to have speed and quickness to make up.

[MetroChile]

falto Nakamura, la estrella del Celtic

Y agregaria a Takahara (Japon)--titular en el Eintracht de Frankfurt aleman.

Metro

[latinpapiincharlotte]

i don't really consider celtic, totenham, basilea, as big european clubs. when i think of big euro clubs i think of barca, r. madrid, valencia, liverpool, man u , chelsea, milan, inter, juventus( before they went to serie b. if we consider teams like celtic and others then Concacaf have several players in euro clubs. if not then we only have one on a big euro club, rafa marquez

Yeah thats my point that theres really only one CONCACAF player that is playing in a TOP EUROPEAN CLUB which would be Rafa Marquez. Other then that most are playing for mid level teams or small teams Like Suazo for example. My point is that Suazo has been in Italy since he was 19 and hes 27 now so he is well groomed and has pretty much established himself as a PLAYER and he is still overlooked by other young S.AMERICAN players who have never touched EUROPEAN SOIL. Thats my arguement really, hopefully this summer he makes the jump though. It seems like they always try to lowball the CONCACAF players, I remember after AMADO GUEVARRA played in the 2001 COPA AMERICA Toros Neza which is where he was playing in Mexico asked for a higher price then what his value was because he won the MVP IN THE COPA AMERICA and had played real well . The price was 1MIL however Valencia did not want to pay that much so the whole deal fell off.

[MetroChile]

i don't really consider celtic, totenham, basilea, as big european clubs. when i think of big euro clubs i think of barca, r. madrid, valencia, liverpool, man u , chelsea, milan, inter, juventus( before they went to serie b. if we consider teams like celtic and others then Concacaf have several players in euro clubs. if not then we only have one on a big euro club, rafa marquez

I wasn't saying they are big, or anything even remotely close to that.
I was just saying that there Asians that start in European teams.

Metro

[Antonio81]

Two words, European ancestry. South America and the USA have gotten large amounts of players on clubs in Europe because they are able to get a European passport, making things much simpler. The rest of them have to be out of this world to make big teams(Marquez, Suazo, Bolanos).

Asia is in the same boat. African clubs, as someone already mentioned, have connections with European clubs looking for cheap imports.

[jared9999]

Two words, European ancestry. South America and the USA have gotten large amounts of players on clubs in Europe because they are able to get a European passport, making things much simpler. The rest of them have to be out of this world to make big teams(Marquez, Suazo, Bolanos).

Asia is in the same boat. African clubs, as someone already mentioned, have connections with European clubs looking for cheap imports.

what makes bolanos out of this world?

[Guatefc]

what makes bolanos out of this world?

he is a RonalDihno Wannabe/impersenator?

http://file.shanghaidaily.com/News/Image//2007/2007-02/2007-02-13/20070213_306184_01.jpg
same posistion, hair and goofy hairband, and he needs us to be black, and have jacked up teeth

http://www.laprensahn.com/imagenes/fotos/2005/interiores/2852.jpghttp://www.charlton-athletic.co.uk/uploads/charlton24235news1.jpg

[jared9999]

he is a RonalDihno Wannabe/impersenator?

http://file.shanghaidaily.com/News/Image//2007/2007-02/2007-02-13/20070213_306184_01.jpg
same posistion, hair and goofy hairband, and he needs us to be black, and have jacked up teeth

http://www.laprensahn.com/imagenes/fotos/2005/interiores/2852.jpghttp://www.charlton-athletic.co.uk/uploads/charlton24235news1.jpg

bolanos is not at the level of suazo and marquez and there are several other concacaf players better than him like luis perez, bofo bautista, cuauh, and others

[Deathdealer]

There is one HUGE determining factor which the Concacaf members need to improve in exporting players (with the exception of Mexico). They MUST start to compete in larger tourneys (Copa Libertadores, Copa Sudamericana). Costa Rica just started I think last year in the Copa Sud, where they were blown away by Colo-Colo both at home and away. But that allows domestic teams in the Concacaf region to evaluate where they need to improve. There is no way that any top European club can look and gauge just how good you are and then take a risk in shelling out top dollar.
It's sort of like a straight 'A' student in a poor school system that is then accepted into Harvard only to realize he has to take remedial math and english courses just to stay afloat. Before jumping onto Europe, I think that ESPECIALLY the central american countries need to have their agents place their top talent in the top leagues in South America and Mexico. It's a natural progression.
For example, I know that in the Colombian league, we're starting to see more and more Panamenos. Class Panamenos players like Blas Peres, Felipe Baloy, Gomez etc. They then get noticed as these guys play Copa Lib and get an opportunity to showcase. That level of competition also shoes up on NT level. It only makes sense. Yet, where are the guys from El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, etc.
In Colombia, the usual PROVEN sequence is going to Argentina and then to Europe. They know the Colombian player is skilllfull, fast, tactical but they lack the pace and at times professionalism taht you need to be an "A" player in Europe- I mean in Argentina and Brazil it's much more level then in places like Colombia. But in Colombia, it's much more leveled then in many other countries.
Top clubs want to get their top prospects ready to play on the field ASAP, not to have to spend 1-2 years 'grooming' the player on basic stuff. The Central American agents need to step it up and start bringing their top talents to all the top teams in South America/Mexico to get that needed exposure.
It may take some time, many will fail, but many indeed will eventually succeed. But there has to be a plan.



I partially agree and in other things a strongly disagree, Honduras should not be compared to other Central American nations if it has to do with Exporting players. They have been the most succesfull nation in doing so, not even Costa Rica has exported as much as Honduras. But it is still not good enough and thats what I agree on infrastructure and organization of Uncaf should be improved to help these future players. Interesting fact is that you will find Honduran players in other Central American leaugues that we don't use in national team and those countries have tried to change there nationality because they have more talent then their current league players but just not good enough for the Honduras League(Only exception Dany Turcios who is injured).

It is very helpful to go to South America first but not to Mexico, Mexico is the best Concacaf league, yet they tend to over price players and delay there movement to European Leagues, I'm sorry but they do tend to be "COCK BLOCKERS". Honduras has had alot of succes by sending players to Uruguay and then Europe, so I think the formula is South AMerica then Europe, or taking them really young like Suazo and molding there Raw talent there.

If Rueda gets a chance to form a good team with all the talent playing overseas and lets them play together don't be suprised to see a team like we had in 1982. All I can do is pray that Rueda has the right mentality for this team to work and Press and Fenafut lets him work because this will take time.

[Guatefc]

I partially agree and in other things a strongly disagree, Honduras should not be compared to other Central American nations if it has to do with Exporting players. They have been the most succesfull nation in doing so, not even Costa Rica has exported as much as Honduras. But it is still not good enough and thats what I agree on infrastructure and organization of Uncaf should be improved to help these future players. Interesting fact is that you will find Honduran players in other Central American leaugues that we don't use in national team and those countries have tried to change there nationality because they have more talent then their current league players but just not good enough for the Honduras League(Only exception Dany Turcios who is injured).

It is very helpful to go to South America first but not to Mexico, Mexico is the best Concacaf league, yet they tend to over price players and delay there movement to European Leagues, I'm sorry but they do tend to be "COCK BLOCKERS". Honduras has had alot of succes by sending players to Uruguay and then Europe, so I thinks the formula is South AMerica then Europe, or taking them really young like Suazo and molding there Raw talent there.

If Rueda gets a chance to form a good team with all the talent playing overseas and lets them play together don't be suprised to see a team like we had in 1982. All I can do is pray that Rueda has the right mentality for this team to work and Press and Fenafut lets him work because this will take time.

yup thats the best bet for any concacaf player

[Antonio81]

Bolanos is an out of this world dribbler for a CONCACAF player, there ain't a whole lot better than him around there. I agree with Honduras being the best exporter of talent in the region and Mexico cock-blocking its best players.