Questionable (?) Handling call

[Wreave]

On my local board, someone posted this video:
http://www.dailymotion.com/tag/goal/video/x1e0ed_ramos-disallowed-goal-vs-bayern

He must be a fan of Real Madrid. After further explanation, he has downgraded his opinion from "bad call" to "tough call".

I think it's gotta be one of the easiest calls this ref made all year. That's about as obvious of a handling as you get in the pros. My dad calls it "the Columbian hand trap" after some Columbians he used to play with, but I don't think they have the market cornered.

Thoughts?

[ref47]

are you sure the player just wasn't fortunate that the ball hit his arm and fell to his feet? [smile]

[USSF REF]

It's a foul. He used his arm to posses and redirect the ball into his body so he could volley it...and score.

Good catch by the ref. When I was watching this last night I didn't know why it had been disallowed, but I didn't notice the replay, because I frankly didn't care.

[mw26]

¡viva real madrid!

unfortunate. i didn't see anything in that replay. but it was still clear what happened. great call to be able to catch it

[Sagy]

Are all the refs here in agreement?

To me it looks like a hard call for the CR which could go either way. The player arm seems to be in a natural position and it can be argued that that ball played the arm (I'm not sure about that).

If both these claims are true should it be called a hand ball? What if the same play happens at a lower level with less skillful player?

Thanks,

[mw26]

yes

but in this case, his hand moved with his knee. on second look, from the right angle, that's actually an easy call

[intechpc]

Well all I know is that I saw it in live action (well almost live, on Tivo) and I said right away "That's a hand ball!!". Upon the replay it was a little closer than it seemed at first, but was still pretty clear that the ball changed direction off his arm.

[mw26]

it was....conspicuously inconspicuous

[Wreave]

Are all the refs here in agreement?

To me it looks like a hard call for the CR which could go either way. The player arm seems to be in a natural position and it can be argued that that ball played the arm (I'm not sure about that).

If both these claims are true should it be called a hand ball? What if the same play happens at a lower level with less skillful player?

Thanks,

Sagy,

The issue is not the position of the arm at the time of contact - though it does appear "natural". If you watch the replay, the player actually deliberately moves his arm forward into that position. One can only assume that the intent of that arm position was to help receive the pass, but we don't play with intent - no mind readers here. The forward arm motion was deliberate, thus the hand played the ball.

At a lower level - the low end of the youth age bracket, say U14 and below - this could far more likely be unintentional. At U12 or below you'd have to assume it was unintentional, but you may still penalize the deliberate action. Many refs will take the result - an apparent goal - into account as to whether a deliberate action was trifling/doubtful and should be allowed, or not.

[Alberto]

The quality of the video is so poor I cannot tell if there was handling. You could argue he trapped it with his thigh and his arm never touched the ball, such was the poor quality of the video and the angle.

[mw26]

that would be a very good touch