Bruce Arena's "Three phases of preperation"

[The Wanderer]

Originally posted by NoSix
Wanderer, Elninho,

Donovan's "goal" was clearly a foul. The ball was still in the air above the Polish player's head when Donovan plowed into him. You have to play the ball, not the man. Whether the Polish player flopped or not is totally irrelevant. The ref made the right call. The US came out flat and lost the game in the first five minutes - they need to learn from that experience and move on...

Well I'll conclude that the ref called it a foul and that we lost the game--I'm way over it. It was a poor call IMHO(Donovan played the ball so much that it ended up in the back of the net!) and you are 100% correct that we should not have given up the 2nd goal. But I would take the game as more of an anomaly than I would the norm when you consider our performance as a whole.

Regarding Arena, I agree that he needs to be a tad more liberal in regards to his player selections. One of Mathis and Wolff should have been out there against Mexico in that game IMHO. But the Bruce does those kinds of things for a reason--to allow the player to get full comfortable at the international level and not have the pressure of expecting to perform making them nervous. Perhaps this is one of Arena's observations(and one of mine also) regarding American players--the psyche of many players is quite fragile.

[Martin Fischer]

Originally posted by The Wanderer


...

Regarding Arena, I agree that he needs to be a tad more liberal in regards to his player selections. One of Mathis and Wolff should have been out there against Mexico in that game IMHO. But the Bruce does those kinds of things for a reason--to allow the player to get full comfortable at the international level and not have the pressure of expecting to perform making them nervous. Perhaps this is one of Arena's observations(and one of mine also) regarding American players--the psyche of many players is quite fragile.

Load of crap. Maybe Wanderer was calling for Mathis to start, maybe not. I know for a fact that he, like almost every other poster in the world, did not call for Wolff to start. Arena's use of Wolff in the Mexico game is one reason he makes $500k a year and we are just Big Soccer rabble. Wanderer is a great coach with the gift of hindsight.

[ursula]

Originally posted by Nutmeg
Arena had his team prepared from the first to the last man.


Two excellent posts back-to-back, Nutmeg, and I've just taken the one sentence that to me most defines Arena's greatest talent. I have no idea how he does it but with the Nats and DCU he always gets his team to peak when it counts. Like clockwork.

One factor in that timing though is that the "regular season" may look messy. Of Arena's three teams at DCU, only one even tied for the Supporter's Shield, yet we speak of the early days of MLS as being DCU's dynasty. Following DCU back then with the games every week one could sense when the team was off (besides looking at the scoreboard) and one could sense, over the course of three games or so, when the team was jelling, getting on another roll for the MLS Cup, the award that counts in MLS.

Similarly with the Hex, he came in third with some really shaky performances thrown in. Arena's team did enough to get by the WCQ's, then peaked where it counted, the WC itself. Now there is a big difference in coaching DCU in the regular season and coaching the Nats in WCQ's: with the Nats, games mean more (fewer games) and the games are widely spaced and one doesn't have the team together in the intervening time. This was Arena's learning curve the last go-round and it will be most interesting to me what (if) he does anything different in his preparations. I think part of the excellent WC performance can be attributed to the team being together beforehand as it seems, based on his history, that Arena is a grade A-worldwide and in any sport- coach at preparing a team for a specific event. Might he have a month long camp say before the next Hex? Use Copa America in a similar way? We'll see.

[Red Star]

Originally posted by NoSix
Wanderer, Elninho,

Donovan's "goal" was clearly a foul. The ball was still in the air above the Polish player's head when Donovan plowed into him. You have to play the ball, not the man. Whether the Polish player flopped or not is totally irrelevant. The ref made the right call. The US came out flat and lost the game in the first five minutes - they need to learn from that experience and move on...

A simple question to consider, if the roles had been reversed and the defender had won the ball as Donovan did would you have awarded a penalty kick?

Just a thought.

To return to the topic, I think that Bruce has essentially done every thing he can. Don't worry about luck, it tends to balance out, sometimes in the short run (dueling own goals in the Portugal game) and sometimes in the long run. Bruce gets the team well prepared which creates confidence. I don't know how much ability he has to effect the the third level of long term preparation defined in the first post.

[jeff_adams]

I don't know how much ability he has to effect the the third level of long term preparation defined in the first post.

Hmmm......there's a post about Arena trying to help with Freddy Adu's citizenship. I would call that "long term preparation". It's unlikely that Bruce will still be around when Adu is ready for the USMNT, yet he considers it important. You have to think and prepare this way if the team is to continue playing good soccer.

[Red Star]

In response to my earlier post jeff_adams wrote:

Hmmm......there's a post about Arena trying to help with Freddy Adu's citizenship. I would call that "long term preparation".

Perhaps you would call that long term preparation now but that clearly was not the type of "distant future" preparation I was commenting on. That information actually goes more to the activities described as "near future" preparation, such as identifying individual players.

The third level of preparation is defined by you in the first post as follows:

Originally posted by jeff_adams


Distant future:

Arena needs to develop a consistant "standard" by which all players joining the national team will understand and be prepared for. Youth coaches need to use the same "methods" of preperation in order to insure easy "adjustment" to the next level. Ajax youth programs do this with great success. By having standardized fitness tests, it's easy to bring players in and see if they are "up to the standard". Using simular vocabulary and structure with allow easier transitition for players to make the jump to the senior level.



As a coach of the USMNT I continue to think Bruce has little ability to actually standardize methods of preparation used by Youth Coaches across the nation. Clearly he has great indirect influence on this, youth coaches will seek to emulate his success. Establishing a "national coaching" system is probably best handled by a different arm of the organization. The advantages of such a system are obvious particularly when we consider the example of Ajax. The USA is of course much bigger so the scale of the task is too.

[SamsArmySam]

Originally posted by Red Star
Establishing a "national coaching" system is probably best handled by a different arm of the organization. The advantages of such a system are obvious particularly when we consider the example of Ajax. The USA is of course much bigger so the scale of the task is too.

I'm not going to pretend to understand the youth development system that needs to be in place for preparation for the longest time horizons, but Ajax seems like a problematic role model. They have been out of serious contention for the Champions League for several seasons now, and their club development system certainly hasn't translated into national team success for the Dutch.

What are the positives you see in their system that we could emulate?

[Red Star]

Originally posted by SamsArmySam


I'm not going to pretend to understand the youth development system that needs to be in place for preparation for the longest time horizons, but Ajax seems like a problematic role model. They have been out of serious contention for the Champions League for several seasons now, and their club development system certainly hasn't translated into national team success for the Dutch.

What are the positives you see in their system that we could emulate?

The primary advantage is simply the existence of a consistent system. That allows the players to know what to expect as they advance through the system and equally important they will know what is expected of them. Coaches can identify potential more easily when they know what qualities are sought after in the later levels of development. I believe a relatively consistent system across age groups is it's own advantage.

When you consider the question over the long term I think that the success Ajax has had developing players is a model for other clubs. Consider the run their reserve side made in last years Dutch cup, semifinals I think? Help, anyone else recall. It is my impression that the top clubs in Europe are littered with Ajax alumni. Perhaps their recent level of success is more attributable to their inability/unwillingness to resist selling their players to higher paying leagues. I am not alone in expecting a good performance from Ajax this year, their recent run in preseason friendlies certainly reflects well. They beat Man U and Barcelona last week. Just friendlies but it is better than losing.

Clearly the Dutch National Team is cursed, but they do not appear to be untalented and of course other nations benefit from having players developed at Ajax, can't think of any examples right here in North America right now since I am at my JOB.

Remember, I am a Feyenoord fan, I don't even like Ajax but to be honest I must respect their success.

I am not unconcerned with becoming too tied to a system. I fear that without some different ideas we would miss out on the unexpected. Soccer in particular thrives on individual genius which can be squelched in a machine like system (he said from the bowels of a bureaucracy. Would Maradonna, Garrincha (sp?)or even Lalas have been identified to fit the system? I fear not. Moderation in all things.

[McGinty]

Originally posted by NoSix


Like everybody else, watching the game live I was screaming obscenities at the TV over how anyone could make such a BS call. But I DO have a tape, and it's quite clear on the replay that it was a foul and the call was the right one.

I have the tape as well, and every time I see it, I wonder how a guy as small as Donovan could knock over a defender of that size with so little force. I know that Donovan has been bulking up, but come on.

Alright, when discussing Ajax's youth system, before you get into particulars, we would probably need youth teams connected to MLS clubs. I know DC United has an affiliation, but I can't think of any other. Oh yeah, and reserve teams would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath.

The one thing the US should take from the Ajax system is to make sure that younger players are trained to play any position, including goalkeeping. Ajax does this so that every player understands the demands of each position so they can employ "total football". The US should do this to make sure they don't have to convert forwards and midfielders into defenders like Sanneh or whateever the case may be.

This versatility helps squad depth and allows the manager to play any formation as well. Look at O'Brien. He can hold in the center midfield, play on the flank, or at left back.

[flanoverseas]

Originally posted by MarioKempes


I dunno about that. Every contact is not a foul. This is not basketball. I don't have a tape, but my first impression was that the Polish player dived. The contact was minimal. I'm not sure about the intent.

Anyway, allowing Poland that second goal was an extreme embarrassment, and one that Bruce Arena should never let happen again. Every contact in basketball is not a foul. A foul is 'contact used to gain an advantage'. i think those are the exact words in the rulebook.

[The Wanderer]

Originally posted by Martin Fischer


Load of crap. Maybe Wanderer was calling for Mathis to start, maybe not. I know for a fact that he, like almost every other poster in the world, did not call for Wolff to start. Arena's use of Wolff in the Mexico game is one reason he makes $500k a year and we are just Big Soccer rabble. Wanderer is a great coach with the gift of hindsight.

No offense Martin oh great mindreader but I was calling for Mathis ever since I saw him in 2000(way before the Mexico friendly). [sarcasm]Martin is a great mindreader with the gift of being omnipotent[/sarcasm off]

[The Wanderer]

Originally posted by McGinty
The one thing the US should take from the Ajax system is to make sure that younger players are trained to play any position, including goalkeeping. Ajax does this so that every player understands the demands of each position so they can employ "total football". The US should do this to make sure they don't have to convert forwards and midfielders into defenders like Sanneh or whateever the case may be.

This versatility helps squad depth and allows the manager to play any formation as well. Look at O'Brien. He can hold in the center midfield, play on the flank, or at left back.

Don't forget that Ajax has great coordination exercises and plyometrics training drills. Also, look at how 85-90%(if not 95%) of their players (or ex players) can use both of their feet without having to concentrate too much on using their off foot. I'm referring to players brought up in their youth system. Also notice how you will hardly ever see a bad first touch. One time I was watching an EPL game when Overmars(ex-Ajax) was playing right wing. Overmars has always been a left winger but in a pinch he was asked to fill in on the right side and there he was taking guys 1 v 1 and whipping in accurate crosses with his right foot. JOB can also strike the ball quite well with both feet and has filled in at right back for Ajax IIRC. Most of Ajax's downfall can be attributed to the Bosman ruling.

Not qualifying for the WC basically came down to the coach's inability to put out a team instead of a bunch of individuals, and that's why they didn't qualify IMHO. They have players with top teams in La Liga, Serie A, and the EPL so talent is not the reason they didn't qualify.

[Martin Fischer]

Originally posted by The Wanderer


No offense Martin oh great mindreader but I was calling for Mathis ever since I saw him in 2000(way before the Mexico friendly). [sarcasm]Martin is a great mindreader with the gift of being omnipotent[/sarcasm off]

Reading is fundamental. Because I am not a mindreader, I conceded that you may have called for Mathis. What I posted had nothing to do with Mathis or what was in your mind. I pointed out that it was a fact that in your posts prior to the Mexico game, you like almost everyone else on BigSoccer and SAG was notcalling for Wolff to start.

I hope the explanation and highlighting help your comprehension problem.

[The Wanderer]

Originally posted by Martin Fischer


Reading is fundamental. Because I am not a mindreader, I conceded that you may have called for Mathis. What I posted had nothing to do with Mathis or what was in your mind. I pointed out that it was a fact that in your posts prior to the Mexico game, you like almost everyone else on BigSoccer and SAG was notcalling for Wolff to start.

I hope the explanation and highlighting help your comprehension problem.

I've been calling for Wolff to start ever since the Sydney 2000 Olympics and his showing against Mexico in those fall friendlies. I never much preferred McBride and that was very well documented before the bigsoccer crash, as was my preference for Wolff and Mathis.

[The Wanderer]

Originally posted by Martin Fischer


Reading is fundamental. Because I am not a mindreader, I conceded that you may have called for Mathis. What I posted had nothing to do with Mathis or what was in your mind. I pointed out that it was a fact that in your posts prior to the Mexico game, you like almost everyone else on BigSoccer and SAG was notcalling for Wolff to start.

I hope the explanation and highlighting help your comprehension problem.

You call what I write a load of crap and then you resort to the old 'you can't read or comprehend what you read' after you get hit with your own medicine. Typical Fischer the goddamn lawyer.

[jeff_adams]

Talking about Ajax youth system.....

What are the positives you see in their system that we could emulate?


Boy oh boy, I could bore the hell out of you on that topic. Let me pick out one little piece to illuminate.

I watched the U-20s under Wolfgang Sunholtz prepare for the Championships last year. There was a serious flaw in their ability to play the ball out of the back. Long ball after long ball flew over the midfield and allowed our opponents to win the headers and possess the midfield (anyone else watch the Toulon Tournament and know what I'm talking about?).

This was not the same way that the U-23 team played, this was not the same way that our senior NATs played, this was the way that Sunholtz wanted to play. It was obvious because the U-20s did that same thing in qualifying and at the Championship itself.

If players are not trained on how to "show" for the ball, distribute and make intelligent passes, then how can we expect them to do that at the next level? We're not talking about a U-12 team here....

If we're going to go to a "target man" offense, then we need to do that throughout the ranks. We have to understand where the "second" balls are going to be landing and we need everyone on the same tactical page. If we pass it out of the back at one level, then "hoof and chase" at the next, we're just asking for confused players.

Ajax has a method for everything, be it drills, fitness, diet, formation, you name it. The U-14s do it exactly the same way that the professional team does it. Even if the youth teams struggle getting results, they don't "mold their own path". This is not to say that they don't allow "individuality". Ajax players have as much flair (if not more) than anyone else. But when they pull on the team jersey, they know exactly what the coach will expect them to do. Their teammates know where they will be and what they will do. This ability for all Ajax teams to play consistently makes for likely success. Young players are easy it "integrate" into the first team because they are very comfortable inside the system. They can make an impact right away......

[Martin Fischer]

Originally posted by The Wanderer


I've been calling for Wolff to start ever since the Sydney 2000 Olympics and his showing against Mexico in those fall friendlies. I never much preferred McBride and that was very well documented before the bigsoccer crash, as was my preference for Wolff and Mathis.

You may have generally called for Wolff to start since Sydney. What I do remember is that by the time of the first Mexico qualifier (as I recall Wolff had been mostly injured since the Sydney games), not one poster called for Wolff to start that game, with Razov and Donovan much hotter at the time. You were not an exception as I clearly recall.

And, frankly, I think "crap" is a good word to describe someone who takes credit for a brilliant move that he never thought of at the time. Using Wolff in that game was one of Arena's best moves and should not be diluted by BS displays of hindsight. I always thought you were somewhat deficient in your ability to understand what was going on in the field, but I never before had reason to question your ethics, or more accurately, lack thereof.

[dark knight]

Fischer, Wanderer - You guys are way past the point of "need to go to PM land" discussion. Feel free to continue who said what and when in a private area.

Thanks.

[whip]

We lost because Bruce Arena forgot a OLD RULE OF THUMB " If ain't broke do not fix it " If we have a line up that whoop PORTUGAL, WHY CHANGE ?

[Martin Fischer]

Dark Knight -- does being rude come with your moderator badge? I would prefer to be referred to in a more polite manner.

It is a very legitimate issue whether Arena's use of Wolff in the first Mexico qualifier was indication of good coaching or bad coaching. Central to that point is my argument that it was an unexpected move. Or we not allowed to discuss the coaching acumen of Bruce Arena as analysis of the USMNT?