Canada Expansion (Montreal/Vancouver) Superthread

[thejackpot]

http://www.rds.ca/impact/chroniques/224449.html

The Article is French (!!) so I'll do a rough translation for all of you. Of interest is the mention that USL Montreal Impact increased their salaries by 20% this year to keep up with Toronto FC in terms of talent, that they still want to be the first canadian team, that Joey Saputo say he would not try to join MLS before the next 3 years and that the construction of the new 15,000 places stadium (with a 7,000 future possible expansion).

Anyway, here is my quick translation:


"Impact want to stay on top"

"The Montreal Impact is not ready to let go of his status of best professional soccer team in Canada, even with Toronto FC entering the picture this year.

"Toronto FC hasn't proved itself yet", declared Joey Saputo, the Impact owner on Thursday while adressing the press to announce the hiring of 24 years-old Brasilian forward Frederico Moojen and of 23 years-old Canadian Andres Arango. "We still are the best team in Canada and our goal is to remain the best in Canada, and if we have the chance to square off with Toronto FC, our goal will be to prove just that"

Saputo reminded the press that the deal that sent Greg Sutton to Toronto FC in the offseason guaranteed that the two teams would play a friendly at some point during the next 2 years.

This would be an interesting match between the Impact, one of the most powerful team of the USL first division, and Toronto FC, an expansion team from Major League Soccer.

Even if MLS is more prestigious, especially since the recent acquiring of David Beckham by the Los Angeles Galaxy, the level of play of the best USL teams is estimated to be pretty close to the MLS teams level.

The Impact also lost defenseman Adam Braz to Toronto FC this winter.

Competition to acquire the best canadian players being more intense, the Impact saw an increase of about 20% of their salary mass this offseason. The Montreal team also signed players under contracts lasting 8 months instead of the previous 6. The team is also planning a tour at the end of the next USL season.

"This has nothing to do with what Toronto FC is doing, said Saputo. This something we ought to do"

"We want to develop our own players, regardless of what it has to cost us."

The Impact is still planning to build its 15,000 place stadium at next to the Olympic Stadium. Construction work should start in the upcoming weeks, said Saputo.

Altough the Impact keep enjoying great success at the turnstiles, Saputo indicated that he doesn't plan on joining MLS before 2 or 3 years minimum.

He said he was confident that his club would continue to attract talented players and spectators, even if USL can't count on players as reknown as Beckham.

He declared that USL teams should worry about the success of soccer in their own city and not worry about things they have no control on going on in other towns.

"We have a lot of credibility in our market. We are one of the major sports in Montreal. This is because we act in a professionnal manner, we attract spectators, we attract the best players and we have a shot at the championship year in, year out."

The Impact also revealed new kits following a new contract with Puma, the official kit provider of 15 national teams including Italy, and of several European clubs.


So here you have it, the bold is mine BTW.

[Hed7181]

You have to respect his attitude and ambition. It sounds like the club is in good hands and is being run with the utmost professionalism.

A second (or third or fourth even) club in Canada would be a fantastic addition in my opinion. Supporters seemed to be in high numbers and the competition level would be very high.

I like what he said about USL owners and teams keeping their focus on developing their own product and appeal. He's right. There's no point in developing an inferiority complex. I think teams like Montreal and Rochester, amongst others, have done well to continue to develop the level of play of the USL and maintain it as another top division league in North America rather than a second rate farm system. Of course, I'm not trying to say the level of play is the same league wide, but I wouldn't deny for a second that the top teams in the USL-1 could be competative within the MLS.

[FireFanInPackerLand]

You have to respect his attitude and ambition. It sounds like the club is in good hands and is being run with the utmost professionalism.

A second (or third or fourth even) club in Canada would be a fantastic addition in my opinion. Supporters seemed to be in high numbers and the competition level would be very high.

I like what he said about USL owners and teams keeping their focus on developing their own product and appeal. He's right. There's no point in developing an inferiority complex. I think teams like Montreal and Rochester, amongst others, have done well to continue to develop the level of play of the USL and maintain it as another top division league in North America rather than a second rate farm system. Of course, I'm not trying to say the level of play is the same league wide, but I wouldn't deny for a second that the top teams in the USL-1 could be competative within the MLS.

If there get to be 4 MLS-Level clubs in Canada, I think it would be time for Canada to start their own league.

[VioletCrown]

If there get to be 4 MLS-Level clubs in Canada, I think it would be time for Canada to start their own league.

Interesting notion. I disagree. If there were 4 MLS level clubs in Canada, they'd be Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal and... and, I don't know. Ottawa? Edmonton? At that point they will have likely tapped out any market that can support a pro team. The USL has tried several cities in Canada, and other than Vancouver and Montreal, they've all struggled mightily. Even Toronto.

Though, I suppose the difference between the Lynx and TFC should tell me something.

OK, I suppose it's possible that, with 4 MLS level clubs, Canada could maybe scrape together a 10-team league. I have doubts about whether it'd be economically viable, though.

All moot, really. We're not going to see that before 2018.

[Daniel from Montréal]

Um, what's with the thread title? Seems to be contradict the article.

BTW, the new stadium will seat 12,500-13,000 and is expected to be ready for the start of the 2008 season.

[piltdownman]

I agree if Canada gets four MLS teams we should get our own League. But as stated by another poster we only have three markets that could ever have a MLS team. I'm sorry Edmonton and Ottawa but I don't think its going to happen.

[steveoleve]

"We still are the best team in Canada and our goal is to remain the best in Canada, and if we have the chance to square off with Toronto FC, our goal will be to prove just that"

I'm sure the Vancouver Whitecaps FO and fans would have something to say about that comment.

[triplet1]

I agree if Canada gets four MLS teams we should get our own League. But as stated by another poster we only have three markets that could ever have a MLS team. I'm sorry Edmonton and Ottawa but I don't think its going to happen.

Fifa might even require it. I am not sure Canada is as far as you suggest from supporting a domestic league. Toronto is off to a terrific start financially and Montreal and Vancouver are solid USL franchises.

Australia, with 10 million fewer people, supports 7 clubs (and may soon have to support 8). Many CFL stadiums appear suitable. If Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver continue to grow and thrive, with a neuclues of three solid clubs, I wouldn't bet against a "C-League."

[Couverite]

Interesting notion. I disagree. If there were 4 MLS level clubs in Canada, they'd be Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal and... and, I don't know. Ottawa? Edmonton? At that point they will have likely tapped out any market that can support a pro team. The USL has tried several cities in Canada, and other than Vancouver and Montreal, they've all struggled mightily. Even Toronto.

Though, I suppose the difference between the Lynx and TFC should tell me something.

OK, I suppose it's possible that, with 4 MLS level clubs, Canada could maybe scrape together a 10-team league. I have doubts about whether it'd be economically viable, though.

All moot, really. We're not going to see that before 2018.

If you're talking metro population alone, then you've got:

Ottawa
Calgary
Edmonton

Those three are around the size of Columbus or SLC. Quebec City and Winnipeg are the next largest but more in the range of Knoxville and Columbia, SC.

Anyhow, the Canadian Soccer League (from the late 1980s/early 1990s) is a pretty interesting test case for trying to have an eight to twelve team fully professional league in Canada. Very unstable outside of the big three who all joined the APSL when the league finally folded.

[Krammerhead]

Anyhow, the Canadian Soccer League (from the late 1980s/early 1990s) is a pretty interesting test case for trying to have an eight to twelve team fully professional league in Canada. Very unstable outside of the big three who all joined the APSL when the league finally folded.


Did you ever see some of those "stadiums" the CSL teams were playing out of. They make some of the worst USL-1 stadiums look like palaces. Hard to have a stable league when there is no decent place to hold your games.

[tfoz]

I think it'd be great, Chivas is there for the Hispanic americans - now have Montreal for French-Canadians. Olympique Montreal!!!

Adds a rivalry and i think they would be as successful in terms of attendance and interest as TFC look

If Canada had their own league, then great, but as TFC have shown, they're a boost to MLS and MLS could use more teams with this promise

[NORML]

Um, what's with the thread title? Seems to be contradict the article.



yup

mods please fix thread title

[triplet1]

Anyhow, the Canadian Soccer League (from the late 1980s/early 1990s) is a pretty interesting test case for trying to have an eight to twelve team fully professional league in Canada. Very unstable outside of the big three who all joined the APSL when the league finally folded.

Really, the CSL seems very similar to the old NSL in Australia. A few of the more stable franchises were brought into the A League with some new, fully professional clubs. Seems to be working.

First things first though. Get Toronto FC off to a good start in MLS, build the new venues in Montreal and Vancouver and see where this goes.

[Tynine]

A Canadian league will never take place. I'd love for it to happen, but it ain't.

Too many things working against us.

- No one in the prairies will pay money to see soccer. I'm not going to rag on my countrymen, but that is pure (gridiron) football land, Alberta has no idea what immigration is, Winnipeg drawing 800 to a CSL playoff game was kinda sad. Again, not trying to rag on them, but it ain't gonna happen.

-MLSE is a horrible ownership group, with a horrible culture. As long as attendance numbers are good (meaning - money is flowing) there will be no incentive for a decent product. The Leafs haven't won a Stanley Cup since '67, and they never will. Why spend the money when the rink has been sold out since WWII.

-More MLSE unlove - The GTA (Greater Toronto) has almost a quarter of the Canadian population (as much as BC/Alberta combined !!!), and they will always have one team. No Yankees/Mets Kings/Ducks will ever happen here, 'cause MLSE says so (way back when, they didn't even want hockey teams THREE time zones away. Golly, I wonder where that "no more Canadian teams 'till 2010 came from")

-Greedy business folks. Saputo (the Montreal guy) has exclusive rights on the province of Quebec until the sun goes nova. He has played the Impact in the city of Quebec, and has drawn really well there (someone got numbers? I *think* it was 11,000, and 7,000 in a downpour). Quebec has no NHL or CFL, and would trip all over themselves for a friendly with a second division French team (and dibs on some french players - think wives and kids that don't speak english).

-Why are there no USL teams in Victoria or Halifax (hell, St. John's)? These are the ideal markets...no CFL, but they can't engage in corporate welfare, like us big city folks. Sure would be nice if sports had something to do with butts in seats.

-The CFL has been held together with duct tape for the last 20 years, our second and fourth largest cities lost teams and no one even noticed. If the three largest cities lost teams (BC was almost gone a few years ago), no one would cry. Soccer could take over, but no one will put in the effort.

Really don't want to sound so negative on my first post (HI, PEOPLE !), but that's how I see things. Best of luck to TFC, and when you never get out here for a friendly (trust me on this), go Caps go.

[falvo]

Very interesting. Saputo seems to have a great plan in place for the future of the club.

[peteo]

I was wondering, how many teams are there in the CHL, as the NHL has enough Canadian teams to form its own league, no? :)

[triplet1]

I was wondering, how many teams are there in the CHL, as the NHL has enough Canadian teams to form its own league, no? :)

The important distinction is Fifa, which I believe must sign off on allowing clubs to compete in a national league of another country. Fifa has allowed clubs from Wales, Monaco, New Zealand to compete in the leagues of other countires because there was no domestic league alternative for the clubs, but as more viable teams emerge in Canada, the more difficult that rationale becomes IMO.

Still, three Welsh teams have competed in the English football system for decades -- presumably it would take more teams then that before it became an issue.

[Tynine]

I was wondering, how many teams are there in the CHL, as the NHL has enough Canadian teams to form its own league, no? :)

CHL is...
WHL - 22 teams, 5 in the US
OHL - 20 teams, 3 in the US
LHJMQ - 18 teams, 1 in the US

These are teenagers playing in rinks around 5,000 seats (some 9, some 4).
Out of all sixty teams, the lowest attendance is....Toronto. They refuse to watch anything "minor". Lowest attendance in the USL, and look at TFC
<img> makes me want to claw my eyes out.

We have 20% of the pro hockey teams, and we'll never have any more. The US teams have barf for attendance (they've all but abandonded the game), but they got the corporate welfare <img>. I'd like to say that's good for US soccer, but the seasons don't conflict (sept - apr).

[shookem]

-MLSE is a horrible ownership group, with a horrible culture. As long as attendance numbers are good (meaning - money is flowing) there will be no incentive for a decent product. The Leafs haven't won a Stanley Cup since '67, and they never will. Why spend the money when the rink has been sold out since WWII. Say what you want about their ability to build a winning team but MLSE has spent money. The Leafs were always (in the past 15 years) a top team in terms of payroll and now that there's a salary cap there's not much they can do. The Raps have always been pretty close to the cap. They've probably got $100 million in salary per year between the two clubs plus maintaining a good NLL team and getting the FC started. Not really cheap

[Tynine]

Hello sir,

Raptors
'01-'02 15 in a 29 team league
'02-'03 13 in a 29
'03-'04 9 in a 29
'04-'05 12 in a 30
'05-'06 29 in a 30

Leafs
'00-'01 8 in a 30 team league
'01-'02 6
'02-'03 6
'03-'04 6
'05-'06 13
'06-'07 10

From here http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/
nhl/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2006-07
(cut n paste, I didn't want to stretch the screen out)