One investor not enough?

[Mack_Dundee]

Am I the only one with some cynicism regarding Jeff Cooper? I understand that we don't have all of the details, and I'm not making a final judgement, but there are some blanks I would like filled in about the man.

A few of my concerns:

1) How much money does Jeff Cooper have? He's a partner in a law firm from the Metro East, specializing in Personal Injury. How lucrative is that? He's only his mid-30s, so how much could he have earned? For more about Cooper, see: http://www.simmonscooper.com/Bio/JeffCooper.asp

2) Cooper's partner, although I haven't heard his name mentioned in a while, is Michael Huyghue. Again, I question how wealthy this man is as well. Here is more on Huyghue: http://www.axcesssports.com/team-michael-huyghue.htm

3) So, if these men aren't worth hundreds of millions of dollars, then who else is in their group? I wonder if big time investors would be willing to pump the bulk of the money into an MLS team but remain in such a background position. Plus, with most of the "money" people on the Missouri side, I'd be surprised if they would sign off on the Collinsville idea. Though, it wouldn't be impossible.

4) If Cooper and his group are not well-heeled, what does this mean for the long-term viability of his ownership? Can he afford to lose money if attendence is spotty for a stretch, which I think many of us probably expect with a Collinsville location? Or, if the league takes off and salaries rise, can Cooper afford to keep up?

Maybe there are perfectly good explanations for each of the above issues. But, if not, maybe Cooper is better equiped to own a lower level club. MLS reportedly has already conducted a survey that determined that St. Louis would support a MLS club, but I would rather not have a team at this point than have a club destined for failure due to ownership or stadium location issues. That could only mean the relocation of the club and make it difficult to attract a replacement in the future. If MLS does become a more successful league that actually begins to turn a profit the league will still have the information about the potential for fan support, plus the large corporate community in St. Louis, a population of about 3 million, one of the key executives in the league is from St. Louis, and the city has a rich history in the sport. It probably doesn't hurt that seemingly every US soccer media personality has had favorable things to say about the potential of St. Louis and MLS. As the sport gets bigger, and if Cooper isn't the guy, then the bigger money guys might get involved.

By the way, is there any American market that has a media more receptive to soccer than St. Louis? I'm originally from Toronto, but since I've moved to St. Louis I travel around the country alot and it seems that there is at least one or two soccer bashers in every market. Chicago seems to be the worst in this regard. But in St. Louis, Bernie Miklasz comments on US national games at Stltoday.com while the other columnists (Jeff Gordon, Dan O'Neil, Tom Timmerman, etc) will feature bits on the game, even the European leagues. The radio guys like Kevin Slaten, Bob Ramsey and Randy Karracker are fans of the game. If a solid club can be put together, and if the club is capable of connecting with the entire St. Louis region, the media certainly can aid the cause and really help grow things locally.

[snead hearn]

Am I the only one with some cynicism regarding Jeff Cooper? I understand that we don't have all of the details, and I'm not making a final judgement, but there are some blanks I would like filled in about the man.

A few of my concerns:

1) How much money does Jeff Cooper have? He's a partner in a law firm from the Metro East, specializing in Personal Injury. How lucrative is that? He's only his mid-30s, so how much could he have earned? For more about Cooper, see: http://www.simmonscooper.com/Bio/JeffCooper.asp

2) Cooper's partner, although I haven't heard his name mentioned in a while, is Michael Huyghue. Again, I question how wealthy this man is as well. Here is more on Huyghue: http://www.axcesssports.com/team-michael-huyghue.htm

3) So, if these men aren't worth hundreds of millions of dollars, then who else is in their group? I wonder if big time investors would be willing to pump the bulk of the money into an MLS team but remain in such a background position. Plus, with most of the "money" people on the Missouri side, I'd be surprised if they would sign off on the Collinsville idea. Though, it wouldn't be impossible.

4) If Cooper and his group are not well-heeled, what does this mean for the long-term viability of his ownership? Can he afford to lose money if attendence is spotty for a stretch, which I think many of us probably expect with a Collinsville location? Or, if the league takes off and salaries rise, can Cooper afford to keep up?

Maybe there are perfectly good explanations for each of the above issues. But, if not, maybe Cooper is better equiped to own a lower level club. MLS reportedly has already conducted a survey that determined that St. Louis would support a MLS club, but I would rather not have a team at this point than have a club destined for failure due to ownership or stadium location issues. That could only mean the relocation of the club and make it difficult to attract a replacement in the future. If MLS does become a more successful league that actually begins to turn a profit the league will still have the information about the potential for fan support, plus the large corporate community in St. Louis, a population of about 3 million, one of the key executives in the league is from St. Louis, and the city has a rich history in the sport. It probably doesn't hurt that seemingly every US soccer media personality has had favorable things to say about the potential of St. Louis and MLS. As the sport gets bigger, and if Cooper isn't the guy, then the bigger money guys might get involved.

By the way, is there any American market that has a media more receptive to soccer than St. Louis? I'm originally from Toronto, but since I've moved to St. Louis I travel around the country alot and it seems that there is at least one or two soccer bashers in every market. Chicago seems to be the worst in this regard. But in St. Louis, Bernie Miklasz comments on US national games at Stltoday.com while the other columnists (Jeff Gordon, Dan O'Neil, Tom Timmerman, etc) will feature bits on the game, even the European leagues. The radio guys like Kevin Slaten, Bob Ramsey and Randy Karracker are fans of the game. If a solid club can be put together, and if the club is capable of connecting with the entire St. Louis region, the media certainly can aid the cause and really help grow things locally.


Maybe Cooper and his partner are speculators who are hoping to flip the team a la Harry Ornest.

[Sport Billy]

Believe me, Cooper's got PLENTY of money

[McGinty]

The "specializing in personal injury" part is misleading. The only personal injury his firm has dealt with has been people dying of some of the nastiest forms of cancer. Still, these cases are major and include huge settlements.

Cooper is involved with many soccer related activities and he also owns several racehorses. He has a decent chance of getting into the Breeder's Cup.

Sport Billy is right that he has plenty of money. I think he would prefer to get other investors involved, but I wouldn't call him a Harry Ornest type that is only looking to buy low and sell high. Cooper is a big soccer guy and someone who cares about the community.

[Monarch Bay Beachbum]

Cooper got his money the same way Peter Angelos got his money.

[denver_mugwamp]

Believe me, MLS doesn't sell on credit. Before Cooper and his pals get a team, there will be plenty of time to check financial statements and audit bank balances. And I seriously doubt if these guys would be looking to get a MLS team without fully understanding what's involved. If a a St, Louis team happens, and I'm pulling for it, it won't be a fly-by-night venture. This thread is a total non-issue.

[Khan]

I went to the St. Louis Soccer United website, and the stadium renderings look very impressive. It sounds promising that there appears to be a friendly local government on board.

Now, I have a similar question to what the original poster posed:

Exactly how much money do Collins and Huyghue have?

It is insufficient for this exercise to state, "They have plenty of money." The former owner of the Miami Fusion had "plenty of money," too. But in the end, it was insufficient to support a MLS franchise.

The reason I pose this question is NOT to troll, and NOT to put down St. Louis. The reason I pose this question is that I'm trying to understand why MLS would not go along with what looks like a great package in Collinsville, IL. There are no numbers mentioned anywhere in the SLSU website, http://www.stlouissoccerunited.com/


and neither Cooper nor Huyghue appear anywhere in the "Top 400 Richest Americans" list, though Uncle Phil, Robert Kraft, The Hunts, and Paul Allen DO appear here. http://www.forbes.com/2007/09/19/richest-americans-forbes-lists-richlist07-cx_mm_0920rich_land.html


So St. Louisians, help us out. Exactly how much money do Cooper, et. al have? [READ: The statement "Cooper has plenty of money" is insufficient information for MLS.]

And exactly how much will the Collinsville project cost?

Again, forgive me if I've missed it, but I've seen no numbers WRT either question.

Thanks in advance!

[gregro]

Am I the only one with some cynicism regarding Jeff Cooper? I understand that we don't have all of the details, and I'm not making a final judgement, but there are some blanks I would like filled in about the man.

A few of my concerns:

1) How much money does Jeff Cooper have? He's a partner in a law firm from the Metro East, specializing in Personal Injury. How lucrative is that? He's only his mid-30s, so how much could he have earned? For more about Cooper, see: http://www.simmonscooper.com/Bio/JeffCooper.asp

2) Cooper's partner, although I haven't heard his name mentioned in a while, is Michael Huyghue. Again, I question how wealthy this man is as well. Here is more on Huyghue: http://www.axcesssports.com/team-michael-huyghue.htm

3) So, if these men aren't worth hundreds of millions of dollars, then who else is in their group? I wonder if big time investors would be willing to pump the bulk of the money into an MLS team but remain in such a background position. Plus, with most of the "money" people on the Missouri side, I'd be surprised if they would sign off on the Collinsville idea. Though, it wouldn't be impossible.

4) If Cooper and his group are not well-heeled, what does this mean for the long-term viability of his ownership? Can he afford to lose money if attendence is spotty for a stretch, which I think many of us probably expect with a Collinsville location? Or, if the league takes off and salaries rise, can Cooper afford to keep up?

Maybe there are perfectly good explanations for each of the above issues. But, if not, maybe Cooper is better equiped to own a lower level club. MLS reportedly has already conducted a survey that determined that St. Louis would support a MLS club, but I would rather not have a team at this point than have a club destined for failure due to ownership or stadium location issues. That could only mean the relocation of the club and make it difficult to attract a replacement in the future. If MLS does become a more successful league that actually begins to turn a profit the league will still have the information about the potential for fan support, plus the large corporate community in St. Louis, a population of about 3 million, one of the key executives in the league is from St. Louis, and the city has a rich history in the sport. It probably doesn't hurt that seemingly every US soccer media personality has had favorable things to say about the potential of St. Louis and MLS. As the sport gets bigger, and if Cooper isn't the guy, then the bigger money guys might get involved.

By the way, is there any American market that has a media more receptive to soccer than St. Louis? I'm originally from Toronto, but since I've moved to St. Louis I travel around the country alot and it seems that there is at least one or two soccer bashers in every market. Chicago seems to be the worst in this regard. But in St. Louis, Bernie Miklasz comments on US national games at Stltoday.com while the other columnists (Jeff Gordon, Dan O'Neil, Tom Timmerman, etc) will feature bits on the game, even the European leagues. The radio guys like Kevin Slaten, Bob Ramsey and Randy Karracker are fans of the game. If a solid club can be put together, and if the club is capable of connecting with the entire St. Louis region, the media certainly can aid the cause and really help grow things locally.

One of the best posts I have seen in the St. Louis forum. You are looking at this from a business perspective as opposed to an emotional one. You nailed it. The thing that could hurt your hopes is not having strong ownership with deep financial resources, not your plan.

This is only my opinion and it is from an outsiders perspective. I think Mr. Coopers plan is excellent and as close to perfect as it can be. You can have the best plan and backing from a city and govenment but that is not enough. You have to have a strong ownership group with the resources to run a successful business over the long term. I am not saying Mr. Cooper does not but I don't think the league is sold on him yet.

From my perspective, albeit, a limited one, I don't think the league is sold on the ownership group. That is what is holding this up. Remember MLS is running a business and is making long term investments. They want owners with deep pockets. You can say that is BS and that is not fair and that but that is the reality. (See Miami Fusion). It didn't seem fair that we were passed over in 2004 but our ownership group was not solidified and RSL and Chivas was so Adrian Hannauer went out and found some solid investors.

I don't think Seattle would have gotten in without Joe Roth partnersing with Adrian Hannauer. I don't think not having Paul Allen was the show stopper but the reason they involved him was more about the stadium. I think not having Paul Allen would have still worked but the fact that he owns the company that owns the stadium. He was icing on the cake.

With that said, if Mr Cooper can get the right folks involved and solidify the ownership group and show the league that the group has the resources to be in for the long term, then you should be in period.

[jasontoon]

By the way, is there any American market that has a media more receptive to soccer than St. Louis? I'm originally from Toronto, but since I've moved to St. Louis I travel around the country alot and it seems that there is at least one or two soccer bashers in every market. Chicago seems to be the worst in this regard. But in St. Louis, Bernie Miklasz comments on US national games at Stltoday.com while the other columnists (Jeff Gordon, Dan O'Neil, Tom Timmerman, etc) will feature bits on the game, even the European leagues. The radio guys like Kevin Slaten, Bob Ramsey and Randy Karracker are fans of the game. If a solid club can be put together, and if the club is capable of connecting with the entire St. Louis region, the media certainly can aid the cause and really help grow things locally.

See, this has to do with soccer's deep roots in St. Louis. In a lot of parts of the country, the old-school macho traditionalist jock types see soccer as something that little kids, sissies, yuppies, and foreigners do. It's not like that here. Soccer is a much more traditional sport here than, say, hockey.

[ndw0f9]

Just found an article that states that Cooper/Simmons has brought in at least 1 billion dollars in cancer lawsuit settlements since 1999. Even if he only brings in 15% of the settlement money as the lawyer (which is pretty low for the size of those judgements), then he is made over $150 in the last 8 years on settlements alone.

I don't think money is the problem here.

[KeeperDad30]

To all of you skeptical about the depth of Cooper's pockets, read these.

The Future of Professional Soccer in St. Louis (http://www.stlouissoccerunited.com/content/view/44/39/) - Pete Hayes
The Telegraph

Stadium of Dreams (http://www.stlouissoccerunited.com/content/view/51/39/) -Tom Timmerman and Shane Graber
St. Louis Post-Dispatch

The discussions with the league, Cooper said, have moved past topics like the expansion fee and on to issues such as hosting the MLS All-Star Game or MLS Cup, the league's championship game, as well as the method for choosing players in the expansion process and acquiring international players.

I really don't think the league would have discussions with investors as described above if they were not very interested in expanding here.

[gregro]

Just found an article that states that Cooper/Simmons has brought in at least 1 billion dollars in cancer lawsuit settlements since 1999. Even if he only brings in 15% of the settlement money as the lawyer (which is pretty low for the size of those judgements), then he is made over $150 in the last 8 years on settlements alone.

I don't think money is the problem here.

That is what revenue was generated. What do you think is net worth is?

[ndw0f9]

No, the 15% was what I was saying he would bring in for himself, not revenue. 30% is probably on the smaller side of what his firm brings in, I'm guessing he's seeing at least half (15%) of that being the founder and all.

I have no clue what is net worth is, but I see no reason to speculate that it isn't enough for a MLS team.

[Khan]

Again, does anyone have an idea as to what the summative net worth of the group might be like?

Without some sort of evidence, it remains speculative as to what Cooper is bringing in. As an extension, MLS is well within their rights to doubt the financial viability of a group led by him.

With a little research, we can find pretty much every other I/O group among the Forbes 400. Or at least family members of each I/O group. There are three exceptions to this:

RSL [Though apparently they have some deep pockets in the I/O group which could probably be found in the Forbes 400],
FCT [owned by a group of Canadians, and thus not on the Forbes 400 list], and now
Cooper, et. al.


This is a fair question on the part of MLS, and a fair one on the part of MLS observers and fans.

[Khan]

Just found an article that states that Cooper/Simmons has brought in at least 1 billion dollars in cancer lawsuit settlements since 1999. Even if he only brings in 15% of the settlement money as the lawyer (which is pretty low for the size of those judgements), then he is made over $150 in the last 8 years on settlements alone.

I don't think money is the problem here.
Three things:

1. Do you have a link for this article?

2. EVERY OTHER I/O GROUP in the league have a summative net worth that exceeds $1B. Each and every one. Even if Cooper won $1B in settlements, his net worth would appear to be miniscule when compared to other MLS I/O groups.

3. Setting aside Cooper for a moment, are there any other significant partners in the group, such that there are sufficient financial resources to absorb the cost of building the project, of absorbing perhaps a decade of financial losses, all while keeping the team afloat?


Remember, the #1 reason for ANY business to fail is the ownership being under capitalized. I want to see St. Louis in MLS come to fruition. But not at the cost of being a potential failure due to undercapitalization of the I/O group.


Thanks!

[ndw0f9]

Here is the link to the article:

http://www.metrounitedsoccer.com/docs/cooper.pdf

Can you get us a link for this: "Even if Cooper won $1B in settlements, his net worth would appear to be miniscule when compared to other MLS I/O groups"

And this "EVERY OTHER I/O GROUP in the league have a summative net worth that exceeds $1B"

Thanks.

[jasontoon]

Again, does anyone have an idea as to what the summative net worth of the group might be like?

Evidently not, and the answer will probably be the same the next eight times you ask.

Without some sort of evidence, it remains speculative as to what Cooper is bringing in. As an extension, MLS is well within their rights to doubt the financial viability of a group led by him.

Yes, speculative. As is the idea that MLS has doubts about SLSU's ownership group. I have no idea if they think Cooper et al. are sufficiently wealthy or not. And hey, guess what? Neither do you.

Everything we're talking about here is speculative.

[Adiaga_2]

Great post to start a new thread Mack_Dundee.

Over the past week or so, I've started to form similar concerns about the potential St. Louis ownership group myself, and you articulated all of my apprehension much better than I could have.

Obviously the Coop is going full steam ahead w/his plans, no matter if he has the financial resources to carry the team through its formative early years or not. I'm sure MLS would be the first to agree that he has a terrific proposal, but the depth of Cooper's pockets might be a ligitimate concern.

Any delay of an announcement about STL landing a franchise may have more to do with that, instead of just waiting for Philly to get their ducks in a row.

I wonder what the chances are of either Dave (Real Salt Lake/St. Louis Blues) Checketts or Stan (Colorado Rapids/49% of the St. Louis Rams)Kroenke double-dipping in ownership in order to give SLSU a leg up?

[Khan]

And this "EVERY OTHER I/O GROUP in the league have a summative net worth that exceeds $1B"

Thanks.
No problem. Scroll up to Post #7. There's this link to the Forbes 400 Richest Americans:
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/54/richlist07_The-400-Richest-Americans-Colorado_7Rank.html

You'll find the information you seek there.

Neither Cooper nor his parter Huyghue appear in this list. The ultrarich tend to have this celebrity attached to their net worth. I'm not doubting that Cooper and Huyghue have done well for themselves. I simply haven't seen any evidence that they pack the financial muscle to sit at the same table as Uncle Phil and the other MLS I/Os.

[Basque21]

No problem. Scroll up to Post #7. There's this link to the Forbes 400 Richest Americans:
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/54/richlist07_The-400-Richest-Americans-Colorado_7Rank.html

You'll find the information you seek there.

Neither Cooper nor his parter Huyghue appear in this list. The ultrarich tend to have this celebrity attached to their net worth. I'm not doubting that Cooper and Huyghue have done well for themselves. I simply haven't seen any evidence that they pack the financial muscle to sit at the same table as Uncle Phil and the other MLS I/Os.

Maybe their both Canadian