Trade Reyes?

[Diceson]

Just playing 'Armchair GM' again . . . (I can't help it, I'm in the middle of a great year with my 'Championship Manager' computer game)

We all love Reyes, but is he really necessary? Trust me, two of my favorite players were Benny Iroha and Mario Gori, and Reyes reminds me of their antics.

However, can anyone argue that once Ivanov, Nelsen, and Petke are in place, with Prideaux and Namoff as backups, that Reyes is really necessary? It frees up an SI spot, and it probably releases quite a bit of salary budget. It seems like a very good answer to finding a good striker that RH & Co. have been looking for according to their recent proclamations.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think anyone in the league would trade for an injured Reyes at the moment. However, thinking for 2004, it might be something to consider.

A couple of things to keep in mind while you respond:
- Can you argue with the success the defense is having at the moment?
- Reyes is a 4-4-2 wing-back. RH says he prefers a 3-5-2.
- Nelsen will probably get his green card in the next couple of months. However, it is my guess that Nelsen will be a prime candidate for transferring to Europe in the '03-'04 off-season if he shows well in the Confederations' Cup.
- Stokes will likely show in the Olympics. As with Nelsen, he needs this year to season, and probably will start to blossom next year.
- Namoff is showing well, and is much less inconsistent as a defender this year compared to last. Not a starter, but probably a good defensive line sub in 2004.
- Prideaux would likely be a starter on any other club.
- Reyes has never played a true 'winger' position. However, Bennie Olsen will probably test the waters in England when his contract runs out at the end of this year.
- Brian Carroll is showing that he could be a suitable replacement for Olsen as a winger.

P.S. - I don't mind if you think I'm a "rat on crack" about this idea. If you want to share your thoughts, I gladly invite you to email the radio program at Soccershow1120@AOL, or you can even call in at 703-534-9878, next Monday between 6-7 PM.

[Sachin]

Reyes has a Green Card so there's no SI consideration there. Our three SIs are Nellie, Stoichkov and Ivanov.

Sachin

[Sandon Mibut]

Originally posted by Diceson
- Brian Carroll is showing that he could be a suitable replacement for Olsen as a winger.
I must have missed it when Carroll demonstrated he is a suitable replacement for Benny. Which game was that again?

Because if you mean he is "showing" in practice, I'm going to go with a little more caution. I'm sure I needn't remind you that myraid a DCU player has looked great in training the past three-plus years but hasn't gotten it done when the games counted.

[Knave]

DC United must have at least one pony-tailed defender. It's the law. So we can't trade Reyes.

Plus, he's just about the most exciting player we've brought into the club in recent years. And I actually think he is the attack out of the back kind of defender that Hudson really likes.

Lastly, he's one of my favorite players and I'd hate to see him go.

[Jacen McCullough]

Reyes is a prototypical wing player for a 3-5-2, so if you all are still playing that formation next season with your new coach, Reyes would be a good replacement for a likely departing Olsen. For a 4-4-2, he's a wingback, which DC doesn't have a whole lot of. Ivanov, Petke, Nelson are all center backs. Prideaux is more versatile, but your other options for outside back are a little thin. Either way, Reyes would be one of the better Backs/Wingers in the league, so trading him now is a little odd. Olsen, on the other hand, could be a good move for you all. It would be cold hearted and brutal to the player, but common sense tells you it's not likely that Olsen will be back next season. Trading him and his high salary to an "on the cusp of greatness" team near the trade deadline could net you a good young player or a 1st rounder and change. If it looks like DC is out of the title hunt by the trade deadline, I'd shop Olsen.

[Diceson]

Originally posted by Sachin
Reyes has a Green Card so there's no SI consideration there. Our three SIs are Nellie, Stoichkov and Ivanov.

Sachin

I'm an 'Um-dumb' . . . thank you for the correction.

[Diceson]

Originally posted by Sandon Mibut
I must have missed it when Carroll demonstrated he is a suitable replacement for Benny. Which game was that again?

Because if you mean he is "showing" in practice, I'm going to go with a little more caution. I'm sure I needn't remind you that myraid a DCU player has looked great in training the past three-plus years but hasn't gotten it done when the games counted.

Point taken, and an accurate observation about practice versus actual game time. I admit that it's more of a personal "feeling" that I get watching him in the practices. He's more offensive-minded than Reyes, but has shown very well at accentuating defensive responsibilties.
Trust me, I was fairly critical of Carroll coming out early (he didn't impress me in the couple of games I saw him in college). However, now I'm starting to see the characteristics that Olsen and Convey showed early in their careers.

[McOwen]

why exactly is it "common sense" Olsen will be gone next year???

[Jacen McCullough]

Originally posted by McOwen
why exactly is Olsen gone next year???

Last year of his contract, he's getting back up to speed, he has a stated interest in going back to England, a number of English teams would likely be glad to have him. It's not 100% (what is), but I based on actions, contract status and comments to the press over the last couple of years, I'd be shocked to see Olsen re-up with the league. (same goes for Mathis and Pope for that matter.)

[GoDC]

Olsen is nowehre near ready to go back to England unless he wants to play in the second or third division. It is no set deal he will go back there this year. Platt is a national team coach not a club team coach. I love Bennie but he needs to play a whole lot better to get any interest from overseas. I also see it being pretty difficult for him to get a WP as I don't see him on the Confed Cup or Gold Cup rosters.

That said, who is going to take Reyes when they have no idea how he will recover?? His game is built on his speed. If he loses a step, he loses much value.

[Jose L. Couso]

Originally posted by Jacen McCullough
Reyes is a prototypical wing player for a 3-5-2, so if you all are still playing that formation next season with your new coach...

Wishful thinking on the "new coach" part!

Originally posted by Jacen McCullough
Reyes is a prototypical wing player for a 3-5-2, so if you all are still playing that formation next season with your new coach, Reyes would be a good replacement for a likely departing Olsen. For a 4-4-2, he's a wingback, which DC doesn't have a whole lot of. Ivanov, Petke, Nelson are all center backs. Prideaux is more versatile, but your other options for outside back are a little thin. Either way, Reyes would be one of the better Backs/Wingers in the league, so trading him now is a little odd. Olsen, on the other hand, could be a good move for you all. It would be cold hearted and brutal to the player, but common sense tells you it's not likely that Olsen will be back next season. Trading him and his high salary to an "on the cusp of greatness" team near the trade deadline could net you a good young player or a 1st rounder and change. If it looks like DC is out of the title hunt by the trade deadline, I'd shop Olsen.

Wishful thinking on the trading Olsen part!

"common sense tells you it's not likely that Olsen will be back next season. Trading him and his high salary to an "on the cusp of greatness" team near the trade deadline could net you a good young player or a 1st rounder and change." Seems to me this is exactly how Charlie Sti would have handled things! :D (i.e. trading for someone who would not be back)

Whom may this "on the cusp of greatness" team be!?

What is in the water in Damascus!?! ;)

[geordienation]

Originally posted by Sachin
Reyes has a Green Card so there's no SI consideration there. Our three SIs are Nellie, Stoichkov and Ivanov.

Sachin



Rack him.


:D:D


Smooth move, Dice.

[joshdcu]

Originally posted by Knave
DC United must have at least one pony-tailed defender. It's the law. So we can't trade Reyes.


Do we also have a mullet quota, for when Etcheverry retires?

Seriously, though: I like Reyes a lot, and I hope that DCU doesn't trade him. Also, while he does have some similar qualities to Iroha and Gori in terms of pushing forward from defense, I think that Reyes is actually a much better player.

[Lanky134]

An incredibly silly suggestion. Don't trade Shaft. He'll only come back to hurt you.

[Daniel le Rouge]

Count me in with the "rat on crack" crew.

Reyes was our best two-way player last year, and played a number of spots for us, not just wingback or flanker or main-guy-on-the-right or whatever you want to call it.

I don't see trading that kind of commodity when half of your team is likely to be headed elsewhere in the offseason. You lose one or all of Olsen, Nelsen, Etcheverry and Stoitchkov off of this roster, and you've got more cap space than you know what to do with.

[owendylan]

Originally posted by Diceson

- Stokes will likely show in the Olympics. As with Nelsen, he needs this year to season, and probably will start to blossom next year.


As much as I think Stokes should have played instead of Chino or Olsen at right back I wouldn't put much faith in this either. The reason why Nelsen was seasoned was that he actually played. Hudson has so far shown that when there are injuries in defense that depletes the squad he would rather play someone very out of position than a young defender who would only be slightly out of position. If Stokes is going to develop he needs to play in MLS. I doubt that he will play in more than 5 games unless by the All-Star break we are eliminated from the play-offs or Hudson is no longer coach.

Can you trade a player who is on IR? Since he's basically lost for the season and if we are anticipating losing Nelsen why lose one of our best players? Hopefully he will fully recover from his injury and not have Olsen like problems.

[JoeW]

First, I don't think Jacen is off-base here. I'm not wild about trading Olsen. But it is indeed possible he may go to England. It's not just about the money. MLS isn't easy about 1-year deals for upcoming talent--they like to lock guys in to multi-year deals (unless they are high risk) so they can recoup transfers. So Olsen may feel that now (much like McBride earlier or Pope this year) that he either goes now or he misses his chance for Europe.

I personally think Olsen won't go b/c he wants to be in the WC plans, realizes that being available for qualifying means being in MLS and that's his best shot to be on the team--prove his worth in WCQ. So I think he probably stays. But ultimately it's where his head is at and I haven't talked to him so I can't say if he has a position on this.

As for Reyes, for cap reasons no-one would want to acquire him now. Unless we made it an absolute gift (approach a team and offer them Reyes and a first round pick for cap room in order to be able to sign a player). That is the kind of deal that would have to happen. LA is taking heat, Burciaga just went down in KC, Dallas is struggling and everyone else is capped out. That means they aren't interested in acquiring someone that can't play now(which means next season--which I think was Diceson's scenario).

As for 2004, in MLS that is an eternity. You've got expansion plans. Who stays and who leaves? For instance, if Stoichkov and Etcheverry both retire and Olsen and Nelsen both leave and/or Ivanov turns out to be a bust, suddenly we've got a lot of holes to fill and keeping Reyes makes much more sense. Who the coach is, what formation they prefer--all issues here.

We here in DCU have gotten a bit spoiled. The norm in MLS is for teams to turnover significantly each off-season. LA didn't (and it remains to be seen what happens with them). SJ did (look at the key components they lost). Metros and DCU may be extreme versions. But the reality is that most MLS teams lose 1-2 key/max salary players each off-season and 3-6 other players off the 18 man roster each off-season. We got spoiled the first 4 years b/c Moreno, Agoos, Etcheverry, Pope were so consistent and could serve as foundations for the team.

I think Diceson's basic point though--Reyes is talented and a favorite but maybe it makes sense to deal him--has to be considered. But the answer to the question is determined by factors (who the coach is, who is still on the team, what formation we're playing) that we won't know until much, much later.

[Jacen McCullough]

Originally posted by Jose L. Couso
Wishful thinking on the "new coach" part!


Yes, very wishful thinking. With Adu going to DC in the near future, and Hudson's horrid track record with young players, I desperately hope that DC gets a new coach next season. (BTW, does anyone else find it sort of ironic that you went from one coach (Rongen) who was great with youth, lousy with veterans and horrible tactically, to a coach (Hudson) who's great with veterans, lousy with youth and lousy tactically?




Wishful thinking on the trading Olsen part!

"common sense tells you it's not likely that Olsen will be back next season. Trading him and his high salary to an "on the cusp of greatness" team near the trade deadline could net you a good young player or a 1st rounder and change." Seems to me this is exactly how Charlie Sti would have handled things! :D (i.e. trading for someone who would not be back)

Whom may this "on the cusp of greatness" team be!?

What is in the water in Damascus!?! ;)

To be honest with you Jose, I wasn't even thinking about the Metros. Olsen would fit in there, but short of trading you Moreno back (and that wouldn't happen because it doesn't solve your problem), there's no way the Metros could make that trade within the salary cap without giving up a vital cog. Also, I wasn't thinking of Stillitano when I thought of the idea, I was thinking of Joe Torre. Every year the Yankees bring someone in at the trade deadline who often is gone after the World Series to help out. My thinking was Dallas, NE, or maybe KC. Teams that have good young talent either on the bench or not set as a starter (Eddie Johnson, Brad Davis, Joselito Vaca, all from Dallas fit this mold.) A trade of Olsen for a player like that and a 3rd round pick would be a good trade if it looks like Olsen is going to leave and DC won't win the title. I'm not suggesting trading Olsen now. Everything could be vastly different by the trade deadline (just look at NE last year or DC in 96 for that matter). I'm just saying it's a good idea to keep your options open.

[Jose L. Couso]

Originally posted by Jacen McCullough
Yes, very wishful thinking. With Adu going to DC in the near future, and Hudson's horrid track record with young players, I desperately hope that DC gets a new coach next season. (BTW, does anyone else find it sort of ironic that you went from one coach (Rongen) who was great with youth, lousy with veterans and horrible tactically, to a coach (Hudson) who's great with veterans, lousy with youth and lousy tactically?


To be honest with you Jose, I wasn't even thinking about the Metros. Olsen would fit in there, but short of trading you Moreno back (and that wouldn't happen because it doesn't solve your problem), there's no way the Metros could make that trade within the salary cap without giving up a vital cog. Also, I wasn't thinking of Stillitano when I thought of the idea, I was thinking of Joe Torre. Every year the Yankees bring someone in at the trade deadline who often is gone after the World Series to help out. My thinking was Dallas, NE, or maybe KC. Teams that have good young talent either on the bench or not set as a starter (Eddie Johnson, Brad Davis, Joselito Vaca, all from Dallas fit this mold.) A trade of Olsen for a player like that and a 3rd round pick would be a good trade if it looks like Olsen is going to leave and DC won't win the title. I'm not suggesting trading Olsen now. Everything could be vastly different by the trade deadline (just look at NE last year or DC in 96 for that matter). I'm just saying it's a good idea to keep your options open.

Spot on about the coaches.

I hope we get Adu, and if we do you are absolutely right!

You are right about keeping the options open.

Ben Olsen is my favorite player right now, so trading him would really tear my insides!

[grumpydcu]

Question. IIRC Reyes was signed for two years. If that is true why would any team trade for him? Does MLS have option years in his contract?