Is sportsmanship shot in the U12-U16 group?

[shoottv]

I may just be getting old but it seems like I am having more problems with Unsporting Behavior with coaches in the "tween" leagues than ever before.

I've worn one form or another of striped jersey on since college about 20 years although I only started doing soccer about 7 years ago.

It seems like in the past couple of years kids are mouthier and coaches and parents are more verbally abusive to both the kids and the officials.

Now that I'm on the dark side of 40 maybe I'm just looking at the past in through rose colored glasses. On the positive side, the move to "write on cards has made my life easier."

[NHRef]

I find, especially with boys, around U13/14 they really start to test you in terms of dissent. They have played long enough that they think they know all the rules, and they are getting more confident, and defiant, in their personalities.

Around U16 I tend to see it calm down a little, they still test, mostly to detect the limits, then they, most times, stay in them. After U18+ usually not a problem.

[DerbyRam54]

I find, especially with boys, around U13/14 they really start to test you in terms of dissent. They have played long enough that they think they know all the rules, and they are getting more confident, and defiant, in their personalities.
Around U16 I tend to see it calm down a little, they still test, mostly to detect the limits, then they, most times, stay in them. After U18+ usually not a problem.


Spot on there, but they do take on the personality of their coaches as well. I had a match last autumn where my girlfriend made a correct offside decision (player came back from an OSP to play the ball) and I blew for a free kick. Cue the amateur theatricals from some 12 year-old "Oh my god, I can't believe it". He got a brisk hairdryer treatment as did the coaches and the match concluded with nothing more said.
I toy with the idea of taking a U-12 boys team through their teenage years to see if it's possible to turn out players as my hero Brian Clough would have them: a pleasure to referee for.
You do see it though, I did several games for Tech Schools last fall, they were extremely well-behaved and playing for the fun of it. Not great players, but enjoying their football and clearly a good bunch of kids (it was co-ed). But then, their coaches were good sports too, it had rubbed off well on their teams.

[JohnR]

I'm surprised you guys start with U12.

I see plenty of U9 matches with players who have learned to launch themselves into opponents, deliberate trips, basically yellow-card stuff except nobody ever cards the little monsters, along with shrieking coaches who are evidently pleased when their kids maul an opponent because they never complain about that action, only complain when the foul is called.

By U12, some of the better-raised children have learned to behave themselves on the field. My boy is a U143 now and it's better still. I have to say, to me every year seems an improvement over the previous years, I think because the coaches have less influence on the kids (thank the Lord).

[macheath]

I'm surprised you guys start with U12.

I see plenty of U9 matches with players who have learned to launch themselves into opponents, deliberate trips, basically yellow-card stuff except nobody ever cards the little monsters, along with shrieking coaches who are evidently pleased when their kids maul an opponent because they never complain about that action, only complain when the foul is called.

By U12, some of the better-raised children have learned to behave themselves on the field. My boy is a U143 now and it's better still. I have to say, to me every year seems an improvement over the previous years, I think because the coaches have less influence on the kids (thank the Lord).

I see very, very little of this in recreational games, especially at younger ages, although I don't do those very often. In travel games, starting around U-14, a lot of gamesmanship starting up--standing in front of the ball to deny a quick free kick; moving quickly to take a throw-in on a 50/50 (or less) ball, in case the ref is unsure about the call; etc. Less frequently, chippy stuff--kicking at the ankles, etc. Not much in the way of heavy theatrics, but some muttering and eye rolling.

And, of course, the occasional parent and/or coach. Lots of different nationalities in DC, so I routinely get a parent (father) from overseas, tellling me about how Americans--that's me--don't understand the game, they played it all of their lives, etc. Two different Brazilians last fall, an Italian and Honduran in the spring, etc. As long as it isn't hostile, it bounces off pretty quickly. I often tell them that they should get certified, as we always could use additional experienced referees...:)

[nsa]

I see plenty of U9 matches with players who have learned to launch themselves into opponents, deliberate trips, basically yellow-card stuff except nobody ever cards the little monsters, along with shrieking coaches who are evidently pleased when their kids maul an opponent because they never complain about that action, only complain when the foul is called.

By U12, some of the better-raised children have learned to behave themselves on the field. My boy is a U143 now and it's better still. I have to say, to me every year seems an improvement over the previous years, I think because the coaches have less influence on the kids (thank the Lord).
Of course they're misbehaving. They have the Fire as role models. ;)


Much of U10 field "problems" are due to the nature of children. The LOTG stipulate several activities as fouls when done in a manner that is "careless, reckless [think caution], or using excessive force [think send-off]." That is the definition of a U10 player; they are careless and reckless and do everything with the maximum amount of force possible. As refs we don't card them, we try to teach them or send them to the bench for their coach to teach them. OTOH, parents and coaches should know better and should not be allowed to remain at the field if their behaviour interferes with or escalates the mayhem in the game.

.

[JohnR]

Of course they're misbehaving. They have the Fire as role models. ;)

Now, now, who plays Joey Franchino?

I don't actually see U10s as being naturally reckless. I see them whipped into frenzies by irresponsible parents & coaches. When they get a bit older, the kids do not lose their minds in those situations, but when they are younger all the yelling & intensity blows their synapses. They get rabid.

Probably more of a competitive than a rec league thing.

[Ref Flunkie]

I seperate gamesmanship from sportsmanship. I can tolerate gamesmanship much more then I can tolerate a lack of sportsmanship. I think this is happening in all sports (and activities) at all levels where the kids can do no wrong and anyone who says otherwise is obviously an idiot. The kids see this mentallity from their parents and feed off of it, thereby challenging authority. I NEVER remember this being a problem when I was playing. Granted I wasn't on some Youth National team or anything, but we never had players cautioned for dissent (nor did most of the teams that we played), and beyond the mild whining, we rarely addressed the referee.

[JohnR]

I seperate gamesmanship from sportsmanship.

Gamesmanship = diving, pleading for calls, standing in front of free kicks?
Sportsmanship = cursing, telling off referees, yanking on an opponent's shorts?

[IASocFan]

Gamesmanship = diving, pleading for calls, standing in front of free kicks?
BAD Sportsmanship = cursing, telling off referees, yanking on an opponent's shorts?

Fixed your post!

[Ref Flunkie]

Gamesmanship = diving, pleading for calls, standing in front of free kicks?
Sportsmanship = cursing, telling off referees, yanking on an opponent's shorts?


Yeah that's how I would look at it...I'd include being polite and general overall attitude in sportsmanship as well. I don't know, I guess I just accept gamesmanship and expect it at all levels. Being a "Richard" is not something I think is necessary and is more of a choice (if that makes ANY sense)

[mw26]

I don't actually see U10s as being naturally reckless. I see them whipped into frenzies by irresponsible parents & coaches. When they are younger all the yelling & intensity blows their synapses. They get rabid.

I love this comment so much. :D

I don't usually have troubles, almost never if the parents can keep their traps shut. Any real good team will b**** and moan about anything in a big game, like showcases and major tournaments. League games....not so much.

[DerbyRam54]

Any real good team will b**** and moan about anything in a big game, like showcases and major tournaments. League games....not so much.

Do you find that acceptable? As a coach (O-30 women) I don't accept it from my players, they are told to keep their mouths shut and stay focused on the match. We'll dissect the ref's performance after he's gone, if they want to vent, but during the match I expect them to remain calm no matter how lousy the decision may have been.
From a coaching perspective, I look at it like this. It's not so much the events in a match that shape the match, it's how you react to them. Moaning at every decision a ref makes is shifting the focus from where it needs to be. I coach SUMO: Shut Up, Move On.

[Rufusabc]

I think it starts with the coaches first and foremost. And since this is my final year coaching my u14g team, let me be the first to start a trend. WE open the season in around two weeks (if the snow melts) and I will announce at the first game our policy of speaking to officials. If all of us on the board who coach do this, maybe it would start a trend. No bitching, no complaining, just go and play the game. Soembody mentioned Clough a couple of posts back. I don't know the exact quote, but I know he had a fantastic policy about officiating for his players. I'll have to look it up before my first game.

Also, if those on this board have anything to do with their local soccer club, see if they can enact a policy about zero tolerance about officiating. Let's start a trend.

I talked my two young daughters into taking the course along with 5 of their friends this weekend. All of them are between the ages of 14-17. I want them to be able to have fun, run around in the sun , and make some money. One youngster I refereed with last year said the job was ssssssssoooooo much better than flipping burgers. I want them to do it without a lot of hassles.

[mw26]

Do you find that acceptable?

I have high tolerance for momentary outbursts....when I see a real dissent, I will act. I have almost no tolerance for any dissent towards linos, and 0 tolerance for any crap from coaches.

I think it starts with the coaches first and foremost. And since this is my final year coaching my u14g team, let me be the first to start a trend. WE open the season in around two weeks (if the snow melts) and I will announce at the first game our policy of speaking to officials. If all of us on the board who coach do this, maybe it would start a trend. No bitching, no complaining, just go and play the game.

I do this as a coach, and in my role with my club.

But as refs, we really need to crack down as well. I'm fairly nice to the players....0 tolerance for coaches, and the parents as well, if they get bad. Cut out the roots, and the plant will die. (not the proper proverb, but u know what i mean...)

[mw26]

oh, and rufusabc....i coached 15s and 16s a while back. both times i only had 11 players, so discipline was tough. a few kids didnt know when to shut up, but as much as i begged them, I could not get the refs to caution my player (one in particular). Refs must to step up to the plate as well.

[DerbyRam54]

I think it starts with the coaches first and foremost. And since this is my final year coaching my u14g team, let me be the first to start a trend. WE open the season in around two weeks (if the snow melts) and I will announce at the first game our policy of speaking to officials. If all of us on the board who coach do this, maybe it would start a trend. No bitching, no complaining, just go and play the game. Soembody mentioned Clough a couple of posts back. I don't know the exact quote, but I know he had a fantastic policy about officiating for his players. I'll have to look it up before my first game.

Also, if those on this board have anything to do with their local soccer club, see if they can enact a policy about zero tolerance about officiating. Let's start a trend.

I talked my two young daughters into taking the course along with 5 of their friends this weekend. All of them are between the ages of 14-17. I want them to be able to have fun, run around in the sun , and make some money. One youngster I refereed with last year said the job was ssssssssoooooo much better than flipping burgers. I want them to do it without a lot of hassles.

One of Cloughie's quotes was along these lines: "I saw many things in my time as manager, many changes along the way, what I didn't see was a referee change his mind or his decision after a player either effed and blinded at him or whacked the ball into the back row of the stand."
Clough's philosophy was for his players to make it easy for the referee to do his job. He understood that individual decisions, especially over things like the direction of a throw-in, rarely alter the outcome of a match and tend, over time, to even out. But I think more than that, he wanted his players to remain in control of themselves because they'd play better.
I remember doing a U-14 boys game a couple of years ago. I felt that the keeper had just got a finger tip on the ball as it went over the bar, I'd heard the little snick of the contact (and my girlfriend who was watching said afterwards she'd heard that too). I was quite confident in my decision to award a corner kick, but the keeper was quite upset and complained at length about the decision. I explained why I'd called it that way, but he seemed very unsettled.
As the teams got organised for the CK, I had a feeling a goal was coming, and it was not a surprise when the keeper, who otherwise had played well, was all at sea on the play and let in a very soft goal. He'd let his annoyance at my decision break his concentration on the match.

[ref47]

i hope this is the beginning of a good year on the pitch. worked about a dozen matches so far; hs and a tourney. only one real malcontent encountered. and no offensive coaches.

[IndianaRef]

This has been a great discussion. I have experienced many of the same things. As the players get older they do calm down. They and their parents understand the rules more, and they come to understand one of the most important parts of Law 5, "The decisions of the referee regarding facts connected with play are final."

The thing that is tempting not to deal with is while you wait a second or two for an advantage to develop and someone makes a plea and they are right, is to make the call when advantage doesn't happen. I always do, but I hate playing into their hand.

[bluedevils]

He got a brisk hairdryer treatment as did the coaches and the match concluded with nothing more said.
"Hairdryer treatment" -- I love this term, but could you please elaborate on what it means! Is it a British term or your own term or what?

[Clough] wanted his players to remain in control of themselves because they'd play better.
Great point. And what a concept! I wonder what soccer in the USA would be like if more coaches tried to impress this concept upon their players.